Cabinet support.

[Chasboy1]

Hi folks, hope I'm in the right spot. I want to hang some kitchen cabinets on an existing drywall/metal stud wall, however, I think I should install 2x6 blocking to attach the cabinets. I don't trust direct fastening to the metal studs themselves.
I was wondering if anyone had any advice for installing wood blocking in an existing wall, short of ripping all the drywall down?
thanks!

 

[egnald]

Elephant Anchors or SnapToggle, kinds of toggle bolts, work good for mounting heavy objects to metal studs as they have much better shear strength than most kinds of cabinet screws and they are designed so that they can be held parallel to the stud when they are being installed (they don't spin around like conventional toggle bolts). They are usually a pain though because you have to locate the holes in the cabinets right over the anchors. I have heard that #10 self-tapping sheet metal screws can be used to tack the cabinet to the studs first, then toggle bolts are added to increase the load capacity.

As far as I know there is no easy way to install "nailers" between metal studs without removing drywall. I have had luck removing drywall using a RotoZip tool with bits that were made for drywall (and a vacuum attachment to control the dust). I set the bit depth to just cut through the drywall as to not damage the studs (and pipes, wires, and other stuff behind the drywall). This let me remove well defined pieces of drywall so that it could be put back in place afterwards with only having to contend with patching the saw kerf.

Good Luck with your project whatever direction you wind up taking! - Dave

 

[jttheclockman]

Easy to do. Because it is behind cabinets what you do to the wall will not be seen. Wherever you are planning to screw to the wall and what heights, just run a rotozip adjusted to just miss the metal studs in a straight line. Remove that piece of sheetrock and save. Install wood 2 X 4 between studs and screw off to metal studs. Can put on edge or on the flat (if putting on the flat you could bump up to 2 X 6 if you choose) Use a few screws in each stud to secure wood. It basically like adding blocking. Now replace sheetrock you cut out and screw it to stud. Basically what you are looking to do is have a thicker piece of material behind the cabinet for your cabinet screws to grab into instead of a thin piece of metal. They do it all the time in homes and offices that use metal studs. Now you have something to screw into and do not have to try to hit the edge of a stud. Wood studs are different because again there is more meat to screw into. I would however run some spackling tape over the now cut seams to keep any crawly things from escaping the walls. You could run a coat of mud but just one quick coat if you like and do not build it up to throw wall out of level. All it will do is block the holes. Plus is fire code rated sort of.

 

[Chasboy1]

I figure I will have to remove some sheetrock to do it right. A rotozip is a great idea to reuse the drywall piece.
I <think> putting the 2x4 between studs might be better for long cabinet screws, but maybe another piece mounted to the 2x4 on the flat would give me more screw surface. Or, a small jack stud under the horizontal piece?

 

[jttheclockman]

I figure I will have to remove some sheetrock to do it right. A rotozip is a great idea to reuse the drywall piece.
I <think> putting the 2x4 between studs might be better for long cabinet screws, but maybe another piece mounted to the 2x4 on the flat would give me more screw surface. Or, a small jack stud under the horizontal piece?

To me all you need is to put a 2X4 or 2X6 on the flat or even a strip of 3/4" plywood between 2 studs. No need for jack studs. Use 3 screws in each stud to hold blocking will be sufficient. If you want to double up on the backing material and make it thicker is your call.

 

[rherrell]

What's the difference, if you install blocking that's fastened to the metal studs your cabinets are still mounted to the metal studs, albeit indirectly. I would just use sheet metal screws with some toggle bolts for insurance.

 

[Chasboy1]

What's the difference, if you install blocking that's fastened to the metal studs your cabinets are still mounted to the metal studs, albeit indirectly. I would just use sheet metal screws with some toggle bolts for insurance.

However, the mounting screws have more thread contact, the wood is mounted to the stud in multiple areas and the blocking screws will be going thru the sheet metal into the wood.

 

[rherrell]

Blocking makes sense in new construction but tearing up a wall to mount a cabinet seems extreme TO ME.

 

[Chasboy1]

I don't think judicious cutting to allow access but nothing else is too bad. Better than having a cabinet fall down in a year.

 

[rherrell]

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Chasboy1]

Let's just agree to disagree.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I don't like the alternative I mentioned either!

 

[jttheclockman]

If I were mounting cabinets like that I too would put blocking in the wall. otherwise you need to use many screws through the cabinet into the metal studs because I would not trust 2 screws to hold cabinets that are heavy to begin with and then add weight from plates and things. Then add the closing and opening of the doors and vibrations. Having a screw with more teeth surface makes sense. It really is not hard job. Again when you add blocking to the studs you are using multiple screws at each contact point to hold the blocking. At times, the best you can do is catch one stud per cabinet and then rely on cabinets to be screwed to each other. This way here you can screw wherever you want. I vote for blocking.

 

[rherrell]

Understood.

Take a look at these, maybe you'll like them... Togglers

Scroll down the page to "Downloads" and download the .pdf, it explains their use and provides all the technical data.

 

[Chasboy1]

Understood.

Take a look at these, maybe you'll like them... Togglers

Scroll down the page to "Downloads" and download the .pdf, it explains their use and provides all the technical data.

I do like them. I would be completely happy if there were 2 lines of support, since many cabinets don't span 16"

 

[rherrell]

That changes everything!
In that case, if you tear the wall apart for blocking won't it be exposed? If so, that's a lot of work.

 

[Chasboy1]

I've been doing 'judicious material removal' my whole life. That's what Rotozip and Oscillating tools are for!

 

[Scotty]

I would cut out the drywall like described above and replace it with plywood instead of putting the drywall back. I assume (I know, probably shouldn't do that) it is 5/8 drywall.

 

[Chasboy1]

I would cut out the drywall like described above and replace it with plywood instead of putting the drywall back. I assume (I know, probably shouldn't do that) it is 5/8 drywall.

my problem with that is I would be screwing thru the wood into the metal stud instead of the other way around. Unless I made a 'sandwich' with 2 pieces, one behind the flange of the stud and then the second screwed thru to the stud and inner piece.