By Any Other Name...

[Sappheiros]

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say, but I very much dislike when these shops sell pen kits by so many different names. Then, the bushings get different names as well! I know there are charts out there for various kits and bushings and what can go with what, but it all still gets confusing...

What's spurring this is my first ever trip to a WoodCraft store. The nicest lady helped me out and before I had a moment to use my brain, I left the store with a thinner wallet and many kits without bushings. A couple bushings I had already, a few I could get on my next order from CSUSA for their winter sale, but a few I would have to specifically get from WoodCraft (I think). It's all just quite frustrating.

Also, interesting to note, WoodCraft has many locations, but they earn their own keep. When you order online the proceeds go to the main company and if you buy at the store, it helps out their specific business. They even said I could call and place an order to my house over the phone.

 

[jttheclockman]

Not too sure what your rant is all about here because you are all over the place. But if you are complaining about the amount of kits out there and the use of their own bushings then yes. But that fault lies with us pen turners. It is an enterprising market and the players are just playing by the rules. The public wants more, than they supply more. Stop buying them and they go away. All these vendors are competing for your $$$$My suggestion is find the kits that you like to do and if you sell your pens find kits and platings that sell well and stick with them. If you want to try a kit for shear trying then be prepared to buy the bushings to go with them. A small price to pay. Have a very good identifying system set up before you start to use them. Pays off in the long run. Don't worry about trying to match bushings with other kits. That is for people with nothing else to do. Time is money.

Do not forget buying extra tubes for each kit is also a good idea and again keep good records. Small price to pay for success.

I make about 5 or 6 different kits and that is all. I am not into all that themed kits because I think they all take away from the one thing that you supply and that is the blank. Pen turning is only as difficult as we make it.

 

[Cwalker935]

You might want to look into turning between centers, you can do that with calipers in lieu of bushings. Some folks use TBC bushings but you can do without.

 

[Smitty37]

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say, but I very much dislike when these shops sell pen kits by so many different names. Then, the bushings get different names as well! I know there are charts out there for various kits and bushings and what can go with what, but it all still gets confusing...

What's spurring this is my first ever trip to a WoodCraft store. The nicest lady helped me out and before I had a moment to use my brain, I left the store with a thinner wallet and many kits without bushings. A couple bushings I had already, a few I could get on my next order from CSUSA for their winter sale, but a few I would have to specifically get from WoodCraft (I think). It's all just quite frustrating.

Also, interesting to note, WoodCraft has many locations, but they earn their own keep. When you order online the proceeds go to the main company and if you buy at the store, it helps out their specific business. They even said I could call and place an order to my house over the phone.

Generally speaking, because of trademarks, we can't use names for kits being used by other vendors unless we get the kits from a common source. i.e. we can call a "Sierra" style kit "Sierra" only if we get it from Berea Hardwoods who own the name. Hence there are kits in that style found under lots of different names. The same thing applies to many other kits.

If I am selling a kit called ABC and I want to sell tubes and bushings for that kit they will be called ABC bushings and ABC tubes even if they are the same as used by other kits under a different name.

 

[Sabaharr]

Its like a GMC Canyon and Chevy Colorado. Same truck made on the same assembly line but the Canyon cost more and the parts cost more because of the name, but its the same parts in a different bag with a different part number. Bad example but the best I could come up with because I own a Canyon.

 

[plantman]

Avi; Make or buy yourself a set of tapered bushings. Now one set will fit all size tubes !! Take a large set of bushings, mount them on your lathe, and with a metal file, put a taper on them. You could also use scrap ends of PC drilled and tapered, but metal or non-stick material work best. Jim S

 

[ed4copies]

The vast majority of pen kits at WoodCraft are made by Berea. So, if you have the bushings for Berea kits, they will work for the "name changed" Berea kit, sold by WoodCraft.

However, on the subject of names, there was a supplier in China selling a "sierra". They had many problems that were NOT inherent in the Berea sierra. However, even here on IAP, there were postings about the problems, without differentiating the manufacturer--so the Berea sierra suffered from the inferior product, bearing the same name.

That is why Berea tries to defend it's names--cheaper imitations can ruin the reputation of a good product.

Recently, I have seen a source selling "Junior Gent II" pens that did not come from CSUSA or Dayacom. Again, be careful what you are buying!!!

FWIW,
Ed

 

[larryc]

Avi; Make or buy yourself a set of tapered bushings. Now one set will fit all size tubes !! Take a large set of bushings, mount them on your lathe, and with a metal file, put a taper on them. You could also use scrap ends of PC drilled and tapered, but metal or non-stick material work best. Jim S

Tapered bushings - Remind me where those can be found.

 

[JimB]

About your other point, Woodcraft stores are franchise operations. I'm not sure if all of them are but some are. So yes, the franchise benefits from you buying in their store but that doesn't mean they don't benefit from online orders. The franchise may get some payments from online orders that are from within a certain distance of their store.

I believe Rockler also has franchise locations.

 

[oneleggimp]

I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say, but I very much dislike when these shops sell pen kits by so many different names. Then, the bushings get different names as well! I know there are charts out there for various kits and bushings and what can go with what, but it all still gets confusing...

What's spurring this is my first ever trip to a WoodCraft store. The nicest lady helped me out and before I had a moment to use my brain, I left the store with a thinner wallet and many kits without bushings. A couple bushings I had already, a few I could get on my next order from CSUSA for their winter sale, but a few I would have to specifically get from WoodCraft (I think). It's all just quite frustrating.

Also, interesting to note, WoodCraft has many locations, but they earn their own keep. When you order online the proceeds go to the main company and if you buy at the store, it helps out their specific business. They even said I could call and place an order to my house over the phone.

Yep - the folks at the Sterling Heights, Michigan Woodcraft have been very good about sending me stuff that's on that Months sale list. I'd rather give them the business and help them remain in business so when I can get out and about they are still there for me to go go visit and look at all the toys.

 

[plantman]

Avi; Make or buy yourself a set of tapered bushings. Now one set will fit all size tubes !! Take a large set of bushings, mount them on your lathe, and with a metal file, put a taper on them. You could also use scrap ends of PC drilled and tapered, but metal or non-stick material work best. Jim S

Tapered bushings - Remind me where those can be found.

Larry; You can find synthetic tapered bushings at Wood Turnings .com for $6.95 in a pack of 4. They are made by Stick Fast Adhesives and can be used for CA finishing as it will not stick to the bushings. Also you can buy Delrin in rod form and make your own, or aluminum rod. Just drill and taper them yourself on a wood or metal lathe. The big advantage of using tapered bushings is of course the fact that one size fits all. Another being that you don't need a slip fit into your tube as only the inside rim of the tube comes in contact with the tapered bushing making a perfectly tight fit. Also if you use bushings that are not non--stick, you will have little or no trouble removing them without damaging your blanks. There are also members on this site that will make them for you, or I am sure, other venders here that sell them. Jim S

 

[dthayer]

Avi,

I get your frustration, I share it. I understand the need for different kits from different manufacturers having different names even if they are the same design. It's the bushing that is the confusing part.

When ordering a kit I've never made before, I tend to just make a cursory check of the bushings I have if I know it's similar to another kit I've done. If it doesn't look like I have bushings that will fit I'll just order the ones specifically for the kit. Since I don't spend a lot of time with charts and calipers, I'm sure I'll get duplicates at some point (if I haven't already).

Sure, it would be great in a perfect world if you could go to a site, order a kit, and go to the listing for the bushings and see a list of all of the other kits they would work with. Problem is, we would end up paying for it because it would be a BIG pain for the manufacturers to keep track of (if they even could) so the kits would have to be more expensive due to the added admin costs of keeping the lists. Also, I don't even know if that would be possible because of trademarks and such... (And, if there was such a list on any manufacturer's site, I'm not sure I'd trust it. )

Anyway, short story long (I tend to do that a lot :redface, I share the frustration but don't see an easy way around it. Buying a duplicate set of bushings once in a while is probably cheaper than any attempted solution...

 

[plantman]

Avi,

I get your frustration, I share it. I understand the need for different kits from different manufacturers having different names even if they are the same design. It's the bushing that is the confusing part.

When ordering a kit I've never made before, I tend to just make a cursory check of the bushings I have if I know it's similar to another kit I've done. If it doesn't look like I have bushings that will fit I'll just order the ones specifically for the kit. Since I don't spend a lot of time with charts and calipers, I'm sure I'll get duplicates at some point (if I haven't already).

Sure, it would be great in a perfect world if you could go to a site, order a kit, and go to the listing for the bushings and see a list of all of the other kits they would work with. Problem is, we would end up paying for it because it would be a BIG pain for the manufacturers to keep track of (if they even could) so the kits would have to be more expensive due to the added admin costs of keeping the lists. Also, I don't even know if that would be possible because of trademarks and such... (And, if there was such a list on any manufacturer's site, I'm not sure I'd trust it. )

Anyway, short story long (I tend to do that a lot :redface, I share the frustration but don't see an easy way around it. Buying a duplicate set of bushings once in a while is probably cheaper than any attempted solution...

Dirk; That magic list you are looking for is on the right side of the Home page of this site !! " Bushings & Tubes - Dimensions and Kit Suppliers ". The list will give you everything you are looking for, you just have to look in the correct place, or ask someone where to find it. Some members of our site put a lot of time and effort into this, and I think they can be trusted !! A set of bushings usually will run you $5-6 per kit and up. The tapered bushings I listed above run $6.95 for a set of 4. That will be the last pen kit bushings you will have to buy as they will fit all pen tubes. They will also allow you to turn a single barrel pen, a two barrel pen, or a kit with two different size tubes at the same time. Plus CA won't stick to them, making for easy removal. Actually you can make your own from scrap material lying around you shop for just an investment in time, no money. So there are solutions out there . Carefully read the answers to the question that has been asked, and look for information that is already on this site. I have never found a question or problem that someone on this site, or many, have not had a answer or solution for. Jim S

 

[Sappheiros]

I appreciate all the perspectives and I was having a little bit of a rant. I was a little frustrated that the WoodCraft closest to me is about 30 miles away and not an area I would typically drive to. I spent way more than I thought I was going to and then when it hit me that I hadn't gotten the bushing... You know. I don't have time to make all my kits at once, so it's not something to worry about really. Thanks for putting up with me, though.

 

[dthayer]

Dirk; That magic list you are looking for is on the right side of the Home page of this site !! " Bushings & Tubes - Dimensions and Kit Suppliers ". The list will give you everything you are looking for, you just have to look in the correct place, or ask someone where to find it. Some members of our site put a lot of time and effort into this, and I think they can be trusted !! A set of bushings usually will run you $5-6 per kit and up. The tapered bushings I listed above run $6.95 for a set of 4. That will be the last pen kit bushings you will have to buy as they will fit all pen tubes. They will also allow you to turn a single barrel pen, a two barrel pen, or a kit with two different size tubes at the same time. Plus CA won't stick to them, making for easy removal. Actually you can make your own from scrap material lying around you shop for just an investment in time, no money. So there are solutions out there . Carefully read the answers to the question that has been asked, and look for information that is already on this site. I have never found a question or problem that someone on this site, or many, have not had a answer or solution for. Jim S

Jim, thanks.

I'm aware of that great resource and it is what I use to do my quick checking. And I absolutely trust the information there. But I don't sit there and go through all of the entries in all of the documents to see if there are some other bushings that I may have that would fit a new kit. If I think something I already have may work, I'll check it out, otherwise I just get the new bushings.

The "magic" list would be something that I could use to look up a kit name and see a list of all the bushings from various manufacturers that would work with that kit. The point I was trying (I guess unsuccessfully -- sorry :redface to make is that I think it would be impossible for anyone to maintain something like that (and I'm not even sure it could be done...). I certainly wouldn't want a mfg'er to maintain it and then pass the costs of doing so on -- that would be the list I wouldn't trust since they would have no motivation to put much effort into it. And, in the long run it would just be cheaper to buy the bushings.

Anyway, I'll have to check into those tapered bushings. Thanks for the tip!

 

[dthayer]

I appreciate all the perspectives and I was having a little bit of a rant. I was a little frustrated that the WoodCraft closest to me is about 30 miles away and not an area I would typically drive to. I spent way more than I thought I was going to and then when it hit me that I hadn't gotten the bushing... You know. I don't have time to make all my kits at once, so it's not something to worry about really. Thanks for putting up with me, though.

Avi,

If I had a nickle for every kit I bought and forgot to think about bushings... I'd be able to buy a few more kits!! I get your frustration -- nothing to "put up with".

Besides, it's an excuse to go back to the store sometime and "browse" some more!! :biggrin:

 

[JimB]

Avi - I just posted a thread yesterday that has a solution to part of your problem.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f19/solution-matching-bushings-kits-137099/

 

[Smitty37]

Its like a GMC Canyon and Chevy Colorado. Same truck made on the same assembly line but the Canyon cost more and the parts cost more because of the name, but its the same parts in a different bag with a different part number. Bad example but the best I could come up with because I own a Canyon.

That's why I have a Colorado....