ghostrider
Member
congrats to everyone, and thanks to IAP for putting this on.
Best of IAP 2012 Post-Contest Discussion
- Thread starter ghostrider
- Start date
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Curly
Member
Congratulations to the winners and thanks for letting me play too. 
Buzzzz4
Member
Great contest, and am thrilled to have placed this year with such amazing talent around. Thank you for the work you put into it Scott and for the judges work as well. Could you share how many entries were in each category?
Jjartwood
Member
Beyond excited!!!!!!!
To even be considered as being able to run with this pack is a major high point for me.
Thank You
Mark
To even be considered as being able to run with this pack is a major high point for me.
Thank You
Mark
robersonjr
Member
What talent, they are all winners.
paintspill
Member
i realize this would be a lot of work but anyway the winning pens could be posted in this thread, either photos or links.?? sorry never mind, guess that'll teach me to skip the fine print
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Andrew_K99
Member
Congratulations to all.
As it was a best of IAP I think there should be a minimum post count to participate, two very inactive members that obviously are professionals taking the top spots make me glad I didn't bother and will prevent me from participating next year.
AK
As it was a best of IAP I think there should be a minimum post count to participate, two very inactive members that obviously are professionals taking the top spots make me glad I didn't bother and will prevent me from participating next year.
AK
Can you tell us what their IAP handles are please?
I recognised the Gisi designs from the photos that Kurt posted but I had to go historic to find that they were even still IAP members.
I'm a bit dissapointed that the rest of the entries didn't even warrant a placing by the judges. I think all the entries are great and have done the IAP proud. Well done guys!!
I recognised the Gisi designs from the photos that Kurt posted but I had to go historic to find that they were even still IAP members.
I'm a bit dissapointed that the rest of the entries didn't even warrant a placing by the judges. I think all the entries are great and have done the IAP proud. Well done guys!!
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Cover story in a major pen magazine is going to pull in some "big guns"! Certainly professional penmakers, who "raise the bar". Will give them substantial free advertising.
Yeah, but imagine if you entered and beat them. It only makes me want to improve (and glad they weren't in it last year
)
I knew this would happen sooner or later. Its sooner. Open the doors and let the big dogs run. Pick yourself up and build a pen that competes on their level. The challange is the best Of Iap. They could join 2 days before they submit a pen and they qualify to enter. I knew my entry this year was a ho hum, I just made sure I got an entry in. Im looking forward to next year. Hopefully I wont get swamped just before the contest.
bgisi
Member
Congratulations to all entrants
First and foremost, congratulations to all who entered the contest. Some amazing work with clever techniques and excellent execution. Those who know me know I am not a professional pen maker by any stretch of the imagination. Like the rest of you, I hope to move a few pens on occasion to fund the effort. Sometimes it works some times it does not. There are collectors who resell my stuff and even those who capitalize on my name. But for me, it is what I do when I have some free time to do what I want vs. what I have to do. I am also not particularly active in the online pen community. Time is often in short supply and seems I always spend the "pen time" I do have with my Dad in his basement or on my couch with my files and sandpaper. But, this sites is an inspiration with a lot of talent. And, win or lose, a good competition always seems to energize the creativity and drive a passion for what I think is an excellent diversion from the "have to" activities in life. Exposure in Pen World is great thing for the IAP. A talented group of people with vast array of skills and approaches. It is not about personal advertising or exposure. It is about a segment of the pen world that is often overshadowed by the big commercial market. If it makes some of you feel better, post my work as annonymous.
I have and will continue to gain inspiration from the talents on this site. And I hope to contribute on a more frequent basis in the future. Thank you Scott and all the judges for the hard work that goes into these contests.
Brian Gisi
First and foremost, congratulations to all who entered the contest. Some amazing work with clever techniques and excellent execution. Those who know me know I am not a professional pen maker by any stretch of the imagination. Like the rest of you, I hope to move a few pens on occasion to fund the effort. Sometimes it works some times it does not. There are collectors who resell my stuff and even those who capitalize on my name. But for me, it is what I do when I have some free time to do what I want vs. what I have to do. I am also not particularly active in the online pen community. Time is often in short supply and seems I always spend the "pen time" I do have with my Dad in his basement or on my couch with my files and sandpaper. But, this sites is an inspiration with a lot of talent. And, win or lose, a good competition always seems to energize the creativity and drive a passion for what I think is an excellent diversion from the "have to" activities in life. Exposure in Pen World is great thing for the IAP. A talented group of people with vast array of skills and approaches. It is not about personal advertising or exposure. It is about a segment of the pen world that is often overshadowed by the big commercial market. If it makes some of you feel better, post my work as annonymous.
I have and will continue to gain inspiration from the talents on this site. And I hope to contribute on a more frequent basis in the future. Thank you Scott and all the judges for the hard work that goes into these contests.
Brian Gisi
Mike and Bruce,
We know that they were eligible to enter but none of these big names need to enter any contest, least of all one with IAP, to get featured in a magazine. Any mag would happily feature such serious guys because it would help sell more mags.
I think the issue here is that 'we' all expected to compete for something that would be a once in a lifetime event for most of us, and to do so with and against our peers. Remember that the contest was called Best Of IAP, not best of PMG or FPN. But I think that the thing that hurts the most is that several entries weren't even deemed fit enough to be mentioned and the second and third placing were simply cancelled.
I didn't enter so don't think it's sour grapes on my part. :biggrin::wink:
We know that they were eligible to enter but none of these big names need to enter any contest, least of all one with IAP, to get featured in a magazine. Any mag would happily feature such serious guys because it would help sell more mags.
I think the issue here is that 'we' all expected to compete for something that would be a once in a lifetime event for most of us, and to do so with and against our peers. Remember that the contest was called Best Of IAP, not best of PMG or FPN. But I think that the thing that hurts the most is that several entries weren't even deemed fit enough to be mentioned and the second and third placing were simply cancelled.
I didn't enter so don't think it's sour grapes on my part. :biggrin::wink:
Brian, you and your brother inspire us to achieve the level of design and execution that goes in to making your pens. I will not copy your style but I will use it to push me past my current level of design. I know that I can compete on the level of pen making you have achieved. There will always be those that need to improve to be competitive and will not enter because they will not win. For me its "paying your dues" I make very few pens, I just finished my 50th. I will not quit because I am out gunned or out designed, but will dig deeper and harder to make that one pen that stand out in a field of superior design and production. I applaud your efforts and rewards.
Well it is one of my entries that wasn't fit.
Yes it is a once in a lifetime to get in a magazine like PenWorld but perhaps even more important is that IAP and independent pen makers get recognition. Being represented by talent such as Brian and Mark can only improve the image of all of us to a community who has long considered what many of us do as inferior. After all, isn't anyone who sells a pen a professional? Many who commonly post here sell pens in the same price range as the winners. The bash has plenty of contests for peers. This is for the best. (still your friend)
Jim15
Member
Congratulations to all the winners. Thanks to all that entered.
MartinPens
Member
The best of IAP represented by fantastic artists! However - It would feel different if they were artists that have actually been an active part of this community. They are IAP Members and the rules allow it - and that is that.
What really gets me is that 3rd place was not recognized! Someone's hard work and creativity was completely eliminated by that decision. Not a good decision in my opinion and it is not consistent with the rules outlined in the beginning. The fact that some of the winners (prior to this thread) have all of four posts in this forum's history - AND others who paid money to submit their work were denied placement
(!!!!!) really sours this whole thing for me.
I am thankful for all those who worked so hard to bring this about - but parts of it really need to be hashed out and I think a statement (apology) is in line for the elimination of the third place spots.
Regards
What really gets me is that 3rd place was not recognized! Someone's hard work and creativity was completely eliminated by that decision. Not a good decision in my opinion and it is not consistent with the rules outlined in the beginning. The fact that some of the winners (prior to this thread) have all of four posts in this forum's history - AND others who paid money to submit their work were denied placement
(!!!!!) really sours this whole thing for me.I am thankful for all those who worked so hard to bring this about - but parts of it really need to be hashed out and I think a statement (apology) is in line for the elimination of the third place spots.
Regards
Glenn McCullough
Member
You asked and you got entries, this is what you got.
Imagine that, the best just wasn't good enough to have a third place? Where and who decided the line in the sand was drawn? Was it that the rest were not good enough to be shown in Penworld Magazine and it would be an embarrassment to even show them? There was no specification that it had to meet minimum standards to be considered, but the best quality of those entered! You should fill those spots!!!
I entered and am not mentioned, it's ok. Each if us should know what the reason was for leaving a vancancy in the 3rd category, that it was not even good enough to fill a vacant spot. How can I get to the next level if I don't get even that!! .
Most contests even have an "honorable mention" category?! None even good enough to get that?
I have been making pens a long time, have known, respect and applaude the winners, they deserve their recognition. My beef is not with them, but with the judges decision to not fiill the third spots!
How sad.
Imagine that, the best just wasn't good enough to have a third place? Where and who decided the line in the sand was drawn? Was it that the rest were not good enough to be shown in Penworld Magazine and it would be an embarrassment to even show them? There was no specification that it had to meet minimum standards to be considered, but the best quality of those entered! You should fill those spots!!!
I entered and am not mentioned, it's ok. Each if us should know what the reason was for leaving a vancancy in the 3rd category, that it was not even good enough to fill a vacant spot. How can I get to the next level if I don't get even that!! .
Most contests even have an "honorable mention" category?! None even good enough to get that?
I have been making pens a long time, have known, respect and applaude the winners, they deserve their recognition. My beef is not with them, but with the judges decision to not fiill the third spots!
How sad.
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Texatdurango
Member
Well Scott, it looks like the only thing this little contest has done is to get the Gisi's some free advertising in a magazine! And I'm sure that there are many members asking... who the heck are these guys, they are not from around here!"
I think the downside is that many "Real" IAP members feel let down and like Martin said above, it isn't fair that so many paid their entry fees with the expectation that they stood a chance to win among their fellow IAP members.
The whole thing looks a bit lopsided and I don't understand the segmented class at all. You said there were four entries yet only the first place was announced. Were all four entries from Mark Gisi so the judges chose to just list his name once or were the other submissions just ignored all together?
I could go on but it's best I stop now before I say something that would probably get me banned!
I think the downside is that many "Real" IAP members feel let down and like Martin said above, it isn't fair that so many paid their entry fees with the expectation that they stood a chance to win among their fellow IAP members.
The whole thing looks a bit lopsided and I don't understand the segmented class at all. You said there were four entries yet only the first place was announced. Were all four entries from Mark Gisi so the judges chose to just list his name once or were the other submissions just ignored all together?
I could go on but it's best I stop now before I say something that would probably get me banned!
Ed McDonnell
Member
I had no idea what to expect when I entered this contest. I pushed myself to my limits in creating my entries. One was lucky enough to be judged a winner in the category in which I entered it. The other....well I learned a lot making it. The real prize for me is the degree to which I advanced my pen making skills by working to create my entries. I've still got a long way to go to get to where I want to be as a pen maker. As a result of this competition, I'm a little bit closer. That's a good thing.
I wouldn't want to discourage anybody from entering the competition for any reason. The bigger the challenge, the more I push myself to advance my skills. Now that I've seen what it took to win this year, I'll work even harder (and start sooner) for next year. If there is a next year.
Some things I would change are:
I would like to see every pen that is entered recognized as an entry in an official posting of entry pictures on the forum. Everyone who entered put a lot of effort into their entry. The least they should get is a chance for the other IAP members to see their hard work in the context of other entries.
I would like to see the judges record their comments on each pen and provide that feedback to the entrants. What an opportunity! A chance to learn what someone, who has likely had hands on experience with some of the finest writing instruments (contemporary or vintage) in the world, thinks of your work effort. To me, that would be worth far more than any prize that could be offered.
I would like to see a little more action during the contest. Maybe the entries could be revealed periodically (selected at random) while the judging takes place. After working so hard to create the pens, mailing them in and then waiting 6 weeks to hear something was kind of a let down. And having the results dribbled out was about as anti-climatic as you could get. It's almost like the contest organizers regretted having launched the contest.
I think eliminating the third and second finish slots was a big mistake. The magazines don't have to publish any pictures they don't want to publish. But to just announce that third (and in one case even second) place was eliminated seems very unfair to the competitors who worked so hard and who were willing to take a chance on having their work judged. It's not the kind of thing that encourages people to take a chance and enter their work. Anybody entering this had to expect that there was a good chance of not winning. I don't think anybody expected being told their work was so bad that winning spots were eliminated rather than having to recognize the inferior work. To be fair, I doubt anybody with the contest intended that to be the message to the contestants. But how could the contestants interpret it in any other way? Especially when no explanation was given. Maybe it was as simple as the judges not being able to agree on the positions that were eliminated. Each judge with their own choice. Whatever the case, eliminating winning positions seems the least desirable outcome.
Ed
I wouldn't want to discourage anybody from entering the competition for any reason. The bigger the challenge, the more I push myself to advance my skills. Now that I've seen what it took to win this year, I'll work even harder (and start sooner) for next year. If there is a next year.
Some things I would change are:
I would like to see every pen that is entered recognized as an entry in an official posting of entry pictures on the forum. Everyone who entered put a lot of effort into their entry. The least they should get is a chance for the other IAP members to see their hard work in the context of other entries.
I would like to see the judges record their comments on each pen and provide that feedback to the entrants. What an opportunity! A chance to learn what someone, who has likely had hands on experience with some of the finest writing instruments (contemporary or vintage) in the world, thinks of your work effort. To me, that would be worth far more than any prize that could be offered.
I would like to see a little more action during the contest. Maybe the entries could be revealed periodically (selected at random) while the judging takes place. After working so hard to create the pens, mailing them in and then waiting 6 weeks to hear something was kind of a let down. And having the results dribbled out was about as anti-climatic as you could get. It's almost like the contest organizers regretted having launched the contest.
I think eliminating the third and second finish slots was a big mistake. The magazines don't have to publish any pictures they don't want to publish. But to just announce that third (and in one case even second) place was eliminated seems very unfair to the competitors who worked so hard and who were willing to take a chance on having their work judged. It's not the kind of thing that encourages people to take a chance and enter their work. Anybody entering this had to expect that there was a good chance of not winning. I don't think anybody expected being told their work was so bad that winning spots were eliminated rather than having to recognize the inferior work. To be fair, I doubt anybody with the contest intended that to be the message to the contestants. But how could the contestants interpret it in any other way? Especially when no explanation was given. Maybe it was as simple as the judges not being able to agree on the positions that were eliminated. Each judge with their own choice. Whatever the case, eliminating winning positions seems the least desirable outcome.
Ed
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jttheclockman
Member
I looked at the winners and hope that at some time all the entrys will be shown with the names next to them. All were very well done and deserve recognition. I as a pen maker and blank maker can appreciate the time and effort in making these creations. I came back to the site abit too late to participate but hopefull this contest will exist next year and I will give it a stab.
I congradulate all participants and the winners. Good job.
I agree about the mention of the different placings. When have you ever seen a contest where there are entries in a catagory and they did not see runners up to the first place winner. That is a slap in the face and needs to be explained by some one. Not good at all.
I know this is a prestigeous magazine and I as well as everyone here appreciate the oportunity they have given members here to be a small part of this but on the other hand people did take the time and made the effort to meet the requirements asked for so some form of recognition should be passed on.
As far as Brian Gisi taking part in the contest is pulling me in 2 directions. I know it is open to all members but it has beeen some time since he has partaken here and hopefull he does stay and become more active but to come out of the woodwork means he has been following. Sort of blindsided on this one. I would have entered the segmenting catagory and would have welcomed the challenge so in that respect I have no ill feelings but it does leave abit of sour grapes taste in the members mouth and undestandably so. People here were trying to get recognized for a few mere seconds and you have a proven big name enter is like having Mount Blanc put in an entry. I will let that one settle on its own but it will not deter me from entering next year and look forward to the challenge.
I congradulate all participants and the winners. Good job.
I agree about the mention of the different placings. When have you ever seen a contest where there are entries in a catagory and they did not see runners up to the first place winner. That is a slap in the face and needs to be explained by some one. Not good at all.
I know this is a prestigeous magazine and I as well as everyone here appreciate the oportunity they have given members here to be a small part of this but on the other hand people did take the time and made the effort to meet the requirements asked for so some form of recognition should be passed on.
As far as Brian Gisi taking part in the contest is pulling me in 2 directions. I know it is open to all members but it has beeen some time since he has partaken here and hopefull he does stay and become more active but to come out of the woodwork means he has been following. Sort of blindsided on this one. I would have entered the segmenting catagory and would have welcomed the challenge so in that respect I have no ill feelings but it does leave abit of sour grapes taste in the members mouth and undestandably so. People here were trying to get recognized for a few mere seconds and you have a proven big name enter is like having Mount Blanc put in an entry. I will let that one settle on its own but it will not deter me from entering next year and look forward to the challenge.
Haynie
Member
There are only a few people whose actual name I know around here. Any way to put their forum id next to the names. I don't recognize most of them folks.
alamocdc
Member
My sincere congratulations to the winners! Very well deserved. Like others, I would love to see all the entries. I was another "returnee" who did not see the contest early enough to get in. And to tell the truth, I'm not sure I would have, but that is merely a personal thing. Do I worry about not being able to compete against the truly admirable tallents of those like the Gisi's? Not at all. Many "more regular" IAP members can and have created equally stunning pens. But site regularity was not a contest requirement.
Yes, I would like to see the Gisi's post here more often. But only because I feel they have alot to offer the community. Sour grapes only tend to drive people away. And that is not what this site is about.
Yes, I would like to see the Gisi's post here more often. But only because I feel they have alot to offer the community. Sour grapes only tend to drive people away. And that is not what this site is about.
MartinPens
Member
Scott,
Can you share why the third place (and second place) slots were not filled? It is my strong feeling that if pens in each category were submitted with entrance fees, qualified and were judged, that each category should show a first, second and third placement as stated in the onset of the Best of IAP rules. Thank you.
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Can you share why the third place (and second place) slots were not filled? It is my strong feeling that if pens in each category were submitted with entrance fees, qualified and were judged, that each category should show a first, second and third placement as stated in the onset of the Best of IAP rules. Thank you.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
philb
Member
Is there any chance of having a thread or page with the pen pics and the names/username of the submitee?
Just so we can see who posted what? Now sure if it's possible?
PHIL
Just so we can see who posted what? Now sure if it's possible?
PHIL
jttheclockman
Member
Phil this is the digital world. Anything is possible and I am sure this is being worked on. We all want the same thing.
Texatdurango
Member
I didn't participate in the contest but I would be interested in seeing who all submitted what pens and which ones made the final three in each category
It would be like flipping through the SOYP...... on steroids!
It would be like flipping through the SOYP...... on steroids!
TomW
Member
I dont understand. It's pretty easy to see the contest place, the picture and the screen name...just takes 3 windows...:biggrin:
Tom
Attachments
gwilki
Member
I'm with Phil concerning how the winners' pics are presented. Scott's link takes me to page showing the pics of the winners, but they are show as being presented by KHertzog.I can bounce back and forth between the text in this thread and the pics, but surely the makers' names should be shown next to their winning submission.
I will put a winners thread together tonight.
LL Woodworks
Member
Should be one screen.
gwilki
Member
Tks much, Jeff.
MartinPens
Member
A thread showing first, second and third places in each category would be appropriate.
I haven't gotten any PM's or responses concerning first second and third spots being filled by qualifying paid entrants. Is this going to be addressed? I will stay pleasant and seek the proper channels, but I will not likely drop the topic until it is addressed.
Regards
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lion6255
Member
Congrats there is some awesome work there!
Scott
Member
Sorry I'm late, I've been busy. I'm actually working full time again. But none of you care about that!
Nothing like a bit of controversy to get the blood flowing!
Martin sent me a very nice message asking me to explain why all places were not awarded. This is the answer I gave him:
Well, I'm not sure what to say. The judges have a certain amount of autonomy in what they do. They chose to award the places they did, and didn't explain themselves to me. And I didn't question them because I felt it was their decision to make. For a more thorough explanation we would need to grill the judges, and it really is not my way to second guess somebody I gave the responsibility to do something.
I can tell you that your pens, and all the others entered in this contest, easily met the criteria of entry into the categories. But entry is not winning. The judges developed their own criteria for judging, and they included a number of subjective points, such as how it felt and how it wrote. I cannot say what it might have been that caused your or any of the other pens not to place, but I do trust these judges to be able to make such decisions.
I'm sorry this is not a real answer, but it is the answer I have. I hope it does not dissuade you from participating in the future, if there are ever any more of these.
As for those of you who are unhappy about Mark and Brian Gisi winning, I have to say I am embarrassed for you. They won because their pens deserved to win! Not because they are somehow more highly regarded than you all. But because they put the work and time into their pens, and they showed it. And, there is no reason your pens could not compete with their pens. In last year's contest, there were lots of pens entered that would have competed, but this year I just felt nobody was much interested. Until there was a rush of entries at the deadline, I was contemplating cancelling the contest for lack of interest, and sending everything back without judging and no places awarded!
So, will you ever receive an adequate explanation about why all three places were not awarded? No. And that's because you won't like the answer. Well, you're adults, so I'll tell you anyway. Not all places were awarded because, although your pens were nice, they were not your best efforts! This was a "Best Of" contest. Frankly, I felt that many of the entrants were not pushing themselves. And guess what? The Gisi's won because they did push themselves.
So how do we fix this? Well, if we ever feel like subjecting ourselves to this abuse again and hold a contest next year, YOU will need to bring your "A" game! There is nothing wrong with the contest, the judges or the judging criteria. The problem is you need to COMPETE! And don't think you can't do it, you just need to care enough to do your very best.
I'm sure I have lost some friends because of these comments. I am sorry for that. But the truth is that most of you were not serious about this year's contest. The cure is to get serious!
Scott.
Nothing like a bit of controversy to get the blood flowing!
Martin sent me a very nice message asking me to explain why all places were not awarded. This is the answer I gave him:
Well, I'm not sure what to say. The judges have a certain amount of autonomy in what they do. They chose to award the places they did, and didn't explain themselves to me. And I didn't question them because I felt it was their decision to make. For a more thorough explanation we would need to grill the judges, and it really is not my way to second guess somebody I gave the responsibility to do something.
I can tell you that your pens, and all the others entered in this contest, easily met the criteria of entry into the categories. But entry is not winning. The judges developed their own criteria for judging, and they included a number of subjective points, such as how it felt and how it wrote. I cannot say what it might have been that caused your or any of the other pens not to place, but I do trust these judges to be able to make such decisions.
I'm sorry this is not a real answer, but it is the answer I have. I hope it does not dissuade you from participating in the future, if there are ever any more of these.
As for those of you who are unhappy about Mark and Brian Gisi winning, I have to say I am embarrassed for you. They won because their pens deserved to win! Not because they are somehow more highly regarded than you all. But because they put the work and time into their pens, and they showed it. And, there is no reason your pens could not compete with their pens. In last year's contest, there were lots of pens entered that would have competed, but this year I just felt nobody was much interested. Until there was a rush of entries at the deadline, I was contemplating cancelling the contest for lack of interest, and sending everything back without judging and no places awarded!
So, will you ever receive an adequate explanation about why all three places were not awarded? No. And that's because you won't like the answer. Well, you're adults, so I'll tell you anyway. Not all places were awarded because, although your pens were nice, they were not your best efforts! This was a "Best Of" contest. Frankly, I felt that many of the entrants were not pushing themselves. And guess what? The Gisi's won because they did push themselves.
So how do we fix this? Well, if we ever feel like subjecting ourselves to this abuse again and hold a contest next year, YOU will need to bring your "A" game! There is nothing wrong with the contest, the judges or the judging criteria. The problem is you need to COMPETE! And don't think you can't do it, you just need to care enough to do your very best.
I'm sure I have lost some friends because of these comments. I am sorry for that. But the truth is that most of you were not serious about this year's contest. The cure is to get serious!
Scott.
Mapster
Member
Poor... This is not what the IAP stands for, and certainly not what aspiring penmakers deserve from this site
MartinPens
Member
Please send me my 104 piece segmented non-serious pen back to me. Thank you.
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Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
firewhatfire
Member
I was one of the non selected pens from last year. I knew mine was not perfect and also knew that it was still my best work. It was judged as not being worthy of winning nor placing in the competition. It has made me a better pen maker because of it. I reevaluated my process and planned on entering this year. My pen while being far better than last years still had flaws that i knew would keep me from placing so they were not entered. It just made me even more aware of how far I have to go to be where I want to be. After seeing the winners this year, I am certain the skill level of the group is being elevated by a little friendly competition.
I am pleased to see the Gisi family posting and a huge congrats to them. I do hope they continue posting and look forward to challenging them in next years competition.
Thanks to the judges and IAP persons involved in putting this and other events on.
Phil Morris
I am pleased to see the Gisi family posting and a huge congrats to them. I do hope they continue posting and look forward to challenging them in next years competition.
Thanks to the judges and IAP persons involved in putting this and other events on.
Phil Morris
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jttheclockman
Member
Sorry I'm late, I've been busy. I'm actually working full time again. But none of you care about that!
Nothing like a bit of controversy to get the blood flowing!
Martin sent me a very nice message asking me to explain why all places were not awarded. This is the answer I gave him:
Well, I'm not sure what to say. The judges have a certain amount of autonomy in what they do. They chose to award the places they did, and didn't explain themselves to me. And I didn't question them because I felt it was their decision to make. For a more thorough explanation we would need to grill the judges, and it really is not my way to second guess somebody I gave the responsibility to do something.
I can tell you that your pens, and all the others entered in this contest, easily met the criteria of entry into the categories. But entry is not winning. The judges developed their own criteria for judging, and they included a number of subjective points, such as how it felt and how it wrote. I cannot say what it might have been that caused your or any of the other pens not to place, but I do trust these judges to be able to make such decisions.
I'm sorry this is not a real answer, but it is the answer I have. I hope it does not dissuade you from participating in the future, if there are ever any more of these.
As for those of you who are unhappy about Mark and Brian Gisi winning, I have to say I am embarrassed for you. They won because their pens deserved to win! Not because they are somehow more highly regarded than you all. But because they put the work and time into their pens, and they showed it. And, there is no reason your pens could not compete with their pens. In last year's contest, there were lots of pens entered that would have competed, but this year I just felt nobody was much interested. Until there was a rush of entries at the deadline, I was contemplating cancelling the contest for lack of interest, and sending everything back without judging and no places awarded!
So, will you ever receive an adequate explanation about why all three places were not awarded? No. And that's because you won't like the answer. Well, you're adults, so I'll tell you anyway. Not all places were awarded because, although your pens were nice, they were not your best efforts! This was a "Best Of" contest. Frankly, I felt that many of the entrants were not pushing themselves. And guess what? The Gisi's won because they did push themselves.
So how do we fix this? Well, if we ever feel like subjecting ourselves to this abuse again and hold a contest next year, YOU will need to bring your "A" game! There is nothing wrong with the contest, the judges or the judging criteria. The problem is you need to COMPETE! And don't think you can't do it, you just need to care enough to do your very best.
I'm sure I have lost some friends because of these comments. I am sorry for that. But the truth is that most of you were not serious about this year's contest. The cure is to get serious!
Scott.
In case you all want to see some other creations by a couple amatuers check these out. Results for Gisi Pens Now I am sure they made those pens just for the contest:biggrin: Or maybe they had them laying around and wanted to launch them. They are no strangers to the magazine so I am sure they will fit right in.
Scott
Let me ask you, do you think this entries by them represent the IAP fairly and just. ????
When you say that others pens did not measure up, what are you comparing to??? If you are comparing to the Gisi's then good luck finding competators next year. Not many people on this site have the ability to cast their own parts that I have seen.
As far as the judges and I assume you made your comments from talking to them as to why there were no full positions in each catagory??? People did send money to get judged. That would have been at least a civil thing to do.
I do hope all entries are shown here at least with the names.
I did not have a horse in this race but just voicing an opinion.
On another note I think Best in show should have been reversed between the 2 of them. It took way more talent and time to make the second place pen than the first in my opinion.
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Lucky2
Member
This is sad, the judges have the right to judge, but they should not have the right to not award prizes just because they didn't like what they saw. As long as there were enough entries to cover the prizes that were to be awarded, then that is what they had to judge. Yes maybe there are better pens out there, but, they weren't entered into this contest so what was should have been judged and awarded a prize for the position that they place in. Yes they may have wanted to judge more or better pens, but, if those pens aren't entered, then they should have to judge what is and award the prizes accordingly. This is the first time that I've ever heard of something like this being done, and I can well understand people being upset with the matter. I know if I had entered and this kind of bull had happened, I'd be livid. What I would like to know is, did this happen because they didn't think that the pens were good enough to grace the pages of a magazine? Because, that's what it seems like.
Len
Len