ldb2000
Member
If there's an entry fee then I'm out . I've been un/under employed for over a year now and just couldn't afford it and I'm sure that in this economy I'm not alone .
Best of IAP Contest Questions
- Thread starter Scott
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penhead
Local Chapter Leader
- casting should be done by the contest entrant
- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant
- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant
Brooks803
Member
I agree with Joe so there isn't much for me to add except this....when and where do I sign up????
I've got a couple blanks that have been waiting for something like this!
I've got a couple blanks that have been waiting for something like this!
MarkHix
Member
I am on board w/ most of the rest of you on casting and segmenting, it needs to be entered by the creater.
Kitless is a little harder. There are some talented pen makers on here. I think if you limit the "kit" parts to the transmission and fp feed it would be as close as you could reasonably expect for a kitless pen.
Are you limited to 4 categories? What about a modified category to cover those that have some kit parts but could not compete in the open category or kitless category. Maybe not...just thinking on my keyboard.
Kitless is a little harder. There are some talented pen makers on here. I think if you limit the "kit" parts to the transmission and fp feed it would be as close as you could reasonably expect for a kitless pen.
Are you limited to 4 categories? What about a modified category to cover those that have some kit parts but could not compete in the open category or kitless category. Maybe not...just thinking on my keyboard.
Displaced Canadian
Member
I think a pen can be kitless even if you use a factory clip and/or nib. Not thrilled about the idea of an entry fee perhaps if it was just a small one. There is the unemployed, the young and the fixed income to think about. To me a contest like this would be more about the glory than the prize. Your work in a magazine is pretty heady stuff.
lorbay
Member
azamiryou
Member
- casting done by entrant
- segmenting done by entrant
- "kitless" should mean no identifiable kit parts visible when the pen is in normal use (closed or open). If you can tell it's a slimline clip or cigar CB or Jr. Gent II section, it's not kitless.
- open means anything goes
I think it's a bit backwards to have "open" and "kitless"; it would make more sense to me to have "open" and "kit". In most contests, more basic categories are restricted to keep advanced contestants from spoiling the novices' fun, while more advanced categories are open so a novice can jump in if they want. Also, the definition of "kit" can be much simpler and less controversial than the definition of "kitless".
- segmenting done by entrant
- "kitless" should mean no identifiable kit parts visible when the pen is in normal use (closed or open). If you can tell it's a slimline clip or cigar CB or Jr. Gent II section, it's not kitless.
- open means anything goes
I think it's a bit backwards to have "open" and "kitless"; it would make more sense to me to have "open" and "kit". In most contests, more basic categories are restricted to keep advanced contestants from spoiling the novices' fun, while more advanced categories are open so a novice can jump in if they want. Also, the definition of "kit" can be much simpler and less controversial than the definition of "kitless".
rherrell
Member
I think kitless should mean kitless so I think the refill should be the ONLY part that isn't made by the pencrafter.:wink:
TellicoTurning
Member
This will eliminate a number of contestants...
example, I don't cast nor do I do segmented blanks... I generally buy what I need and just do the turning...
I haven't done much in the kitless category either, but that is more just a matter of never having tried it...
penmaker1967
Member
i agree with the posts myself on page 1
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Scott
Member
Some good points, and some even better questions!
The entry fee we were thinking about was $20 per entry.
We've also decided that no one pen can be entered in more than one category, but that each individual could enter up to three separate pens, which may be in separate categories or the same category.
On the kitless I am leaning towards allowing nib/feed/section on fountain pens, section on rollerballs, and transmission on ball pens. I see "kits" as being an assemblage of parts. Less than the whole assemblage is not a "kit". So one or two parts from a kit could still be kitless. With this assumption, what parts of a pen could an innovative penmaker still be expected to seek out and use without destroying the ideal of being totally made by the penmaker without the use of a kit?
If you look at fountain pens, even commercial pen companies do not make their own nibs. And often they do not make their own feeds. The section mates precisely with the feed and nib, so I think of them as one assembly. For a rollerball, it is the most likely style to not need any kit parts, but to be fair I'd be willing to allow a section. As for ballpoint pens, they are reasonably expected to advance and retract the refill, but I don't think anyone would expect such a pen to not have a manufactured transmission.
And what about brass tubes? They are part of the kits. Do we allow brass tubes? Like I say, my biggest quandary is in the definition of what constitutes "kitless".
Thanks!
Scott.
The entry fee we were thinking about was $20 per entry.
We've also decided that no one pen can be entered in more than one category, but that each individual could enter up to three separate pens, which may be in separate categories or the same category.
On the kitless I am leaning towards allowing nib/feed/section on fountain pens, section on rollerballs, and transmission on ball pens. I see "kits" as being an assemblage of parts. Less than the whole assemblage is not a "kit". So one or two parts from a kit could still be kitless. With this assumption, what parts of a pen could an innovative penmaker still be expected to seek out and use without destroying the ideal of being totally made by the penmaker without the use of a kit?
If you look at fountain pens, even commercial pen companies do not make their own nibs. And often they do not make their own feeds. The section mates precisely with the feed and nib, so I think of them as one assembly. For a rollerball, it is the most likely style to not need any kit parts, but to be fair I'd be willing to allow a section. As for ballpoint pens, they are reasonably expected to advance and retract the refill, but I don't think anyone would expect such a pen to not have a manufactured transmission.
And what about brass tubes? They are part of the kits. Do we allow brass tubes? Like I say, my biggest quandary is in the definition of what constitutes "kitless".
Thanks!
Scott.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Regarding brass tubes, I have a complete collection of K&S brass tubing, by 64ths up to 3/4"--so "kit" brass would be indistinguishable from "commercial" brass. I'd say if there is no way to tell the difference, you'd best allow all brass.
Scott
Member
What do you think of this definition for Kitless:
Kitless – Any and all pens produced from any material, which are not produced with the benefit of a pen kit. For purposes of this contest, the following parts may be obtained and not made by the penmaker: for fountain pens, the nib/feed/section; for rollerballs, the section; and for ball pens, the transmission. No kit clips are allowed. Other kit parts may be used if they are substantially altered by the penmaker before use, or are used for other than the intended "kit" use, which allows them to be considered as "raw material" rather than a kit part. While the pre-cut brass tubes included in kits may not be used, bits and pieces of brass tubes, sourced from kits or independently, may be used.
Scott.
Kitless – Any and all pens produced from any material, which are not produced with the benefit of a pen kit. For purposes of this contest, the following parts may be obtained and not made by the penmaker: for fountain pens, the nib/feed/section; for rollerballs, the section; and for ball pens, the transmission. No kit clips are allowed. Other kit parts may be used if they are substantially altered by the penmaker before use, or are used for other than the intended "kit" use, which allows them to be considered as "raw material" rather than a kit part. While the pre-cut brass tubes included in kits may not be used, bits and pieces of brass tubes, sourced from kits or independently, may be used.
Scott.
What about non kit clips? Why not just say that if a clip is used, the penmaker must make and not purchase it.
Still against the entry fee. I put it in the same categry as a membership fee to IAP. Its not that I can't afford it, but it has the potential to limit entries and create hard feelings. If you want to collect donations for prizes which I still feel are unnecessary, I would be happy to contribute.
Still against the entry fee. I put it in the same categry as a membership fee to IAP. Its not that I can't afford it, but it has the potential to limit entries and create hard feelings. If you want to collect donations for prizes which I still feel are unnecessary, I would be happy to contribute.
Dalecamino
Local Chapter Leader
Guess I'd better figure out how to make a clip:redface:
IPD_Mr
Member
hewunch
Member
I hear what you are saying about the clip Bruce. I think kit clips should be allowed, but, I think that clips made by the penmaker would set those pens above the rest. If you know what I mean.
I could go either way - just wanted to be sure that if manufactured clips are allowed, it should clear whether ones salvaged from kits, ones purchased separately, or both are allowed or not. It was unclear from Scott's first description.
Fibonacci
Member
As a new turner who is finally getting to the point of feeling competant, I am against an entry fee for a couple reasons:
1. I generally work on pens that cost under $5. A $20 entry fee is 4+ kits. I know several other people (not a huge number) that are in similar boats. In my case, I work with inexpensive parts because I am still fairly early in my career and I have a toddler to pay for.
2. I have several ideas for upcoming pens that I would like to make for a competition. I know that as a new turner I have no chance of actually winning, but it would be fun to participate. An entry fee would cause me to dismiss the competition outright as an cost with no benefit.
3. It sounds like this is in conjuction with the magazine. They are selling the magazine, as well as ad space in it. Paying for a competition that they will use to sell more copies seems backward to me.
In my experience, an entry fee is generally use to limit entries to "serious" competitors. If your goal is to get a limited number of the highest quality entries possible, then it is probably a good idea. If your goal is to have a more fun competition with a lot of entries, then eliminating the entry fee will widen the available pool of entrants.
--------------------
On the subject of your original questions:
1. The cast category should require entrants to cast thier own blanks. This will highlight the people that make the effort to make their own blanks and turn them. A purchased cast blank (or parts of it) can be used in any of the other categories, so this should be reserved for people who do the whole thing themselves.
2. The segmenting category should require people to do thier own segmenting for the same reasons above. I would let people use pieces of a purchased blank for segmenting because the focus is then on the segmenting, not the casting.
3. There is a LOT of baggage that goes along with the term kitless. Perhaps it would be better to have this be a closed end category. There are very few (if any) closed end kits, and virtually every pen that is called "kitless" is closed end. That dramatically reduces the number of opportunities for arguments and bad feelings. Like Ed said, tubes is tubes. I can get a tube in any size I want, and saying I can cut a piece of tubing to the exact length of a slimline kit, but not use one from the kit seems arbitrary and silly. This also sidesteps the issue of clips and where they can be sourced.
4. I would leave the open class as just plain open. No rules are necessary beyond it must be functional as a pen. Limit entries to a single category and someone with a super kitless can decide where they want to compete.
I would also allow for a best overall (or something like that) that is independant of categories.
It would be interesting to know what the pens will be judged on. Is it artistic quality? Aesthetic appeal? Fit/Finish? Creativity? Something different? Each of those asks for a different kind of design.
1. I generally work on pens that cost under $5. A $20 entry fee is 4+ kits. I know several other people (not a huge number) that are in similar boats. In my case, I work with inexpensive parts because I am still fairly early in my career and I have a toddler to pay for.
2. I have several ideas for upcoming pens that I would like to make for a competition. I know that as a new turner I have no chance of actually winning, but it would be fun to participate. An entry fee would cause me to dismiss the competition outright as an cost with no benefit.
3. It sounds like this is in conjuction with the magazine. They are selling the magazine, as well as ad space in it. Paying for a competition that they will use to sell more copies seems backward to me.
In my experience, an entry fee is generally use to limit entries to "serious" competitors. If your goal is to get a limited number of the highest quality entries possible, then it is probably a good idea. If your goal is to have a more fun competition with a lot of entries, then eliminating the entry fee will widen the available pool of entrants.
--------------------
On the subject of your original questions:
1. The cast category should require entrants to cast thier own blanks. This will highlight the people that make the effort to make their own blanks and turn them. A purchased cast blank (or parts of it) can be used in any of the other categories, so this should be reserved for people who do the whole thing themselves.
2. The segmenting category should require people to do thier own segmenting for the same reasons above. I would let people use pieces of a purchased blank for segmenting because the focus is then on the segmenting, not the casting.
3. There is a LOT of baggage that goes along with the term kitless. Perhaps it would be better to have this be a closed end category. There are very few (if any) closed end kits, and virtually every pen that is called "kitless" is closed end. That dramatically reduces the number of opportunities for arguments and bad feelings. Like Ed said, tubes is tubes. I can get a tube in any size I want, and saying I can cut a piece of tubing to the exact length of a slimline kit, but not use one from the kit seems arbitrary and silly. This also sidesteps the issue of clips and where they can be sourced.
4. I would leave the open class as just plain open. No rules are necessary beyond it must be functional as a pen. Limit entries to a single category and someone with a super kitless can decide where they want to compete.
I would also allow for a best overall (or something like that) that is independant of categories.
It would be interesting to know what the pens will be judged on. Is it artistic quality? Aesthetic appeal? Fit/Finish? Creativity? Something different? Each of those asks for a different kind of design.
Scott, I agree with Ed on the issue of brass tubes. I would simply put it as "Brass tubes in any form may or may not be used in the making of the pen but will not considered a kit part." Your statement allows me to set aside the tubes from one kit and open up another kit and use those tubes. Several different kits use the same size tubes. How would you enforce this?
On paying entry fees. ITs possible to have a compittion that has several open catagories that dont require an entry fee. THey recieve Kudo's in the magazine, a man on a stick (trophy) with their name on it for bragging rights and maybe coupon to Mcdonalds Then there is the prize money compititions. Paid entry fee, paid winners. SIlver plated giant belt buckle, picture in the magazine with the beautiful young ladies of pen turning, Beer sponserships. etc.
Best of luck I will support it/you any way I can.
Mike
On paying entry fees. ITs possible to have a compittion that has several open catagories that dont require an entry fee. THey recieve Kudo's in the magazine, a man on a stick (trophy) with their name on it for bragging rights and maybe coupon to Mcdonalds Then there is the prize money compititions. Paid entry fee, paid winners. SIlver plated giant belt buckle, picture in the magazine with the beautiful young ladies of pen turning, Beer sponserships. etc.
Best of luck I will support it/you any way I can.
Mike
mrrichieboy
Member
Agree with Joe also.---Rich
Displaced Canadian
Member
I'm not a kitless penmaker, but when I think kitless I think no tubes.
ldb2000
Member
You can't really make a kitless ballpoint without the brass tubes or at least parts of the tubes . Fountain pens aren't the only kind of kitless pens .
Although it has not been mentioned here yet, we're discussing the concept of sending the pen for judging, eliminating the issue of poor photography. You'd be responsible for shipping the pen, and part of the entry fee would get it back to you. That would also allow the magazine to professionally photograph the winning pens.
So, I'm guessing that given the opposition to an entry fee, the idea of "live" judging isn't going to fly. So, we're going to need a rule for photography too, since that's a component in the success or failure of every entry. Something like "you must photograph the pen yourself, with your personally owned camera." Sound reasonable?
I have to admit that I am the one who raised the idea of an entry fee. Many other woodworking & turning sites have entry fees from $15 to $50, and they use it to generate a nice prize pool and pay expenses. I was hoping we could make this a contest where the prizes were significant. I am surprised that idea didn't work here, but it doesn't matter either way.
I figured that $20 was reasonable given that just getting into pen making requires some investment in equipment, tools, etc. Sure there are some folks who got all their stuff for free/cheap, but that's not the norm.
I'm fine with the idea of dropping the entry fee, as well as eliminating in-person judging. Before we do that, maybe we could get a few people to agree to sponsor those who truly can't afford it. Of course if you're opposed on principle to the idea of any entry fee, well that's your prerogative.
We need a poll!
1 - I agree to a $20 fee
2 - The $20 fee is too high, but I'll pay something
3 - I am opposed on principle to any fee
4 - I'd pay a $20 fee, but I can't afford it and I'd accept a sponsor.
So, I'm guessing that given the opposition to an entry fee, the idea of "live" judging isn't going to fly. So, we're going to need a rule for photography too, since that's a component in the success or failure of every entry. Something like "you must photograph the pen yourself, with your personally owned camera." Sound reasonable?
I have to admit that I am the one who raised the idea of an entry fee. Many other woodworking & turning sites have entry fees from $15 to $50, and they use it to generate a nice prize pool and pay expenses. I was hoping we could make this a contest where the prizes were significant. I am surprised that idea didn't work here, but it doesn't matter either way.
I figured that $20 was reasonable given that just getting into pen making requires some investment in equipment, tools, etc. Sure there are some folks who got all their stuff for free/cheap, but that's not the norm.
I'm fine with the idea of dropping the entry fee, as well as eliminating in-person judging. Before we do that, maybe we could get a few people to agree to sponsor those who truly can't afford it. Of course if you're opposed on principle to the idea of any entry fee, well that's your prerogative.
We need a poll!
1 - I agree to a $20 fee
2 - The $20 fee is too high, but I'll pay something
3 - I am opposed on principle to any fee
4 - I'd pay a $20 fee, but I can't afford it and I'd accept a sponsor.
You might begin like you do in the "bash" pick the finalists by submitted photos, and then the finalists, have to forward their pen to the judges. At some point you will have to say here are the rules. Whos going to play?
Texatdurango
Member
Just curious........ has any thought been given to restricting the type of equipment used in making a pen? I wouldn't mind trying my hand in the open class with a few ideas floating around in my head but wouldn't realistically expect to compete with a pen made on a $10,000 CNC machine where most of the "skill" in making the pen is in the computer programming! Not knocking those with the equipment, just looking for a semi-level playing field.
Hubert H
Member
Add me to list of agree-ers.
Displaced Canadian
Member
I think live judging is a good idea because it eliminates the photography element. How often has somebody said the pen looks better in person. Fit and finish is better judged in person. I would be willing to pay an entry fee of $20 to cover expenses.
Scott
Member
Hi Everybody!
I have been corresponding with Joe Herrman over at Woodturning Design Magazine, and he has looked at this thread. We have some tentative names for judges, but only one has been contacted, and he has agreed. Woodturning Design Magazine will publish pictures of the winning pens in each category. The top winner in each category will get a one-year subscription to the magazine. And we will choose a "best-of-show" pen, and that winner will be offered to write a paid article on how they made their pen! That is pretty good co-sponsoring from Woodturning Design Magazine!
I hold a little different view than Jeff. I guess it's my years of working in a welfare office, but I don't worry as much about making you all happy. If there is a problem with paying the entry fee, then somebody will sponsor the fee for you. I would be happy to pay the entry fee for Butch if he'd be willing to accept. I might even be able to scrape up an extra $20 for somebody else as well!
If it's a problem with sending in the pens to be judged, I know that is a pain, but believe me it is more of a pain for the contest organizer (me) and the judges, who have to care for all these pens and send them along. But this is a major contest, and the only proper way to judge this contest is to get the pens in the hands of the judges. This also allows the magazine to take some awesome pictures of the pens to be published in the magazine! I do think it's important to send in the pens.
As for the kitless definition, I am still working on that definition. I would be willing to allow brass tubes because for the most part they are structural and not visible. As for kit clips, I do not think that kit clips should be allowed, but using a clip that was once a part of a kit, or for that matter, part of another pen, as long as it is substantially modified in appearance, I would be OK with that.
Also, I really do think that Open Class should mean "Open"! I wanted at least one category where there are essentially no limits. Make the craziest dang pen you ever dreamed of, and it can fit in here. This is the category where we can really show where penmaking has gone. Is there a chance that somebody using CNC can blow this category away, and maybe the Best-of-Show as well? Yes! But there is also a chance that a perfectly beautiful kit pen will win instead! Because when we get right down to it, it's not the tool that makes the difference, it's the person using the tool!
As always, please let me know your thoughts.
Scott.
I have been corresponding with Joe Herrman over at Woodturning Design Magazine, and he has looked at this thread. We have some tentative names for judges, but only one has been contacted, and he has agreed. Woodturning Design Magazine will publish pictures of the winning pens in each category. The top winner in each category will get a one-year subscription to the magazine. And we will choose a "best-of-show" pen, and that winner will be offered to write a paid article on how they made their pen! That is pretty good co-sponsoring from Woodturning Design Magazine!
I hold a little different view than Jeff. I guess it's my years of working in a welfare office, but I don't worry as much about making you all happy. If there is a problem with paying the entry fee, then somebody will sponsor the fee for you. I would be happy to pay the entry fee for Butch if he'd be willing to accept. I might even be able to scrape up an extra $20 for somebody else as well!
If it's a problem with sending in the pens to be judged, I know that is a pain, but believe me it is more of a pain for the contest organizer (me) and the judges, who have to care for all these pens and send them along. But this is a major contest, and the only proper way to judge this contest is to get the pens in the hands of the judges. This also allows the magazine to take some awesome pictures of the pens to be published in the magazine! I do think it's important to send in the pens.
As for the kitless definition, I am still working on that definition. I would be willing to allow brass tubes because for the most part they are structural and not visible. As for kit clips, I do not think that kit clips should be allowed, but using a clip that was once a part of a kit, or for that matter, part of another pen, as long as it is substantially modified in appearance, I would be OK with that.
Also, I really do think that Open Class should mean "Open"! I wanted at least one category where there are essentially no limits. Make the craziest dang pen you ever dreamed of, and it can fit in here. This is the category where we can really show where penmaking has gone. Is there a chance that somebody using CNC can blow this category away, and maybe the Best-of-Show as well? Yes! But there is also a chance that a perfectly beautiful kit pen will win instead! Because when we get right down to it, it's not the tool that makes the difference, it's the person using the tool!
As always, please let me know your thoughts.
Scott.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
This made me think, last night.
The IAP will be running this in conjunction with WOODTURNING Design magazine. The "pen-making" hobby started and many have thrived with woodturning tools. Should the contest be limited to pens made with WOODTURNING tools and lathes?? Taps and dies are metalworking tools, predominately. Of course metal lathes are for metalworking. Maybe we should reconsider WHAT is inkeeping with the audience that READS our sponsor's magazine???
Had not occurred to me, until George's comments, but there is some logic to limiting the tools, isn't there??
ed4copies;1227654 This made me think said:
I'm against the entry fee, but I do like live judging and having the magazine photo the winners. With that in mind, I would be happy to donate to cover some of the shippoing costs, etc.
I was laughing so hard at one of the posts, 
I forgot if you mentioned this already? Will EVERY entry have to be sent in for judging or just the top bunch selected from photos shown here?
Is this an International contest and will our cool sponsor be prepared to post a mag subscription to say South Africa, UK, Oz, Germany etc etc if one of them is lucky enough to win either of the groups?
Will entrants have the opportunity to perhaps pay a little more to make sure their entries get insured/trackable return postage?
Thanks
I forgot if you mentioned this already? Will EVERY entry have to be sent in for judging or just the top bunch selected from photos shown here?Is this an International contest and will our cool sponsor be prepared to post a mag subscription to say South Africa, UK, Oz, Germany etc etc if one of them is lucky enough to win either of the groups?
Will entrants have the opportunity to perhaps pay a little more to make sure their entries get insured/trackable return postage?
Thanks
TerryDowning
Member
Based on what I have read so far I think four categories is too few.
There are a lot of variables here. I think the rues need to be very specific for each category so there is no room for interpretation. Determine who the judges will be and have them assign the final judging criteria for each category.
Example. If you are judging the castings should the fit and finish of the final product be evaluated? or are you more interested in the material, obvious defects, bubbles, etc.
Kitless is too vague of a name of a category and we as the pen turning community can't even come to a majority agreement on what is or is not kitless. If you are going to have a kitless category the rules need to be clearly defined BY THE JUDGES as they are the ones who are making the determinations.
I like the idea of an Open category but again, what is and is not allowed is a matter for the judges to decide and advise ahead of the competition.
Ultimately, if you don't like or agree with the judging criteria for each category, then don't enter.
Perhaps, the categories should be
Casting - where the quality of the casting is evaluated and an unturned sample of the blank must be turned in as well. Casting turned and finished but unassembled to a pen?
Segmenting - where the quality and difficulty of the segmenting is evaluated. Not necessarily the fit and finish of the pen. Segments turned and and ready for finishing but NOT finished and not assembled to a pen? This way the segmenting is being judged and not the pen.
Kit Pens with different divisions to help level the playing field some what
twist type ball point kits (Generally the least expensive and most common)
click pens
pencils
roller ball
fountain
Open - where pretty much anything goes. Just turn in a pen to be evaluated on creativity, fit finish and general execution of a pen concept. Kitless, modified kit, customizations, whatever.
Rules that can not be enforced or adjudicated equitably should not be issued. Example. You must take your own photos. What if I'm a professional photographer? Or
Twist mechanisms and brass tubes that you get from a kit can not be used. How on earth can you enforce that?
You might as well say "don't scratch your ear when making the pen". or "Do not do any work on this pen on a Tuesday". How will you know??
Just my thoughts on the subject.
There are a lot of variables here. I think the rues need to be very specific for each category so there is no room for interpretation. Determine who the judges will be and have them assign the final judging criteria for each category.
Example. If you are judging the castings should the fit and finish of the final product be evaluated? or are you more interested in the material, obvious defects, bubbles, etc.
Kitless is too vague of a name of a category and we as the pen turning community can't even come to a majority agreement on what is or is not kitless. If you are going to have a kitless category the rules need to be clearly defined BY THE JUDGES as they are the ones who are making the determinations.
I like the idea of an Open category but again, what is and is not allowed is a matter for the judges to decide and advise ahead of the competition.
Ultimately, if you don't like or agree with the judging criteria for each category, then don't enter.
Perhaps, the categories should be
Casting - where the quality of the casting is evaluated and an unturned sample of the blank must be turned in as well. Casting turned and finished but unassembled to a pen?
Segmenting - where the quality and difficulty of the segmenting is evaluated. Not necessarily the fit and finish of the pen. Segments turned and and ready for finishing but NOT finished and not assembled to a pen? This way the segmenting is being judged and not the pen.
Kit Pens with different divisions to help level the playing field some what
twist type ball point kits (Generally the least expensive and most common)
click pens
pencils
roller ball
fountain
Open - where pretty much anything goes. Just turn in a pen to be evaluated on creativity, fit finish and general execution of a pen concept. Kitless, modified kit, customizations, whatever.
Rules that can not be enforced or adjudicated equitably should not be issued. Example. You must take your own photos. What if I'm a professional photographer? Or
Twist mechanisms and brass tubes that you get from a kit can not be used. How on earth can you enforce that?
You might as well say "don't scratch your ear when making the pen". or "Do not do any work on this pen on a Tuesday". How will you know??
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Curly
Member
I was wondering if a collaboration of two or more artists would be allowed to enter a pen?
An example might be.
I make the nib, centre band and clip from Green Kryptonite.
A friend engraves those parts with antique Egyptian engraving tools with stylized Hieroglyphics.
Lastly my girlfriend, Marla, makes a casting using Cuttlefish tentacles (sucker side out :wink: ), turns, polishes and assembles the pen.
The example is far fetched but a slightly less ambitious effort could produce a remarkable pen entry. Using components and materials purchased from small or large suppliers is close to the same thing.
Pete
An example might be.
I make the nib, centre band and clip from Green Kryptonite.
A friend engraves those parts with antique Egyptian engraving tools with stylized Hieroglyphics.
Lastly my girlfriend, Marla, makes a casting using Cuttlefish tentacles (sucker side out :wink: ), turns, polishes and assembles the pen.
The example is far fetched but a slightly less ambitious effort could produce a remarkable pen entry. Using components and materials purchased from small or large suppliers is close to the same thing.
Pete
ldb2000
Member
This will be an exciting contest for all .... if the rules can be hammered out . If the entry fee is only $20 then I think I could scrape together enough pennies to get in on the fun . Some of the contest entry fees I have seen were $50 or more and that just isn't doable .
Casting ; I agree that the casting should be done by the entrant but you have to understand that this will leave out a number of the members that for whatever reason don't do casting thus limiting the number of entries you will get .
Segmenting : See casting
Kitless ; Definition , I have been shouted down on this subject too many times to really care anymore . We NEED a definition of the word so there will be no arguments in this or any other contests that may be held in the future . I will be happy to go along with anything you come up with . This category should be open to ALL members that have a lathe and the imagination to use it . With that said this is a few observations from this thread .
Tubes ; Brass kit tubes are required for ballpoint kitless pens and for strength in even some rollerball and fountain pens . I use a combination of Kit tubes , brass tubing from the local hobby shop and aluminum tubing as the core of most of my kitless work . Brass tubes are not what makes a kit pen , a kit pen .
Nibs/feeds and transmissions ; These components are required for ANY pen and are beyond the ability of almost all of the membership to manufacture themselves .
Clips ; This one is a real sticking point for many here . There are only a handful of members here that have the equipment and ability to create their own clips . To even the playing field I would suggest that clips be limited to one style clip that is readily available and is adaptable to many different styles of pens . Slimline or Cigar clips are the obvious choices for this purpose . I would suggest that Cigar clips are the most versatile clips for a contest of this type . I know this will not be popular with some here but I think for the greatest participation it would be the most fair .
Open ; This is the category that will give the top few a chance to really show off their abilities . There should be no rules here other then the pen should write and be refillable when done . No limit to the equipment or materials used .
Casting ; I agree that the casting should be done by the entrant but you have to understand that this will leave out a number of the members that for whatever reason don't do casting thus limiting the number of entries you will get .
Segmenting : See casting
Kitless ; Definition , I have been shouted down on this subject too many times to really care anymore . We NEED a definition of the word so there will be no arguments in this or any other contests that may be held in the future . I will be happy to go along with anything you come up with . This category should be open to ALL members that have a lathe and the imagination to use it . With that said this is a few observations from this thread .
Tubes ; Brass kit tubes are required for ballpoint kitless pens and for strength in even some rollerball and fountain pens . I use a combination of Kit tubes , brass tubing from the local hobby shop and aluminum tubing as the core of most of my kitless work . Brass tubes are not what makes a kit pen , a kit pen .
Nibs/feeds and transmissions ; These components are required for ANY pen and are beyond the ability of almost all of the membership to manufacture themselves .
Clips ; This one is a real sticking point for many here . There are only a handful of members here that have the equipment and ability to create their own clips . To even the playing field I would suggest that clips be limited to one style clip that is readily available and is adaptable to many different styles of pens . Slimline or Cigar clips are the obvious choices for this purpose . I would suggest that Cigar clips are the most versatile clips for a contest of this type . I know this will not be popular with some here but I think for the greatest participation it would be the most fair .
Open ; This is the category that will give the top few a chance to really show off their abilities . There should be no rules here other then the pen should write and be refillable when done . No limit to the equipment or materials used .
tjseagrove
Member
Is there a beginners class?
In arguing or penmaking?
DurocShark
Member
We need a "Kitted" class. Full kits, including ALL components.
To me this serves two purposes:
1. It allows those who do not segment, do not cast, and do not do kitless to still participate.
2. It would be more likely to please the magazine's advertisers, encouraging the magazine to continue to support such events.
I'm on the fence with the entry fee. Has the magazine spoken to its advertisers about their contributing prizes?
To me this serves two purposes:
1. It allows those who do not segment, do not cast, and do not do kitless to still participate.
2. It would be more likely to please the magazine's advertisers, encouraging the magazine to continue to support such events.
I'm on the fence with the entry fee. Has the magazine spoken to its advertisers about their contributing prizes?
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Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
As an advertiser in Woodturning Design, we pay handsomely for the ad---the content is under the auspices of the magazine---THEY pay for content to encourage US to pay for the readers they can reach.
I would be very surprised if they invited us to give prizes, along with paying for the ad---but we'll see.
I would be very surprised if they invited us to give prizes, along with paying for the ad---but we'll see.