Stephanie
Member
I bought a bunch of different pen kits. Looking at the directions that come with each one, am I to understand that each pen type requires a different set of bushings?
Bushings...
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jttheclockman
Member
Yes and no. There are some kits that use the same bushings. Usually when you buy from a vendor they will list different kits for that set of bushings. With kits constantly changing the list that is in the library is probably the latest but am sure new kits have arrived on the scene. If you click on Resorces you can scan the library here and see the different charts.
Now with that said there will be many that will tell you to skip the bushings and turn between centers (TBC abreviation) but I will let them explain.
My suggestion is for every new kit buy the bushings and mark them for future use. Do not worry about if they can be used for other kits
Stephanie
On a forum such as this one, you don't delete your question once it's answered. It stays there as part of the collective knowledge of the community. If everyone deleted their question once it was answered, we would not have 1.8 million posts full of great information!
I'm going to restore your original post. Otherwise the reply doesn't really make sense.
Jeff
Stephanie
Member
I get that. I changed this not fast enough before someone responded. I didn't want to be that person asking the same question that has been asked several times before. Still trying to find my way around this place. Everyone is so kind and helpful.
penicillin
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 1,036
I still use bushings, and wanted to remind Stephanie and others:
- As you learned, you need different bushings for each pen "family". Sometimes I avoid buying a pen kit for a single pen, because the extra cost of those unique bushings for the one pen makes the overall cost not worth it to me. Maybe I should be more willing to turn "by measure" using calipers, but so far, I haven't bothered to try a pen without bushings.
- It is very important to keep bushing sets separate from one another. If you mix the bushings together, it is a very difficult task to figure out which is which. In case it matters, I keep bushings in their original plastic envelopes, stored "file cabinet style" in a small CD holder. I never take out more than one bushing set at a time.
- Buy two additional sets of inexpensive slimline bushings (3 in a pack). You will want them as spacers. Sometimes a slimline bushing on the left side can you "working space" so you can relax and feel more comfortable with your turning tools close to the left side. Slimline bushings have a habit of disappearing in the sawdust like socks in the laundry, so it helps to have a few extra around. A strong magnet helps you find them if they get sucked up into your shop vac.
- Buy one or two sets of non-stick plastic bushings. They make it much easier to separate the bushings from the finished pen blanks and keep your finish off the metal bushings. I switch to them before sanding, too. It prevents you from sanding off bits of metal and darkening your wood. The danger there is keeping the sandpaper flat on the pen blank and not allowing the sandpaper to curl over the edges. Avoid rounding the edges and ruining the careful match you made with the metal bushings.
- The IAP app for iPhone and Android has a very helpful, searchable list of bushing sizes for many pen kits, and costs $1. It can be used in many ways, and is well worth the expense. The drill bit converter feature is worth the price of admission alone - it converts metric, standard, and standard fractions and shows you the error difference, something I have never seen in any other program. Very handy!
It's a fact of life that similar questions get asked on forums, and we don't mind!
Don't hesitate to ask. Someone will either answer directly or point you in a good direction.
jjjaworski
Member
Stephanie,
I store my bushings in small plastic containers- like old pill bottles and film canisters( dating myself with this).
I wrap some masking tape on them and label the pen kit they are for on it.
Eventually, you will accumulate quite a few so some storage system that works for you is something to think about.
I store my bushings in small plastic containers- like old pill bottles and film canisters( dating myself with this).
I wrap some masking tape on them and label the pen kit they are for on it.
Eventually, you will accumulate quite a few so some storage system that works for you is something to think about.
Stephanie
Member
Good suggestion. I just went and bought 9 sets to go with all of the pen kits I bought. I had no idea that different pen types require different bushings. Learning as I go.
howsitwork
Member
Well worth buying a set of cheap digital vernier calipers to give you accurate measure of the bushing size. Write this in the storage can ( I too use film cans but if you know a friendly chemist or diabetic the cases that hold glucose test strips are Perfect ! ).
This way you can check by measuring and use the exact or closest set ofmbush8ngs to the ACTUAL components of the pen if you wish. Plus if you mix em up , you can sort em out ! Don't ask how I know that
I
leehljp
Member Liaison
This is one of the GREAT things about this forum and the people here. Most of us don't mind answering it over and over. We realize that there are those that are "search" challenged (always using the wrong key word), and this being the friendly and helpful forum it is, we don't want to run the next Rembrandt away before they can develope their style.
It bothers me personally on other forums when some, en-mass, reply with "do a search". We are here to help, to dialog. Even some of us older ones have learned that we can learn from the younger bright minds not limited by our constraints. And dialog builds this trust across age, sex, race and culture.
Keep asking!
But Searching will often give the history behind a subject on this forum.
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FGarbrecht
Member
As John suggested above, many of us said NO to bushings because of the expense and other problems associated with their use. Here are some of the problems I have had using bushings: 1) they aren't cheap 2) some are not true 3) some are not sized accurately enough 4) bushing metal can contaminate your wood / finish 5) one set I bought for a specific pen was just wrong and didn't work at all -- the vendor screwed up and it took forever to get it sorted out. 6) they stick to your pen during CA finishing. I acquired a pen mandrel and a bunch of bushings in the beginning but haven't used any of them in a very long time. For the cost of a couple bushings sets you can get a cheap 6" digital caliper and a pair of centers and just do TBC.
Anyway, good luck with your turning and welcome!
Anyway, good luck with your turning and welcome!
egnald
Member
I get a bead storage box from our local Walmart to store my bushings in. It is a clear plastic box with 12 individual round plastic jars inside. I pop a label on the side and top of each jar to identify which pen kit they go with. (They are just big enough to store 2 sets of bushings in each jar which is perfect for me because I always keep my "active" bushings in a jar along with a new set still in the baggie they came in. That way I have a pristine reference set and a backup for when I decide it is time to trash my active bushings and order replacements. - Dave
Attachments
jttheclockman
Member
As mentioned a good digital set of calipers is a must if you want to hone your pen turning craft. What I do is have a copy of the instructions for all kits I make and keep in a folder. On each set I write the dimensions of each kit part and also the dimensions of the bushings needed. This gives me the range of dimentions I need to shoot for when spinning the blanks down. Keep checking with calipers when I get close. I only use the bushings as a guide to get me close. I then switch to a TBC set of cones or devices to hold the blank as I spin down to proper size. You will work out a system for yourself the more you turn.
penicillin
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 1,036
I still use bushings, but I also check my work with calipers. You can use them to compare the turned pen blank with the actual pen parts in the pen kit. Bushings notwithstanding, it is the actual sizes of the parts in the pen kit that are the ultimate determiner for your work.
I like digital calipers the best, but some people prefer the analog (dial) type.
Sometimes the caliper type doesn't matter if you are simply comparing the size of two items. You set the calipers to the size you want, and then test it on the piece you are turning or sanding to see how far you have to go.
I like digital calipers the best, but some people prefer the analog (dial) type.
Sometimes the caliper type doesn't matter if you are simply comparing the size of two items. You set the calipers to the size you want, and then test it on the piece you are turning or sanding to see how far you have to go.
Stephanie
Member
I love this idea. I am half crazy about wanting things organized. I hate it when I can't find something or have to open a bunch of boxes/drawers/containers to find what I am looking for. Label happy also.
egnald
Member
I'm on the same page with organization and labeling. I even put each one of my pen sized drill bits in the small plastic tubes from PSI and put a printed label on each of the 4 sides, then keep them all in another plastic storage box.
I really like the system that Bob Blanford aka RGB Woodturner came up with recently. He uses plastic tubes for his bushings and fits them nicely into a drawer in his shop. If I had the room for a drawer like that I would be storing my bushings and drill bits in something like that. Here is a link to Bob's YouTube: RGB WoodTurner
Regards - Dave
hooked
Member
This is not my idea. I found it on here a couple of years ago. These have been working well for me from harbor freight.
www.harborfreight.com
25 Box Storage System
Amazing deals on this 25 Box Storage System at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
@hooked
Brilliant idea for bushing storage ..... if you MUST use bushings ( I do realize they are good in the beginning ) ....
But, I estimate that you have over $250 worth of bushings .... at least .... in those two large plastic boxes ....
I am NOT KNOCKING this .... please don't get me wrong ....
But .... since I stopped using bushings completely, I have been much happier with the resulting pens.
I use digital calipers, measure frequently as I approach the correct diameter, and turn down to diam. of about 0.006" larger than mating pen parts.
NOT KNOCKING using bushings if you feel you have to .... just stating what works for me. . Hope you understand where I'm coming from.
I use a DEAD Center in the head-stock and a LIVE Center in the tail-stock. . . Blank firmly held in-between . . . No bushings and no mandrel.
Brilliant idea for bushing storage ..... if you MUST use bushings ( I do realize they are good in the beginning ) ....
But, I estimate that you have over $250 worth of bushings .... at least .... in those two large plastic boxes ....
I am NOT KNOCKING this .... please don't get me wrong ....
But .... since I stopped using bushings completely, I have been much happier with the resulting pens.
I use digital calipers, measure frequently as I approach the correct diameter, and turn down to diam. of about 0.006" larger than mating pen parts.
NOT KNOCKING using bushings if you feel you have to .... just stating what works for me. . Hope you understand where I'm coming from.
I use a DEAD Center in the head-stock and a LIVE Center in the tail-stock. . . Blank firmly held in-between . . . No bushings and no mandrel.
Stephanie
Member
That is another great ideal.This is not my idea. I found it on here a couple of years ago. These have been working well for me from harbor freight.
25 Box Storage System
Amazing deals on this 25 Box Storage System at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
View attachment 303227
hooked
Member
Yes. This was an early stage "learning experience," and I have since moved on to TBC, but I still use bushings on an adapter as a guide to get close before I remove them on unfamiliar kits. This was also a stage when I would buy every pen kit I came across to try. Now I have learned what kits I like to use and have been getting enough experience with them to TBC without the bushings. It all comes down to comfort and the learning process.
If you really want to get a laugh at a wasted "learning" expense, you should see my collection of Whiteside pen mill shafts that I bought for each drill bit size.
My biggest learning curve moment was paying more attention to the IAP than the guys at my Woodcraft store.
greenacres2
Member
@hooked
Thanks for your kind and understanding reply !! . I was hoping to not give any offense and I am pleased that you took none !!
I fully understand the learning experiences and the other things you said.
I, too, spent heaps of $$$ based on what I was told by sales people before I found my way to IAP and got listening to the "horses' mouths" !!!
Probably, I could recoup some of the $$$ by advertising the bushings that I no longer use .... and the boxes I store them in !!!
At this stage, am also glad that I did not spend any additional money for TBC bushings ... but, I might be missing something ... have never tried them
Thanks for your kind and understanding reply !! . I was hoping to not give any offense and I am pleased that you took none !!
I fully understand the learning experiences and the other things you said.
I, too, spent heaps of $$$ based on what I was told by sales people before I found my way to IAP and got listening to the "horses' mouths" !!!
Probably, I could recoup some of the $$$ by advertising the bushings that I no longer use .... and the boxes I store them in !!!
At this stage, am also glad that I did not spend any additional money for TBC bushings ... but, I might be missing something ... have never tried them
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Stephanie
Member
I just died and went to heaven. I watch his videos all the time. Not sure how I missed this one. Thank you! I bought a toolbox bottom specifically for my turning stuff. This will be perfect.
Stephanie
Member
That sounds complicated.
jttheclockman
Member
Not complicated at all. If you are going to take your pen turning to a level of great craftsmanship then working with calipers is a must. Bushings are a starting point and every set may not measure out to be the same. The same thing goes with kits. Depending on the amount of plating that was applied on the run of kits when they were made may differ than the next run. People who buy pens for collecting will run their fingers over the pen and be able to feel the transition from components to blank. You want that transition to be seamless. Now not knocking anyone's work here but from photos I see an awful lot of blanks that either were not turned down enough or turned down too much and I know that transition point will not feel good. Just saying. Most times nothing gets said and yes they look good but you can see right away. Just my thoughts. Good luck as you progress in this hobby.That sounds complicated.
jttheclockman
Member
Mal just one factor that comes hugely in play with your method is pressure. If people are going to try your method than you need to be aware that too much pressure to hold that blank from spinning will flare the ends of the tube and can have an effect on the fit of components. This will happen alot more so when first turning a blank down because you probably start out with the blank square and having the blank stop due to the tool will cause you to tighten even more the tailstock. So not knocking your method but it also comes with a caveat too.
@jttheclockman
Not knocking what you said, John, which is certainly a valid concern and worth a word of warning to a beginner with TBC ..... but .....
I have never, in 8 years, had a problem with end flaring of the brass tube ... a very slight indication, but only a small fraction of the tube wall thickness.
No flaring of any consequence whatsoever with zero implications for pressing in pen parts reliably.
There is really NO FLARING ... just evidence of the steel centers contacting the softer brass and a compression scar but not flaring
Bear in mind these precautions that I take.
1) turn the blank round ( TBC !! ) before doing ANYTHING else
2) cut the blank to length ( about 1/4" over, or less )
3) accurately square the ends of the cut piece
4) drill the hole for the brass tube ( on the lathe )
4) trim the piece accurately to the length of the brass tube ( on the lathe )
5) glue in the brass tube being very careful to position the brass tube flush with the ends ... only now does the TBC encounter brass tube
6) mount the tubed blank between centers being careful to not over-pressure the blank
7) turn to diameter and shape desired
Also bear in mind that the lathe is a metal-working lathe and I do not turn at high speed .... probably about 1000-1400 RPM at most
Not knocking what you said, John, which is certainly a valid concern and worth a word of warning to a beginner with TBC ..... but .....
I have never, in 8 years, had a problem with end flaring of the brass tube ... a very slight indication, but only a small fraction of the tube wall thickness.
No flaring of any consequence whatsoever with zero implications for pressing in pen parts reliably.
There is really NO FLARING ... just evidence of the steel centers contacting the softer brass and a compression scar but not flaring
Bear in mind these precautions that I take.
1) turn the blank round ( TBC !! ) before doing ANYTHING else
2) cut the blank to length ( about 1/4" over, or less )
3) accurately square the ends of the cut piece
4) drill the hole for the brass tube ( on the lathe )
4) trim the piece accurately to the length of the brass tube ( on the lathe )
5) glue in the brass tube being very careful to position the brass tube flush with the ends ... only now does the TBC encounter brass tube
6) mount the tubed blank between centers being careful to not over-pressure the blank
7) turn to diameter and shape desired
Also bear in mind that the lathe is a metal-working lathe and I do not turn at high speed .... probably about 1000-1400 RPM at most
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jttheclockman
Member
Not knocking what you are saying but you need to be careful when telling people about turning between centers. It may work for you but it comes with care. Others may not realize the concerns. I am glad you never had any failures. I never had a failure using bushings either so it is just methods.
Well, John ...... I am not going to argue with you, but from my perspective, TBC is by far the better method.
I have been doing it for eight years and the satisfaction I get from better fit and appearance is a real joy to me.
YES, you have to be careful ..... whatever turning method you use.
But, YES ..... new pen-turners need to be warned ALSO about the possible shortcomings of using bushings, not to mention the expense and organization
I have been doing it for eight years and the satisfaction I get from better fit and appearance is a real joy to me.
YES, you have to be careful ..... whatever turning method you use.
But, YES ..... new pen-turners need to be warned ALSO about the possible shortcomings of using bushings, not to mention the expense and organization
PatrickR
Member
I'm one who went bushing-less for awhile but found the flaring and thinning of the tube ends to be a problem. Now I tbc with bushings and don't have to worry about it. It has been the best option for me.
jttheclockman
Member
No arguing Mal, just points and developing of the thread and adding conversation. As with TBC there are also warnings that come with when using bushings. Pressure is also a factor even when using a mandrel. We all try different things over time and end up with what works best for ourselves. People just starting out need to know some of the pitfalls when things are suggested. Bushings can be expensive and I am sure I spent well over $500 on bushings over the years but what is that compared to kit prices. Heck 5 highend kits cost that. It is a spendable that needs to be factored in.
pshrynk
Member
I like to use the bushings to get me close but no cigar, then finish TBC, That precludes my inherent laziness for using the calipers often enough from having dozens of &**%$&ing over turns...