dexter0606
Member
+ 1
Best of IAP 2012 Post-Contest Discussion
- Thread starter ghostrider
- Start date
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Folks, I'm discussing this with our management team. Give us a moment please :biggrin:
Jjartwood
Member
If I followed the postings correctly,there was more than a couple hours spent planning and
building pens by most.
So the time to build a pen was there, Had this been next year's contest I'm sure that my pen would have not gotten a second look,It's not a great pen ,It's a different looking pen,
and by next week the folks(like the people on this sight) will be tired of looking at them.
So STOP THIS!!!!! If your going to build pens for competition than build better pens
If, like myself, your building pens for enjoyment and relaxation then do that
Your acting like a bunch of brats,and turning on Scott the Judges or anyone else won't
make your pen any better,only YOU can do that.
sorry JMO
Mark.
building pens by most.
So the time to build a pen was there, Had this been next year's contest I'm sure that my pen would have not gotten a second look,It's not a great pen ,It's a different looking pen,
and by next week the folks(like the people on this sight) will be tired of looking at them.
So STOP THIS!!!!! If your going to build pens for competition than build better pens
If, like myself, your building pens for enjoyment and relaxation then do that
Your acting like a bunch of brats,and turning on Scott the Judges or anyone else won't
make your pen any better,only YOU can do that.
sorry JMO
Mark.
jttheclockman
Member
Who is to say they did not build them for competing??? Who says what a better pen is and if that person did all he can to make what they considered a better pen??? The bar is definetly set higher than most contests but people need to see what competion is and how they stack against them. This is the purpose of a contest. You did not see all pens. No one is acting like brats and no one is turning on anyone. A simple discussion is going on with ligit points being made and people are looking for answers.
darrin1200
Member
I would just like to begin with a congratulations to the those winners that were chosen. The pens that have been shown (as well as those posted by their creators in other threads) are truely beautiful works.
I did not do an entry this year as I didn't feel that my skills were up to this challenge, but I am already working on one for next year, if I enter it.
I have absolutely nothing against the Gisi's entering the contest. As has been mentioned before, I have seen examples on the forum that rival their work. If those people don't enter that is their decision. The Gisi's are well regarded among the pen community world wide, and having their name associated with the IAP helps to lend credence to the quality of our craft when compared to the big companies.
I was originally upset and disappointed with with two things,
1- Five positions were cut from the winners list. The rules clearly stated that there would be three winners in each category.
2- That a contest thread was not started to showcase all entries, at least on this forum. Not only do I find that disrespectful to the losing entrants, but also disrespectful to the other members of the forum that have patiently been waiting to see all the entries made by their peers.
However, now I am offended by your statement that members did not put forth their best efforts or push themselves far enough. Who are you or the judges to say who's efforts are good enough. By your criteria, Mark Gisi's pen should not have even placed. He did nothing new or special with his segmenting. He did not "push" himself. If you look at his other work, you will see that they look almost exactly the same as his entry. I actually had to look very close to see that they were not identical.
As I said earlier, I do not begrudge the Gisi's winning. My issues are solely with the judges and their treatment of the other entrants hard work and efforts.
Because of the issues surrounding these results, I am rethinking my participation in next years contest. Which is a shame, because myself and I am sure many others enjoyed the excitement and anticipation of these contest results.
As a side note, I came in second place in a downhill skiing event a "number" of years ago, Giant Slalom. There were only two participants in my catagory, but I still have a silver medal hanging on my office wall.
Once again, congratulations to all the entrants.
Andrew_K99
Member
Let's bury this abomination of a contest and focus on the the Birthday Bash! It is 3 months away and truly represents the IAP the way it should be.
AK
AK
Jjartwood
Member
I'm with you dude!!!!!!!!
LL Woodworks
Member
It bothers me that 1) non-participating "IAP Members" won
One has 5 posts in seven years and one has none that I could find. This was an IAP contest not a open pen making contest!
2) If the judges can't follow the rules that puts their credibility in question. Their job was to judge the pens submitted and award the places as per the rules i.e 1st, 2nd and 3rd for each category. They over stepped their bounds by acting as a jury - deciding what pens were not worthy of placing and executioners for not awarding the three places in each category, regardless of their quality.
This was Very POOR run contest - far from the quality that the IAP has demonstrated in the past and that the participating members are accustomed and expect. Let's hope the birthday bash is not a repeat and that the judges follow the rules.
One has 5 posts in seven years and one has none that I could find. This was an IAP contest not a open pen making contest! 2) If the judges can't follow the rules that puts their credibility in question. Their job was to judge the pens submitted and award the places as per the rules i.e 1st, 2nd and 3rd for each category. They over stepped their bounds by acting as a jury - deciding what pens were not worthy of placing and executioners for not awarding the three places in each category, regardless of their quality.
This was Very POOR run contest - far from the quality that the IAP has demonstrated in the past and that the participating members are accustomed and expect. Let's hope the birthday bash is not a repeat and that the judges follow the rules.
Can we put a hold on the lynch mob, please? Remember that everyone on the IAP is a volunteer; and while I had nothing at all to do with the contest, I certainly wouldn't want to have to face this sort of wrath over a volunteer position.
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KenV
Member
Reading through this thread, I am embarrassed!
This is not the community I thought it was. Maybe it is time to join those who seek a different attitude than a "lynching crew".
This is not the community I thought it was. Maybe it is time to join those who seek a different attitude than a "lynching crew".
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airborne_r6
Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2008
- Messages
- 279
It bothers me that 1) non-participating "IAP Members" won
Yeah I am not really sure how it can be called a Best of IAP contest when from what it looks like to me is that one of the contestants joined IAP solely to enter the contest and does not have a singe post here. "Best of Pens Sponsored by IAP" would be acceptable but "Best of IAP" is a slap in the face to the members who actually contribute to IAP.
dexter0606
Member
Suck it up buttercups! Make a better pen, win the contest. Simple.
Who cares if someone isn't a regular "poster" on the forum.
They followed the entry rules, they made a great product, they won.
Who cares if someone isn't a regular "poster" on the forum.
They followed the entry rules, they made a great product, they won.
Russianwolf
Member
Disappointing.
I'll have a statement on this issue later this evening.
First off, congratulations to the winners, and thanks to all the entrants, our judges, and especially [profile=Scott]Scott Greaves[/profile] for coordinating the contest, and [profile=khertzog]Kurt Hertzog[/profile] for coordinating the judging. A big thanks as well to Pen World Magazine for sponsoring this contest with us. I am looking forward to seeing those fine winning pens in print! We'll have them on the front page here in the coming weeks as well. There isn't a pen in the bunch that I would not be thrilled to own, and I'm sure I could say the same thing about all the entries.
I want to address two specific concerns members have expressed in the forum and via PM to me. This is going to be a little long, but stick with me as I try to manage a situation that looks different depending on your perspective and what angle you see it from. Not everyone is going to be happy, but let's see if we can't get to some middle ground.
First, there's the issue of the judges deciding not to award all the places in each category.
This is clearly not in accordance with the rules, which did indeed state: "First, Second and Third places will be awarded in each category." So why was it done? I truly believe that as Scott wrote in a post above, the judges were trying to raise the bar and deliver a true BEST OF field of winners. They found a natural breakpoint in the fields, and that happened to exclude some winning slots. Their hearts were in the right place, but it did understandably create some unhappiness. Our members appreciate adherence to clear rules, and transparency in decision-making, and a well-intentioned decision by the judges ended up frustrating some members.
Interestingly, the same thing happened last year but there was no concern or uproar over adding a finisher to one category, and eliminating three others. I believe that the judges took our lack of objection to this last year as a sign that they had some flexibility in selecting finishers. I can completely understand how they'd take that as a precedent.
In future contests:, we'll be more specific in both adhering to the published rules, and in describing the leeway judges have in awarding prizes.
Second, there's the issue that not all of the winners were "participating" members.
Actually, the rules didn't require IAP membership at all, but I fully understand that the name of the contest did imply it was for "our community". And because we're a close-knit group, less-visible or new members winning the contest was a bit of a shock. I'd be willing to bet that if we had called this the "Worldwide Pen Championship sponsored by the IAP and Pen World Magazine" that we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that sometimes we don't realize exactly how far our reach is, and we perhaps should be flattered that highly skilled penmakers are interested in a contest we sponsor.
In fact, I'd like to suggest that we consider our discovery that there are new, highly talented members among us as a silver lining in this cloud. Let's welcome and engage these folks, and indeed there may be more of them among the contest entrants we don't know about. Hopefully they'll join us in an active way to both teach and learn.
In future contests:, we'll pay more attention to the "scope" of the contest. If we want only members with a particular membership time to enter, we'll be specific about it. Otherwise we'll enthusiastically welcome all entrants and we'll be clear about it.
NOW, LET'S MOVE FORWARD!!
I am not going to suggest any modification to the contest results. The judges have spoken with good intention, and their decision will stand. Let's put a bow on this contest and let the winners enjoy their moment in the spotlight. HOWEVER! We are going to do a couple of things.
First, if you entered the contest and would like your entry fee refunded, send me a PM and your PayPal address or mailing address for a check, and I'll take care of you. No questions asked, completely between you and me. I won't even reveal if or how many people asked for refunds.
AND, I propose that we run a short contest; a "Members Choice" if you will, to select "The Best of the Rest". I'll work with our Activities Manager Mike Broberg to come up with a quick contest that will include all the non-winners from the Best Of contest, and we'll run a general poll to select the winners. I don't know if photos were taken of all the entries, but if they were and we can obtain them, we'll use those photos to level the playing field a little. We'll have some prizes, and although the winner won't end up in Pen World, our front page is a darn good place to find your pen as well.
In Summary...
Folks, thanks for your support of this contest, and for understanding that not everything goes as planned. I've had quite a lot of training in mishap investigation over my 30-year career, and the root cause of most things gone bad is either "Failure of management" or "Poor communication". In this case I can pin a little blame on both causes, and both are entirely my fault. I apologize if I let you down, and I'll do my best to avoid similar situations in the future.
I want to address two specific concerns members have expressed in the forum and via PM to me. This is going to be a little long, but stick with me as I try to manage a situation that looks different depending on your perspective and what angle you see it from. Not everyone is going to be happy, but let's see if we can't get to some middle ground.
First, there's the issue of the judges deciding not to award all the places in each category.
This is clearly not in accordance with the rules, which did indeed state: "First, Second and Third places will be awarded in each category." So why was it done? I truly believe that as Scott wrote in a post above, the judges were trying to raise the bar and deliver a true BEST OF field of winners. They found a natural breakpoint in the fields, and that happened to exclude some winning slots. Their hearts were in the right place, but it did understandably create some unhappiness. Our members appreciate adherence to clear rules, and transparency in decision-making, and a well-intentioned decision by the judges ended up frustrating some members.
Interestingly, the same thing happened last year but there was no concern or uproar over adding a finisher to one category, and eliminating three others. I believe that the judges took our lack of objection to this last year as a sign that they had some flexibility in selecting finishers. I can completely understand how they'd take that as a precedent.
In future contests:, we'll be more specific in both adhering to the published rules, and in describing the leeway judges have in awarding prizes.
Second, there's the issue that not all of the winners were "participating" members.
Actually, the rules didn't require IAP membership at all, but I fully understand that the name of the contest did imply it was for "our community". And because we're a close-knit group, less-visible or new members winning the contest was a bit of a shock. I'd be willing to bet that if we had called this the "Worldwide Pen Championship sponsored by the IAP and Pen World Magazine" that we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that sometimes we don't realize exactly how far our reach is, and we perhaps should be flattered that highly skilled penmakers are interested in a contest we sponsor.
In fact, I'd like to suggest that we consider our discovery that there are new, highly talented members among us as a silver lining in this cloud. Let's welcome and engage these folks, and indeed there may be more of them among the contest entrants we don't know about. Hopefully they'll join us in an active way to both teach and learn.
In future contests:, we'll pay more attention to the "scope" of the contest. If we want only members with a particular membership time to enter, we'll be specific about it. Otherwise we'll enthusiastically welcome all entrants and we'll be clear about it.
NOW, LET'S MOVE FORWARD!!
I am not going to suggest any modification to the contest results. The judges have spoken with good intention, and their decision will stand. Let's put a bow on this contest and let the winners enjoy their moment in the spotlight. HOWEVER! We are going to do a couple of things.
First, if you entered the contest and would like your entry fee refunded, send me a PM and your PayPal address or mailing address for a check, and I'll take care of you. No questions asked, completely between you and me. I won't even reveal if or how many people asked for refunds.
AND, I propose that we run a short contest; a "Members Choice" if you will, to select "The Best of the Rest". I'll work with our Activities Manager Mike Broberg to come up with a quick contest that will include all the non-winners from the Best Of contest, and we'll run a general poll to select the winners. I don't know if photos were taken of all the entries, but if they were and we can obtain them, we'll use those photos to level the playing field a little. We'll have some prizes, and although the winner won't end up in Pen World, our front page is a darn good place to find your pen as well.
In Summary...
Folks, thanks for your support of this contest, and for understanding that not everything goes as planned. I've had quite a lot of training in mishap investigation over my 30-year career, and the root cause of most things gone bad is either "Failure of management" or "Poor communication". In this case I can pin a little blame on both causes, and both are entirely my fault. I apologize if I let you down, and I'll do my best to avoid similar situations in the future.
jttheclockman
Member
Scott
Thanks for putting some closure to this situation. It was somewhat of an odd outcome to what should have been an exciting event.
II
Second, there's the issue that not all of the winners were "participating" members.
Actually, the rules didn't require IAP membership at all, but I fully understand that the name of the contest did imply it was for "our community". And because we're a close-knit group, less-visible or new members winning the contest was a bit of a shock. I'd be willing to bet that if we had called this the "Worldwide Pen Championship sponsored by the IAP and Pen World Magazine" that we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that sometimes we don't realize exactly how far our reach is, and we perhaps should be flattered that highly skilled penmakers are interested in a contest we sponsor.
In fact, I'd like to suggest that we consider our discovery that there are new, highly talented members among us as a silver lining in this cloud. Let's welcome and engage these folks, and indeed there may be more of them among the contest entrants we don't know about. Hopefully they'll join us in an active way to both teach and learn.
As I mentioned I did not have a horse in this race but I watched with intent because I am still abit confused what brought the Gisi's to this contest. There is no gain for them at all except ad material for their new pens which they did not need a contest for. They run ads in that magazine all the time.
As far as discovering new talent, we all know what they are capable from seeing their work sold. I do hope that they do join in and find some time for us. How much extra exposure the IAP community gains from this remains to be seen.
Anyway thanks to all who partook in the contest and I look forward to seeing the rest of the entrants. Like all new things there are growing pains and hopefully we learn from them.
Thanks for putting some closure to this situation. It was somewhat of an odd outcome to what should have been an exciting event.
II
Second, there's the issue that not all of the winners were "participating" members.
Actually, the rules didn't require IAP membership at all, but I fully understand that the name of the contest did imply it was for "our community". And because we're a close-knit group, less-visible or new members winning the contest was a bit of a shock. I'd be willing to bet that if we had called this the "Worldwide Pen Championship sponsored by the IAP and Pen World Magazine" that we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think that sometimes we don't realize exactly how far our reach is, and we perhaps should be flattered that highly skilled penmakers are interested in a contest we sponsor.
In fact, I'd like to suggest that we consider our discovery that there are new, highly talented members among us as a silver lining in this cloud. Let's welcome and engage these folks, and indeed there may be more of them among the contest entrants we don't know about. Hopefully they'll join us in an active way to both teach and learn.
As I mentioned I did not have a horse in this race but I watched with intent because I am still abit confused what brought the Gisi's to this contest. There is no gain for them at all except ad material for their new pens which they did not need a contest for. They run ads in that magazine all the time.
As far as discovering new talent, we all know what they are capable from seeing their work sold. I do hope that they do join in and find some time for us. How much extra exposure the IAP community gains from this remains to be seen.
Anyway thanks to all who partook in the contest and I look forward to seeing the rest of the entrants. Like all new things there are growing pains and hopefully we learn from them.
Tom T
Member
Thank you Jeff
I for one I love this site and the work you and your team do.
I am fairly new to site, I have learned much from all the members.
Tom
I for one I love this site and the work you and your team do.
I am fairly new to site, I have learned much from all the members.
Tom
Russianwolf
Member
I have no dog in this, but I'm still disappointed. On several fronts.
Glenn McCullough
Member
I've cared....for 8 years! It matters to some of us! Who've paved the way for you, too. it wasn't done by talk like that!
AnachitlPut
Member
All I Guna say is to those of you who wanted a third place. Is this , this contest is ment for members that are the best which mean guild members or should be guild members. If the judges say the third place pens weren't up to the mark then suck it up and putt all you frustration into winning next year.
MartinPens
Member
Jeff,
Thank you for your statements and your call to move forward.
I'm ready for the ship to sail on this and to set sights on the bash! I am disappointed that the "Best of IAP" winner has zero posts and zero threads on this forum. But it is undeniable that his work is truly amazing in the craft of penmaking. Mark Gisi, (broncomark1) I hope we get to hear more from you and get to know you on this forum. Your skills and craftsmanship would be a great addition to this evolving community which admires your work. I'm certain that if you were to participate you would be well received.
I did attempt to state my points in a manner that was clear and respectful. If anyone was offended by my points or comments, I invite you to PM me so we can resolve any ill feelings. I hope the contest continues next year with some further clarity and in the spirit of the IAP community.
The proposal for a quick "Member's Choice" contest is admirable, Jeff. I would like the option of saving my un-shown entries for the bash, personally!! Or just the pleasure of posting them in the SYOP forum is enough for me. Others have already posted their entries and we may just be able to move on and not create any further work for someone.
I'm glad Pen World and Woodturning Design has an open door toward the growing craftsmanship on this forum and I hope these relationships continue. I look forward to my issues of Pen World that come in the mail and will even look forward to the December issue. : )
If you ever wanted to know the true spirit of this forum… I believe it was exemplified (while this hoopla was going on) in a completely different thread in the "Penturners" section entitiled "See ya my friends." A wonderful show of caring, community and camaraderie.
Best Regards
Thank you for your statements and your call to move forward.
I'm ready for the ship to sail on this and to set sights on the bash! I am disappointed that the "Best of IAP" winner has zero posts and zero threads on this forum. But it is undeniable that his work is truly amazing in the craft of penmaking. Mark Gisi, (broncomark1) I hope we get to hear more from you and get to know you on this forum. Your skills and craftsmanship would be a great addition to this evolving community which admires your work. I'm certain that if you were to participate you would be well received.
I did attempt to state my points in a manner that was clear and respectful. If anyone was offended by my points or comments, I invite you to PM me so we can resolve any ill feelings. I hope the contest continues next year with some further clarity and in the spirit of the IAP community.
The proposal for a quick "Member's Choice" contest is admirable, Jeff. I would like the option of saving my un-shown entries for the bash, personally!! Or just the pleasure of posting them in the SYOP forum is enough for me. Others have already posted their entries and we may just be able to move on and not create any further work for someone.
I'm glad Pen World and Woodturning Design has an open door toward the growing craftsmanship on this forum and I hope these relationships continue. I look forward to my issues of Pen World that come in the mail and will even look forward to the December issue. : )
If you ever wanted to know the true spirit of this forum… I believe it was exemplified (while this hoopla was going on) in a completely different thread in the "Penturners" section entitiled "See ya my friends." A wonderful show of caring, community and camaraderie.
Best Regards
jttheclockman
Member
To all those that keep using the phrase SUCK IT UP, please stop. There was an unusual circumstance that happened here and was very calmly discussed. Yes it did need to be discussed as you can see it took some explanation and hopefully brought on some thoughts for next year and for any future contests held on this site. This is how things evolve and how the site grows. As I mentioned with all new adventures there are growing pains. There were some very legit questions.
So please do not put down others from voicing an opinion in a civil manner. The same words can be said to you and lets see your entries next year. Show us how it is done.
As I mentioned I too hope both Gisi's show up here and share with us their knowledge and abilities and make us better for it. I look forward to the Bash because I think I will enter a few pens this year myself. I am trying to get back to the creative way of thinking so I hope to see you all at the Bash. Maybe we will get some entries from the Gisi's. Now that would prove to be a step in the right direction.
.
Keep those lathes spinning:biggrin:
So please do not put down others from voicing an opinion in a civil manner. The same words can be said to you and lets see your entries next year. Show us how it is done.
As I mentioned I too hope both Gisi's show up here and share with us their knowledge and abilities and make us better for it. I look forward to the Bash because I think I will enter a few pens this year myself. I am trying to get back to the creative way of thinking so I hope to see you all at the Bash. Maybe we will get some entries from the Gisi's. Now that would prove to be a step in the right direction.
. Keep those lathes spinning:biggrin:
I was going to delete your post, but since it was up for 6 hours before I saw it, I'll respond.
The guild is a fine organization, but there are many fine penmakers who are not members.
Donovan
Member
I have never heard of the Gisi's not that that is very important but I had a look at their site and it is obvious that they are a professional pen manufacturing company that manufacture high end pens. That leaves me with the question, if any of the major pen companies where to enter will they be allowed? My other question is. Was the quality of the other pens that where entered so bad that the judges actually had to cut those places from the competition, i doubt it
I normally do not speak for others, but although they indeed are very talented penmakers, from what I understand it is more of a hobby than a business for them. They do have a day job unrelated to pens last I heard. Others equally talented that did enter are indeed professional in that pen making is a substantial portion or their sole source of income. If an individual employee of an pen company wants to enter a pen they made by themselves under the rules, by all means they should be allowed.
keithbyrd
Member
Sorry I'm late, I've been busy. I'm actually working full time again. But none of you care about that!
Nothing like a bit of controversy to get the blood flowing!
Martin sent me a very nice message asking me to explain why all places were not awarded. This is the answer I gave him:
Well, I'm not sure what to say. The judges have a certain amount of autonomy in what they do. They chose to award the places they did, and didn't explain themselves to me. And I didn't question them because I felt it was their decision to make. For a more thorough explanation we would need to grill the judges, and it really is not my way to second guess somebody I gave the responsibility to do something.
I can tell you that your pens, and all the others entered in this contest, easily met the criteria of entry into the categories. But entry is not winning. The judges developed their own criteria for judging, and they included a number of subjective points, such as how it felt and how it wrote. I cannot say what it might have been that caused your or any of the other pens not to place, but I do trust these judges to be able to make such decisions.
I'm sorry this is not a real answer, but it is the answer I have. I hope it does not dissuade you from participating in the future, if there are ever any more of these.
As for those of you who are unhappy about Mark and Brian Gisi winning, I have to say I am embarrassed for you. They won because their pens deserved to win! Not because they are somehow more highly regarded than you all. But because they put the work and time into their pens, and they showed it. And, there is no reason your pens could not compete with their pens. In last year's contest, there were lots of pens entered that would have competed, but this year I just felt nobody was much interested. Until there was a rush of entries at the deadline, I was contemplating cancelling the contest for lack of interest, and sending everything back without judging and no places awarded!
So, will you ever receive an adequate explanation about why all three places were not awarded? No. And that's because you won't like the answer. Well, you're adults, so I'll tell you anyway. Not all places were awarded because, although your pens were nice, they were not your best efforts! This was a "Best Of" contest. Frankly, I felt that many of the entrants were not pushing themselves. And guess what? The Gisi's won because they did push themselves.
So how do we fix this? Well, if we ever feel like subjecting ourselves to this abuse again and hold a contest next year, YOU will need to bring your "A" game! There is nothing wrong with the contest, the judges or the judging criteria. The problem is you need to COMPETE! And don't think you can't do it, you just need to care enough to do your very best.
I'm sure I have lost some friends because of these comments. I am sorry for that. But the truth is that most of you were not serious about this year's contest. The cure is to get serious!
Scott.
I did not enter a pen but I am curious - how do you determine that someone did or did not push themselves? Based on a persons level or experience and talent his/her best may not be at someone else's level but to say that they did not push themselves seems a bit over the top.
brownsfn2
Member
I know that I have not been around that long and really do not have as many posts or as much experience as the rest of you but I feel the need to comment.
This contest and seeing these pens really has me fired up. I am truly excited for what I see here. All the pens. Every single one has given me something to aspire to. I am amazed at the segmenting that some of the pens have. They are all truly works of art and I am really fired up to get into the basement and try out some of these things. I just wish this full time job did not get in the way.
As for the professional hobbyist pen makers (gisi) - I am just amazed. How do you take your hobby to the next level like that. I am not even sure how I would go about some of the designs you guys have made. I looked up the other pens you have made (used google) and I just am in awe. I so want to create something half that artistic. I am going to ask some questions on another thread about some things may have been done and hope I can learn but again fine work.
To Jeff: I hope the negativity surrounding the contest does not drive you away from hosting or sponsoring things like this. It just exposed a fairly new pen maker to a whole new world that I just did not take time to notice before. All of these pens are just exceptional and it has really inspired me to do something different. I am not sure how to go about it but that is what this forum is for. Thanks so much for the IAP. I need to get to work!
This contest and seeing these pens really has me fired up. I am truly excited for what I see here. All the pens. Every single one has given me something to aspire to. I am amazed at the segmenting that some of the pens have. They are all truly works of art and I am really fired up to get into the basement and try out some of these things. I just wish this full time job did not get in the way.
As for the professional hobbyist pen makers (gisi) - I am just amazed. How do you take your hobby to the next level like that. I am not even sure how I would go about some of the designs you guys have made. I looked up the other pens you have made (used google) and I just am in awe. I so want to create something half that artistic. I am going to ask some questions on another thread about some things may have been done and hope I can learn but again fine work.
To Jeff: I hope the negativity surrounding the contest does not drive you away from hosting or sponsoring things like this. It just exposed a fairly new pen maker to a whole new world that I just did not take time to notice before. All of these pens are just exceptional and it has really inspired me to do something different. I am not sure how to go about it but that is what this forum is for. Thanks so much for the IAP. I need to get to work!
Rmartin
Member
Thank you Jeff for your well thought out and measured response to this issue. I waited to reply until hearing from you and you didn't dissapoint. I would gladly submit a prize for a members choice contest. Please let me know if I can help.
CharlesJohnson
Member
I'm sorry.I have to say it.I think all of us would think being published as a winner in IAP's best of contest is much better,much more prestigious than a self paid add in "any" magazine.Much better advertisement.Please don't take this as negative. It's just the way you have all taught me to think of this site.
Buzzzz4
Member
Just curious, cause I haven't heard (and I don't want to rub anything into wounds). I feel like an amateur with the big dogs. What are the prizes for those who placed?
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Scott
Member
The winner of each category will get the year subscription to Pen World. Then first place in each regular category gets $50, second gets $25. In best of show first gets $100, second $50, and third gets $25.
The pens will be sent out as soon as I receive then, maybe this weekend. After I ship the pens back to their owners I will send the remainder of the money to Jeff and he will send out the prizes. Please note that if you don't want the prize you may just contact Jeff and tell him to keep it as a donation.
Congratulations to the winners.
Buzzzz4
Member
Ok. Thank you.
Kaspar
Member
I offer this in the hopes that it'll make a few folks feel better, or at least less badly. After which, comment as you wish, I have nothing further to say. Anything that makes this less fun, makes this work. I already have a job (A good one, but taxing in ways I had not imagined.)
I wanted very much to enter this contest. Time and circumstances just would not permit it. Having discovered I would have been going up against the Gisis (- Gisies? Anyway ...) I am not quite as disappointed that I could not enter. I think my design would have placed, but I know it would not have won. I can't compete - yet- with their jewelers skills. I understand those who feel that some ringers won the contest. I don't feel that way myself for reasons I will state below.
But I can assure you, that had I been able to, I would have entered even knowing the Gisis would be entering too. I would enter if Brian Grey had, or if Grayson Tighe became a member for a day just to enter. If this is about getting better than someone else more than getting better than "where you are right now" maybe, perhaps you're taking this a bit too seriously?
RE: The Gisis - I first saw their work years ago, I admired certain (not all) aspects of it and aspired to do that kind of segmenting work. I can tell you from personal experience (emails) that they were willing to answer a few short questions about how they do what they do, and coupled with my own researches (really, this stuff isn't that hard to figure out), I think I've done some good work. My point being, they have participated in the past, they were willing to help teach when asked, and as far as I'm concerned, they are members (emeriti, at least) in good standing of this board and certainly of the hobbyist penmaking community in general.
I understand how directions change, circumstance change, and time gets away from us. I myself have not been nearly as active as I want to be. There have been some mighty fine works in the SOYP and the best I can do under my own present circumstances it to periodically check that page, filter for the pens with the most responses and check them out. I regret that because not every pen that got a lot of responses seemed all that good to me (whether due to my own tastes, or some other reason) and I don't doubt I have missed pens that didn't get a lot of response but that might have gotten a comment from me. But I consider myself a member in good standing for contributions I've made in the past and hope to make in the future.
If that's not good enough, perhaps the Mods need to set minimum per anum post count for future contests. Perhaps there should be just a few (and ONLY a few) new categories next time: Alumni Entries (People with light post counts), Rookie of the Year, Tournament of Champions (past winners should perhaps be allowed into this one ONLY? ) and such.
Finally, I can appreciate that the judges (volunteers all) had a Minimum Standards Level, but to judge from the level of misunderstanding that has ensued that needs to be more clearly communicated next time, and I don't doubt that it will be. This is one extremely well-run board and an excellent online community.
I wanted very much to enter this contest. Time and circumstances just would not permit it. Having discovered I would have been going up against the Gisis (- Gisies? Anyway ...) I am not quite as disappointed that I could not enter. I think my design would have placed, but I know it would not have won. I can't compete - yet- with their jewelers skills. I understand those who feel that some ringers won the contest. I don't feel that way myself for reasons I will state below.
But I can assure you, that had I been able to, I would have entered even knowing the Gisis would be entering too. I would enter if Brian Grey had, or if Grayson Tighe became a member for a day just to enter. If this is about getting better than someone else more than getting better than "where you are right now" maybe, perhaps you're taking this a bit too seriously?
RE: The Gisis - I first saw their work years ago, I admired certain (not all) aspects of it and aspired to do that kind of segmenting work. I can tell you from personal experience (emails) that they were willing to answer a few short questions about how they do what they do, and coupled with my own researches (really, this stuff isn't that hard to figure out), I think I've done some good work. My point being, they have participated in the past, they were willing to help teach when asked, and as far as I'm concerned, they are members (emeriti, at least) in good standing of this board and certainly of the hobbyist penmaking community in general.
I understand how directions change, circumstance change, and time gets away from us. I myself have not been nearly as active as I want to be. There have been some mighty fine works in the SOYP and the best I can do under my own present circumstances it to periodically check that page, filter for the pens with the most responses and check them out. I regret that because not every pen that got a lot of responses seemed all that good to me (whether due to my own tastes, or some other reason) and I don't doubt I have missed pens that didn't get a lot of response but that might have gotten a comment from me. But I consider myself a member in good standing for contributions I've made in the past and hope to make in the future.
If that's not good enough, perhaps the Mods need to set minimum per anum post count for future contests. Perhaps there should be just a few (and ONLY a few) new categories next time: Alumni Entries (People with light post counts), Rookie of the Year, Tournament of Champions (past winners should perhaps be allowed into this one ONLY? ) and such.
Finally, I can appreciate that the judges (volunteers all) had a Minimum Standards Level, but to judge from the level of misunderstanding that has ensued that needs to be more clearly communicated next time, and I don't doubt that it will be. This is one extremely well-run board and an excellent online community.
MartinPens
Member
My hope is that next year the contest will be structured in such a way that the winning participants will be contributing members of the forum. The word "of" is a very small word, but it has meaning. It's satisfying to congratulate someone who has been an active part of discussions and contributions. This is a fun community with lots of talent and I'm glad to be a participant - to be "of" the IAP in a real way.
Thanks for helping the ship to sail on this, Jeff.
Perhaps when the waters calm, a discussion can come about as to how to structure next years "Best Of IAP"
Thanks for helping the ship to sail on this, Jeff.
Perhaps when the waters calm, a discussion can come about as to how to structure next years "Best Of IAP"