Best Segmenting Saw?

[Ward]

I have recently started making my own segmented pen blanks. Cutting pen blanks lenghtwise in straight halves or thirds has been a challenge with a band saw. I am exploring a more precise table saw for cutting blank sized pieces of wood. The "job site" portable table saws look too large and noisey and are probably an overkill for my smaller jobs. I would like feedback and/or recommendations for a smaller, quiet precision saw suitable for close pen blank cuts. Thanks in advance, Ward

 

[magpens]

I would recommend the Byrnes table saw ... I have one ... expensive but well worth it, IMHO !!

Byrnes Model Machines - Thickness Sander

Byrnes Model Machines produces precision-engineered miniature Table Saws and Thickness Sanders for Ship Modelers, Dollhouse Makers and Model Railroad Builders; every machine has an accuracy measured in thousandths of an inch.

www.byrnesmodelmachines.com

 

[jttheclockman]

I have recently started making my own segmented pen blanks. Cutting pen blanks lenghtwise in straight halves or thirds has been a challenge with a band saw. I am exploring a more precise table saw for cutting blank sized pieces of wood. The "job site" portable table saws look too large and noisey and are probably an overkill for my smaller jobs. I would like feedback and/or recommendations for a smaller, quiet precision saw suitable for close pen blank cuts. Thanks in advance, Ward

This question gets asked alot but there is no true answer. You talk about job site saws and noise, that is because they use universal motors such a shop vacs do and are many times direct drive like a skilsaw. Smaller model building saws are just that small and use a smaller usually underpowered motor. The Byrnes saw was mentioned and yes a nice saw but again limited in what it can do and the huge factor for me that is a negative with that saw it is not a tilting arbor saw. You can not angle the blade. Instead you have to buy a contraption table or make a jig to incorporate stave cutting. The blade height will limit you also for the amount of wood you can cut. Must cut slower to allow motor to keep up. The price of that saw is too high for what it does.

Now a full sized contractor saw, hybrid saw or cabinet saw is the perfect workshop saw. It does require space but for accuracy, versatility there is no better saw on the market that can do all it can do. Vary the blade and the sky is the limit. as with all tools they too have limits. Now knowledge and safety are paramount with the use of all tools in the shop but with a tablesaw they are premium. Bandsaw can do what you ask if it is well tuned and the use of jigs and fences and miter gauges will do just fine when segmenting. heck I segment using my router on my lathe. So to again answer your question there is no definitive answer. Can give recommendations if you want to choose an avenue but I would stay away from those model building saws unless that is something you want to get into or have alot of money to throw around. Heck you do segmenting with a hand saw and good miter box. How detailed segmenting you want to get into. Sorry but that is the best way I can answer this question.

 

[mark james]

I have recently started making my own segmented pen blanks. Cutting pen blanks lenghtwise in straight halves or thirds has been a challenge with a band saw. I am exploring a more precise table saw for cutting blank sized pieces of wood. The "job site" portable table saws look too large and noisey and are probably an overkill for my smaller jobs. I would like feedback and/or recommendations for a smaller, quiet precision saw suitable for close pen blank cuts. Thanks in advance, Ward

I'll agree with Mal and give a shout out for the Byrnes. And although it is not cheap, if is far less costly than larger contractor saws. IF, you were interested in more that what you indicated, I may give a different recommendation. But based on your mentioned requirements, it will be excellent. I have one and love it. Not an exceptionally powerful motor, a blade height of 15/16" so it is a dedicated small saw.

(If you wish to see some uses for the Byrnes, some examples are displayed here: Library - Studies in Segmenting I-VI.)

 

[Hubert H]

Byrnes - you will not regret the purchase. They have a drum sander that is excellent also.

 

[leehljp]

1. if you have a 10" table saw, most will accept a 7" blade which will cut down your depth of cut, but it will still probably leave you a full inch. The point is that 7" saw blades can be had with 1/16" kerf (1.58mm). Anything less in kerf and you have to go with speciality saws.

I made my own speciality segmenting saw 10 years ago when I was living in Japan and was able to pick up several blades (120mm diameter) that had kerfs of .9 mm, 1mm, 1.2 mm. They are great in segmenting.

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.

www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.

www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.

www.penturners.org

The Byrnes saw is a quality saw and if I had not made the one that I did, I would have probably bought one.

 

[seaclanky]

I have recently started making my own segmented pen blanks. Cutting pen blanks lenghtwise in straight halves or thirds has been a challenge with a band saw. I am exploring a more precise table saw for cutting blank sized pieces of wood. The "job site" portable table saws look too large and noisey and are probably an overkill for my smaller jobs. I would like feedback and/or recommendations for a smaller, quiet precision saw suitable for close pen blank cuts. Thanks in advance, Ward

Hello Ward,
I've only been at this lark for a year, and am still experimenting with my little DeWalt 100 bandsaw. This is not a large saw - you can stow it under the bench when not in use - but for pen blanks and suchlike it's an ideal size. Now I inherited mine from me old uncle and fair to say it is as clapped out as you can get and still run. However the blade is good and I can produce veneers of 1 to 2 mil thickness. Lets say about one 32nd imperial. The proviso being that you have to set the machine up as precisely as you can manage. Start with a new blade and set the tension and tracking. Adjust both the upper and lower guides to fine (as fine as possible) clearances. Don't force the cut, let the blade come to the wood. And so on. My advice would be to give your present machine a good fettling and then if you're still frustrated, try a variety of (other people's) machines before parting with your brass.
In any case, let us know how you get on.
Graeme.

 

[EricRN]

This question gets asked alot but there is no true answer. You talk about job site saws and noise, that is because they use universal motors such a shop vacs do and are many times direct drive like a skilsaw. Smaller model building saws are just that small and use a smaller usually underpowered motor. The Byrnes saw was mentioned and yes a nice saw but again limited in what it can do and the huge factor for me that is a negative with that saw it is not a tilting arbor saw. You can not angle the blade. Instead you have to buy a contraption table or make a jig to incorporate stave cutting. The blade height will limit you also for the amount of wood you can cut. Must cut slower to allow motor to keep up. The price of that saw is too high for what it does.

Now a full sized contractor saw, hybrid saw or cabinet saw is the perfect workshop saw. It does require space but for accuracy, versatility there is no better saw on the market that can do all it can do. Vary the blade and the sky is the limit. as with all tools they too have limits. Now knowledge and safety are paramount with the use of all tools in the shop but with a tablesaw they are premium. Bandsaw can do what you ask if it is well tuned and the use of jigs and fences and miter gauges will do just fine when segmenting. heck I segment using my router on my lathe. So to again answer your question there is no definitive answer. Can give recommendations if you want to choose an avenue but I would stay away from those model building saws unless that is something you want to get into or have alot of money to throw around. Heck you do segmenting with a hand saw and good miter box. How detailed segmenting you want to get into. Sorry but that is the best way I can answer this question.

Hi, I was curious how you use your router on your lathe to segment?

 

[seaclanky]

I have recently started making my own segmented pen blanks. Cutting pen blanks lenghtwise in straight halves or thirds has been a challenge with a band saw. I am exploring a more precise table saw for cutting blank sized pieces of wood. The "job site" portable table saws look too large and noisey and are probably an overkill for my smaller jobs. I would like feedback and/or recommendations for a smaller, quiet precision saw suitable for close pen blank cuts. Thanks in advance, Ward

Hello again Ward.
This is the sort of stuff I've been able to knock up so far.

Graeme.

 

[dogcatcher]

Do you do any other woodworking or have the desire to try other woodworking that might require a table saw?

 

[Ward]

Thank you all for your input. The Byrnes saw gets the most votes so far. What accessories are a must have? Thanks, Ward

 

[Ward]

Do you do any other woodworking or have the desire to try other woodworking that might require a table saw?

Not at this time - just pens. Thanks, Ward

 

[dogcatcher]

Then the Byrnes will handle the job you asked about. But it will not handle much more. If you start segmenting bowl blanks and other large blanks, a regular table saw would be my choice. For some the noise factor has always been a problem with table saws, but a good belt drive table saw will more useful if you get into larger woodworking projects.

 

[mark james]

Thank you all for your input. The Byrnes saw gets the most votes so far. What accessories are a must have? Thanks, Ward

I have made several useful accessories, pictures to follow.

I will actually caution on buying the sled with the adjustable miter bar. I bought it, but do not use it enough to justify the cost. I did buy the "micro adjuster thingie" for very refined adjustments and do use that on occasion. Mostly, some scrap aluminum angles and plates. Oh, and a small file with a ground tip to guide pieces (orange in my picture.

I make lots of small, thin cuts, so I have several lengths of aluminum angle bars that I use to get a space for my material to drop to the right of the blade without getting pulverized. I also use at times a shop vac attachment on the right to pull the pieces away safely. And the last picture shows my fancy zero tolerance plate - blue painters tape. I'll place the tape over the blade (in the recessed position), raise the blade to the height I need, and adjust the right guide angle plate to just the edge of the blade. I like having a tight front edge for my zero tolerance, so the blue tape is essentially a custom fit every time - works great for a single project, costs nothing.

These have worked for me - I know my machine, I know my limits, be safe.

 

[Ward]

Mark - great tips and pics, thanks for sharing! - Ward

I have made several useful accessories, pictures to follow.

I will actually caution on buying the sled with the adjustable miter bar. I bought it, but do not use it enough to justify the cost. I did buy the "micro adjuster thingie" for very refined adjustments and do use that on occasion. Mostly, some scrap aluminum angles and plates. Oh, and a small file with a ground tip to guide pieces (orange in my picture.

I make lots of small, thin cuts, so I have several lengths of aluminum angle bars that I use to get a space for my material to drop to the right of the blade without getting pulverized. I also use at times a shop vac attachment on the right to pull the pieces away safely. And the last picture shows my fancy zero tolerance plate - blue painters tape. I'll place the tape over the blade (in the recessed position), raise the blade to the height I need, and adjust the right guide angle plate to just the edge of the blade. I like having a tight front edge for my zero tolerance, so the blue tape is essentially a custom fit every time - works great for a single project, costs nothing.

These have worked for me - I know my machine, I know my limits, be safe.View attachment 222866View attachment 222867View attachment 222868View attachment 222869View attachment 222870View attachment 222871View attachment 222872View attachment 222873View attachment 222874View attachment 222866View attachment 222867View attachment 222868View attachment 222869View attachment 222870View attachment 222871View attachment 222872View attachment 222873View attachment 222874View attachment 222866View attachment 222867View attachment 222868View attachment 222869View attachment 222870View attachment 222871View attachment 222872View attachment 222873View attachment 222874View attachment 222874View attachment 222866View attachment 222867View attachment 222868View attachment 222869View attachment 222870View attachment 222871View attachment 222872View attachment 222873View attachment 222874

 

[leehljp]

Mark,
I really like your angled wood. I had a set when I was in Japan but they got lost in the move back here. I think I left them in a drawer in the shop. Nothing like precision pre-set angles. Thanks for posting the picts.

 

[mark james]

Mark,
I really like your angled wood. I had a set when I was in Japan but they got lost in the move back here. I think I left them in a drawer in the shop. Nothing like precision pre-set angles. Thanks for posting the picts.

Lee (and others), for the Arrow Blank I wanted a 75 degree angle, so used the miter gauge at 45 degrees and a plate for the last 30 degrees. LOL, next time I'll just make a 75 degree plate.

I like the plates and eventually (after about 6 months out of my shop) will make nice ones - these were quickies. I can ten use the Byrnes sled without the miter bar, and it will be safer than my current method.

I need to more to Venus... 5,832 hrs in a day!

 

[jttheclockman]

Hi, I was curious how you use your router on your lathe to segment?

My Jig

Remember these pens??? Well people have asked how I make them. Unfortunately I did not take alot of photos but will post some and you can get the basic idea and the tools I used to do these and the others that I used the dots on. When I do more like these I will take more photos. I...

www.penturners.org

At some time I will get back to making pens, more toward the fall. But when I do I will try to take more photos of some of my methods.

 

[Bryguy]

Hands down, the Byrnes. I love mine. Just remember as small as it is, it can still take the end of your finger off. (Been there, done that!)

 

[Ward]

Thanks to all who have recommended the Byrnes. I've tried to contact them without luck. No eMail replies and their phone answering service states the "memory is full." Does anyone know how to contact them or other sources to purchase their saw? Thanks, Ward

 

[mark james]

Thanks to all who have recommended the Byrnes. I've tried to contact them without luck. No eMail replies and their phone answering service states the "memory is full." Does anyone know how to contact them or other sources to purchase their saw? Thanks, Ward

I ordered some stuff from their online, all went well. I had some questions and that did take some "patience" on my part to get through.

 

[jttheclockman]

You maybe on a wait list. he builds these one at a time.

 

[Dieseldoc]

Hi, I was curious how you use your router on your lathe to segment?

I ordered some stuff from their online, all went well. I had some questions and that did take some "patience" on my part to get through.

they are closed on Fridays

 

[greenacres2]

@mark james...when i first looked at your pictures, i assumed the vac was for dust collection, with the screen to keep from losing parts--reading to discover that you use the vacuum to clear parts from the blade takes it to a whole new level!! What an awesome idea. Your post above is a great education, and i appreciate your thought process.
earl

 

[mark james]

@mark james...when i first looked at your pictures, i assumed the vac was for dust collection, with the screen to keep from losing parts--reading to discover that you use the vacuum to clear parts from the blade takes it to a whole new level!! What an awesome idea. Your post above is a great education, and i appreciate your thought process.
earl

Credit is due to Branden Wong: This Jig Sucks. This is why I am such a firm believer in the IAP Library, sharing what I/we do, posting as many pictures to aid in the narrative and not mindlessly saying "figure it out." A great library reference and Branden is a fine segmenter.

 

[Ward]

Saw Ordered! My patience finally paid off. Jim Byrnes finally called me after just returning from vacation, explained the various accessories for the saw and I placed an order. It shoiuld arrive in about two weeks. Can hardly wait. BTY . . . for those who alread have the saw, he now offeres a slightly larger "Diablo" blade that allows you to cut a little thicker piece of wood. Thanks for all the input - Ward

 

[jttheclockman]

Saw Ordered! My patience finally paid off. Jim Byrnes finally called me after just returning from vacation, explained the various accessories for the saw and I placed an order. It shoiuld arrive in about two weeks. Can hardly wait. BTY . . . for those who alread have the saw, he now offeres a slightly larger "Diablo" blade that allows you to cut a little thicker piece of wood. Thanks for all the input - Ward

what thickness??

 

[Ward]

A little bit over an inch but check with him for exact figures. He hasen't posted it yet on his website.

 

[jttheclockman]

A little bit over an inch but check with him for exact figures. He hasen't posted it yet on his website.

That should help those doing segmenting work because 1" is a nice round number when working off fixed numbers and doing segmented work. That is what I try to do. I am not in the market for that saw but others may find it helpful. Still an expensive toy.

 

[mark james]

Saw Ordered! My patience finally paid off. Jim Byrnes finally called me after just returning from vacation, explained the various accessories for the saw and I placed an order. It shoiuld arrive in about two weeks. Can hardly wait. BTY . . . for those who alread have the saw, he now offeres a slightly larger "Diablo" blade that allows you to cut a little thicker piece of wood. Thanks for all the input - Ward

I appreciate hearing about the newer blade. Thank you for the note. Have FUN!

 

[mikespenturningz]

My Jig

Remember these pens??? Well people have asked how I make them. Unfortunately I did not take alot of photos but will post some and you can get the basic idea and the tools I used to do these and the others that I used the dots on. When I do more like these I will take more photos. I...

www.penturners.org

At some time I will get back to making pens, more toward the fall. But when I do I will try to take more photos of some of my methods.

Gail amd I built/had built a house. I have been way too busy over the last 4 years to make pens. Now the house is mostly done and I just retired. Started making pens again a week or so ago. Nice to see you are still here.

 

[jttheclockman]

Gail amd I built/had built a house. I have been way too busy over the last 4 years to make pens. Now the house is mostly done and I just retired. Started making pens again a week or so ago. Nice to see you are still here.

HELLO MIKE!!!! Miss you around here. One of the originators to the segmenting world on this site. Your thread on segmenting has helped many and continues to grow. https://www.penturners.org/threads/no-comments-just-post-new-segmented-pens-and-likes.111419/ It is an inspiration for many new segmenters that have come along and bringing with them new ideas.

I am still here representing some of the old guard and still dabble in pen making. Still love the art of segmenting and still have a ton of ideas I have not even tried yet. Life has gotten in the way a few times. Health also but still kicking. I usually take the summers off from shop time because have many other projects going. This year remodeling the interior of the house or at least parts of it. This has been an ongoing project just like all my projects. Hope you stick around and jump back into the pen making world and show us some new segmented things. See you around the forum. It has changed abit but still a good group to be part of and Jeff is keeping us all in line.

 

[mikespenturningz]

Well you gave me a lot of inspiration in those early days. I am getting ready to dabble in the kitless realm a little. I have tons of liberty and eagle component sets to work through though. I need to get my Etsy site restocked and active again. Back in the day I was selling tons of pens there but now it is a slow trickle for sure. I will continue with some simple segmenting but really like finding woods that are naturally segmented.. That is the true miracle segmenting for sure..