Berea now has computer circuit board blank kits

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BruceK

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Bruce,

So you only get one crummy kit as a "reward" for them using your idea? That's a pretty low blow on Berea's part.

I don't think you have to worry one bit about them taking away any of the demand for your blanks. I have 5 of your blanks stashed away and almost bought some more when you last posted, but figured I'd wouldn't be to greedy. I like the "uniqueness" of yours and that no two are the same. I imagine the Berea ones will all be same thing. At least we here at IAP know where the credit is due.
 

Grizz

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Hey Grizz

Just wanted to compliment you on your web site. Very well done.
Thanks, I just need to keep up with it better. Christmas came and many things went. I'm sure I'll go a while now with out selling anything and can get caught up.
 

wizical

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. Some people will claim that all is fail in capitalism and war, but just because it's a capitalist society does not negate respect or giving credit where credit is due.

There's two types of people in the world, I know which I am.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on giving credit to where it is due, and all credit to Bruce for making these really cool pen blanks. I think they are great and look good when they are done.

If I have a product that I think that will make a lot of money, I will do anything in my power to either sell it to a company or get it copyright/trademark, whatever.

Every situation is different when it comes to this stuff, The bullet pen is interesting enough, but if the product from PSI isnt that good, then dont buy it(the same applies to this blank)

im very appreciative we have this forum to discuss and spread our opinion about the art of penmaking. Companies are going to pop up with similar products and offer similar products,but in the end result, this will give us more choices when we are ready to buy. This process will also weed out the bad items to make sure we have quality products to buy.

bottomline, if bruce's blanks are better than berea's. Then we will continue to buy from him and not from berea.
 

TribalRR

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I for one think this is BS and not only will I not buy Berea's PCB kit, I will no longer buy anything from them! They could have atleast gave him credit for the design.
 

babyblues

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What.... IAP members jump the gun? Never! :wink:

Man, it is SO easy to get a dogpile going around here and it is hilarious to watch so many make such bold statements without having a clue as to what the facts are.

For anyone interested in a fact.... I went back and read Bruce's original post made back in May 2008 where he first introduced his circuit board pen and he said in part...


So, it looks like someone else had developed a method of casting a circuit board in resin before Bruce... perhaps it was THAT person who got with Berea, wouldn't that be a hoot!

The simple fact is that we just don't know any of the facts but hey, don't let the lack of any factual data get in the way of a good lynching!

Mob mentality.... you gotta love it! :tongue:
Great post, George!

Did anyone see this post?! Here's the link to the thread in the Show Off Your Pens forum where Bruce posted a picture of his circuit board pen. He admits in the first paragraph that IT'S NOT HIS IDEA!!!!!!!!!

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6766&highlight=circuit+board

Bruce,
I appreciate the work that you put into your blanks, and I will say that if I ever want to buy a circuit board blank, I will buy one of yours. But the fact that you admitted it wasn't your original idea, then came on here and implied that Berea has done you some wrong by taking your idea is not being truthful.
 
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Gary Max

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Gee I wonder if that's why some members stop posting pics of their newest designer pen here?????????????
Bruce I know what you mean about making ends meet---heck we are trying to keep the heat on this year.
 

Skye

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Rock Hill, SC
But the fact that you admitted it wasn't your original idea, then came on here and implied that Berea has done you some wrong by taking your idea is pretty deceitful.
Deceitful? He's hid nothing so either you've got either a loose understanding of the English language or a loose understanding of the situation. Possibly both.

Bruce admitted he saw it somewhere else but couldn't remember where and was not able to give the person credit. There's absolutly no deceit in anything he's done or said.

The bottom line is that Berea, thinking it was solely Bruce's idea, stepped in and told him that they were going to start selling them. Regardless of who's idea it was in it's very infancy, Berea stepped in and basically said "I'll be taking those sales from you, thanks." Same bull as Penn State with the bullet pen idea. It's the person with the most money and resources taking fresh ideas from the smaller, shipping work overseas, producing an inferior product, and selling to the uninformed masses. But hey, if that's your bag....
 

PR_Princess

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I think what happened to Bruce is a travesty. It was predicable, but it still saddens me. Worse, I believe that things like this will only serve to stymie creativity and the furtherance of pen turning in the long term.

But you guys are the customers. The pen supply buyers. No matter where you stand on this issue, perhaps you should let your feelings be heard more directly.

Here is a link to Berea's "Contact Us" page -

http://bereahardwoods.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=cp-contact-us
 

babyblues

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Deceitful? He's hid nothing so either you've got either a loose understanding of the English language or a loose understanding of the situation. Possibly both.

Bruce admitted he saw it somewhere else but couldn't remember where and was not able to give the person credit. There's absolutly no deceit in anything he's done or said.

The bottom line is that Berea, thinking it was solely Bruce's idea, stepped in and told him that they were going to start selling them. Regardless of who's idea it was in it's very infancy, Berea stepped in and basically said "I'll be taking those sales from you, thanks." Same bull as Penn State with the bullet pen idea. It's the person with the most money and resources taking fresh ideas from the smaller, shipping work overseas, producing an inferior product, and selling to the uninformed masses. But hey, if that's your bag....
OK, if you want to do this publicly, we'll do it publicly.

First: For the record, I changed my post. "Deceitful" was a bit strong so I thought better of it.

Second: Correct me if I'm wrong, because...you know...I don't understand the English language or the situation very well, but did he even mention the fact that he didn't come up with the idea in response to this thread? No. But I assume you already knew that and chose to ignore it. That's just plain ignorant. Did you even read my post? What I said was that it was not truthful to imply that Berea had done him wrong by stealing his idea...and here's the important part so I'm making it all caps so you'll see it...WHEN IT WASN'T HIS IDEA!!!!! But of course I'm just working from a "loose" understanding of the word "truthful", so please enlighten me.

What is there to misunderstand here?! Unless you're a psychic, I doubt very much that you know what Berea was thinking. If they did see Bruce's post on this site, it's likely they would have known that he didn't claim the idea was his.

If you're going to make ignorant comments about uninformed masses, maybe you should inform yourself before making yourself look stupid. And you know what? If Berea can make them better for less than I say, more power to them. In reality, their product isn't better than Bruce's, so who really cares about their crappy blanks?! I support Bruce for making a superior product and I'd rather give one of our members business, but I'm not going to act like an idiot because of some misguided sense of honor or loyalty. But hey, if that's your bag...
 

sbell111

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... Bruce admitted he saw it somewhere else but couldn't remember where and was not able to give the person credit. There's absolutly no deceit in anything he's done or said.

The bottom line is that Berea, thinking it was solely Bruce's idea, stepped in and told him that they were going to start selling them.
Objection. Facts not in evidence.

How do we know that Berea didn't see Bruce's earlier post where he explains that it wasn't his idea? Are you really just angry because they notified him of their intentions? Why does this bother you so?

If it were me, I would have simply shifted gears and started producing my circuit blanks for cigar kits or some other. That way, Berea would siphon some of my business in Sierras, but they would not compete in the other kits I decided to make. Either way, competition is a fact of life and it keeps things business healthy.
Regardless of who's idea it was in it's very infancy, Berea stepped in and basically said "I'll be taking those sales from you, thanks." Same bull as Penn State with the bullet pen idea. It's the person with the most money and resources taking fresh ideas from the smaller, shipping work overseas, producing an inferior product, and selling to the uninformed masses. But hey, if that's your bag....
While I agree that Penn State's bullet pen is inferior to the real deal, it is clear on their website that it is not a 'real bullet' kit. Even if it was, why would we have a problem with them offering it. After all, many people make bullet pens and several of them offer the bits for sale. Why shouldn't one of our suppliers get into the game.

Given that a number of people make this type of item (at least two based on Bruce's post), what is the big deal about a company adding the product to it's offerings?

Given that a number of people make these curcuit board castings (at least two based on Bruce's post), what is the big deal about a company adding the product to it's offerings?

When did competition become an evil thing? Why shouldn't companies be allowed to add to their product lines to increase sales?
 

GouletPens

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Boy, for a second there I was getting really worried this was turning into another "jigsaw pen" fiasco. Remember that one everybody?! We sure tend to be a bunch of shoot first ask questions later kinda crowd, huh?

Morally, I think that Bruce should at least get some publicity from Berea about the design or concept, and maybe a little kickback. But hey, I'd also like to have the county assess my house at what it's actually worth, and my politicians to be honest and frugal! This seems to be another one of those unfortunate situations where the "big business" is taking advantage of the little guy (sorry Bruce).

Patents aren't USELESS, but they are just like any "law", they have to be enforced. All a patent is going to do is give you the legal backing to be able to sue and possibly get your competition to stop making your design after they've already done it. There are no patent police out there enforcing it for you. Now if Bruce even had the time, patience, and money to patent his design, he'd STILL have to take Berea to court to get them to stop from making the design. The odds are stacked against the little guy in this respect. But hey, has anyone tried to start their own business lately?! I know I get taxed twice to start and it gets added on TOP of my wife's salary before I get to see a dime. The "man" is trying to hold us all down!!! RON PAUL 2008!!! Oh, sorry, a little distracted there.:eek:
 

GouletPens

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Gee I wonder if that's why some members stop posting pics of their newest designer pen here?????????????
Bruce I know what you mean about making ends meet---heck we are trying to keep the heat on this year.
Hey, hey now Gary! Don't discourage people from posting their pen designs here! Lord knows there wouldn't be half the pen designs out there if we didn't all steal them from each other! :biggrin:
 

Texatdurango

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I see a lot of outrage about Berea making these kits and can't help but wonder, would we see the same outrage if another IAP member decided to start making the same PCB kit, offering it for sale at a lower price? Something tells me the discussion would be totally different.

In the past their have been discussions about members taking (barrowing, stealing or whichever term you choose) other members ideas and selling identical items, undercutting their business and yet I didn't see the same outrage then. Actually, comments such as "It's a free country" "A little competition is good" "They should have applied for a patent" and the like seemed to be the concensus in previous discussions.

So, where does our moral compass point when it comes to someone taking someone elses idea for profit? I think some of the compass needles are bouncing in every direction and they change from one thread to another.
 

the_benz

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Amherst, Ohio, USA.
Why all the fuss

The beauty of a free enterprise country. Why are you so negative about this and not have the same issues with all the pen kits being copied and stolen all the time. Look at the Sierra copied to the Aero and Gatsby. Or what about the Snake skin blanks, coffee bean blanks, how may folks are selling them now? Bullet pens, everyone and their brother are trying to make. With Bruces blank I will have $35 in a pen, with Berea, $20. As a business man, that translates into a much bigger margin and profit in my pocket.

Buy the stuff from guy that has the quality you are looking for and/or a price you are willing to pay.
 

wizical

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OK, if you want to do this publicly, we'll do it publicly.

First: For the record, I changed my post. "Deceitful" was a bit strong so I thought better of it.

Second: Correct me if I'm wrong, because...you know...I don't understand the English language or the situation very well, but did he even mention the fact that he didn't come up with the idea in response to this thread? No. But I assume you already knew that and chose to ignore it. That's just plain ignorant. Did you even read my post? What I said was that it was not truthful to imply that Berea had done him wrong by stealing his idea...and here's the important part so I'm making it all caps so you'll see it...WHEN IT WASN'T HIS IDEA!!!!! But of course I'm just working from a "loose" understanding of the word "truthful", so please enlighten me.

What is there to misunderstand here?! Unless you're a psychic, I doubt very much that you know what Berea was thinking. If they did see Bruce's post on this site, it's likely they would have known that he didn't claim the idea was his.

If you're going to make ignorant comments about uninformed masses, maybe you should inform yourself before making yourself look stupid. And you know what? If Berea can make them better for less than I say, more power to them. In reality, their product isn't better than Bruce's, so who really cares about their crappy blanks?! I support Bruce for making a superior product and I'd rather give one of our members business, but I'm not going to act like an idiot because of some misguided sense of honor or loyalty. But hey, if that's your bag...
I agree with you on this, he spoke way too soon before he knew what he was talking about.
 

Druid

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I've been following this thread to gauge folks reaction and have to admit, this thread worries me in more ways than one could count.

Here is why:
I am a newcomer to this organization and came here to exchange information on new creative ideas as well as learn from those who are good at what they do... and believe me... there are a lot of you folks that have and SHARE your tremendous talent here. The outcome of this thread is beginning to question whether or not we should exchange our concepts/ideas in a public forum. I'm beginning to start thinking.. geez, what happens if I like what someone is doing and improve the product, if I sell an improved product that looks the same will I run the risk of being "black-balled" or better yet, the ole' way of justice?

This forum represents the proud entrepreneur spirit that built this country. As a matter of fact, my sales have increased over 30% since I joined just by applying some of the techniques/methods folks were kind enough to share. I do this as a hobby and you folks have put the fun back into my hobby. That's a quality of life factor that cannot be measured by anyone but me & my family. My appreciation & thanks goes out to everyone here.

Now back to the subject of this thread. Bruce's game is not over, as a matter of fact, with a little bit of help and marketing, we could help him use this to his advantage as many other small business have done with the corporate giants.

If you don't like what Berea and others have and WILL do in the future, boycott them. The lifecycle of that product is driven by supply & demand. You have the power to influence demand. Or better yet, form a co-op venture with Bruce where everyone wins and in the process we are helping a good guy out.

My two cents for what its worth
 

wolftat

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This is an issue that one of our members has with a vendor that we all use. Unless we are asked to get involved with this, maybe we should wait and let Bruce work things out and then help him as much as we possibly can. I consider Bruce a friend and will be there if I am asked.
 
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Skye

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Babyblue, I'll state it as plainly as I can. If you're unable to see what I'm talking about, I'll quit wasting my breath:

Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it. From what I've seen on the internet on every pen related site I've come across, I haven't seen anyone else making these for sale. IAP is the largest and most popular penturning site on the web, bar none. Bruce admitted he didn't not create this idea, but was able to start making them and was selling them. Given that from what I've seen, there is no other vendor for them and we don't know if the originator is ever selling them or made one and quit, then Bruce isnt taking bread out of his mouth.

On the other hand, Berea comes to this site, notices Bruce has carved a niche for himself with the circuit pens and informs him they're going to start carrying them and I don't think anyone else does apparently. Did Berea track down the mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him? Probably not or they would have gotten permission from him, being he was the originator. Berea came in, saw something they liked, saw someone was already selling them, started selling them.

The major difference here is from what I can tell, Bruce isn't knowingly taking money from anyone's pocket because he doesn't know another place to find them. Berea on the other hand knows someone else is selling them and chose to produce them regardless.

If that does not rhyme with your logic, there's no point in me continuing with you because I cannot fathom why this is not perfectly clear.

Tex I hate to tell you, but that's happened a few times here. Ideas have been stolen and I know of one idea that's currently a self professed 'belonging' of someone else here who is not the first person to use that design. Some people had exactly the same emotions regarding it, others were just willing to let someone get screwed over. Not much different at all.

It's a free market crowd, I just can't stand the WalMart mentality. I think that Free Market isnt what it may have used to been. Now a day it's a huge business crushing a small business. How many people here are left with small town businesses? Any little privately owned hardware stores? How about fresh markets? No, nothing but WalMart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Some people are happy to see someone get steamrolled, some not. As far as I'm concerned, if someone creates a niche for themselves, let them have it. Is it too much to ask to let someone find something they're known for and let them be the go-to guy for that product?

What's next. Will someone figure out how to make the PRPrincess' cat blanks and we're all going to say "Hey, whoever can give me the best price!"? Ruth Niles is now having her bottle stoppers duplicated by someone in Canada that bought a stopper directly from her. Anyone going to send her an email and tell her "Hey, that's capitalism, get used to it."?
 
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wizical

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Babyblue, I'll state it as plainly as I can. If you're unable to see what I'm talking about, I'll quit wasting my breath:

Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it. From what I've seen on the internet on every pen related site I've come across, I haven't seen anyone else making these for sale. IAP is the largest and most popular penturning site on the web, bar none. Bruce admitted he didn't not create this idea, but was able to start making them and was selling them. Given that from what I've seen, there is no other vendor for them and we don't know if the originator is ever selling them or made one and quit, then Bruce isnt taking bread out of his mouth.

On the other hand, Berea comes to this site, notices Bruce has carved a niche for himself with the circuit pens and informs him they're going to start carrying them and I don't think anyone else does apparently. Did Berea track down the mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him? Probably not or they would have gotten permission from him, being he was the originator. Berea came in, saw something they liked, saw someone was already selling them, started selling them.

The major difference here is from what I can tell, Bruce isn't knowingly taking money from anyone's pocket because he doesn't know another place to find them. Berea on the other hand knows someone else is selling them and chose to produce them regardless.

If that does not rhyme with your logic, there's no point in me continuing with you because I cannot fathom why this is not perfectly clear.

Tex I hate to tell you, but that's happened a few times here. Ideas have been stolen and I know of one idea that's currently a self professed 'belonging' of someone else here who is not the first person to use that design. Some people had exactly the same emotions regarding it, others were just willing to let someone get screwed over. Not much different at all.

It's a free market crowd, I just can't stand the WalMart mentality. I think that Free Market isnt what it may have used to been. Now a day it's a huge business crushing a small business. How many people here are left with small town businesses? Any little privately owned hardware stores? How about fresh markets? No, nothing but WalMart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Some people are happy to see someone get steamrolled, some not. As far as I'm concerned, if someone creates a niche for themselves, let them have it. Is it too much to ask to let someone find something they're known for and let them be the go-to guy for that product?

What's next. Will someone figure out how to make the PRPrincess' cat blanks and we're all going to say "Hey, whoever can give me the best price!"? Ruth Niles is now having her bottle stoppers duplicated by someone in Canada that bought a stopper directly from her. Anyone going to send her an email and tell her "Hey, that's capitalism, get used to it."?
Your posts dont make any sense. What you are pretty much saying is competition is bad and we should only buy from certain people and not find a better price for what we need?

People find their niche and start making a little money, but in business, you have to adapt to what is going on around you to continue making that money. You have to come up with ways to cut costs, improve sales or market your product better if similar products come out onto the market(case in point, what is going on here and in other industries as well).

but i have noticed this point hasnt seem to sunk in all that much, which tells me that you are not very good in business and you dont like competition. everyone on here sells their pens just like you, does that mean we have to stop selling pens cause you sell them too???
 

Skye

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It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality. They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.

You have to adapt? If that's the case, why bother patenting things? Why bother trademarking things? Simple, to negate that competition. I don't see you lobbying against patent rights.

Yes, everyone here has to stop selling pens. That's exactly what I'm conveying. Also, you have to stop using the words 'and' and 'everyone' because I use them too. Since I'm such a bad salesman and my website isn't up, you mind giving me the source files for yours? I may as well duplicate your website and just put my own pics in there. Hey, you're going to just have to redo yours and make it better.
 

sbell111

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... What's next. Will someone figure out how to make the PRPrincess' cat blanks and we're all going to say "Hey, whoever can give me the best price!"?
This might not be the best example. I may very well be mistaken, but I think that she is importing these for resale. (I have seen very similar items offered for import.) As such, why would it be a problem if someone also sold them?

There was a time when I was creating some items that are used in one of my hobbies and selling them. Some of the items that I sold were completely my own design while some were merely slightly different than what was already available elsewhere. Eventually, others came into the market. Some undercut my price. I lost market share.

This forced me to tweak my offerings. Some changes made the product better allowing me to have marketing advantage. Some changes allowed me to offer for less price giving me a competitive advantage. On a couple items, however, I could not gain a competitive advantage, so I stopped offering those items. What I didn't do is boo-hoo over the fact that other people offer similar items to mine.
 

alphageek

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It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality. They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.
I'm going to throw my wooden nickel in here... I've not posted in this yet and am avoiding the whole should they/shouldn't they have debate.

That being said, I think you are probably wrong here in this part. If you look at this as direct competition, you may be right about Bruce not winning... But this isn't direct competition. Bruce has several things going for him, including but not limited to a)a more unique product with colors, etc b) a strong following c) a direct market with this site.

I havn't ordered any of his blanks yet, but I have been following them as they've been changed. If I'm not mistaken he sells all he makes and even gets backed up by requests. If thats not true, then I appologize..

Will the other blanks sell? Probably. Will Bruce be able to continue to sell? I think so. Will Bruce 'lose'? I think only Bruce can decide that. I think of this almost the same way as gold vs Ti gold slimlines... Two different prices/markets/customers, but both continue to sell. Bruce has the 'ti gold' product in this market IMO.
 

sbell111

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It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality.
Objection. Facts not in evidence.
They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.
What do you mean 'win'. I seriously doubt that Bruce ever thought that he would buy that new cabin cruiser with the procedes from his circuit board blanks. It's much more likely that he discovered that he could make some cool pen blanks and offered some to us. He would make a few bucks on them, but I doubt that he ever viewed them as the road to financial peace or expected that the market would be his (at his chosen prices) forever.
You have to adapt? If that's the case, why bother patenting things? Why bother trademarking things? Simple, to negate that competition. I don't see you lobbying against patent rights.

Yes, everyone here has to stop selling pens. That's exactly what I'm conveying. Also, you have to stop using the words 'and' and 'everyone' because I use them too. Since I'm such a bad salesman and my website isn't up, you mind giving me the source files for yours? I may as well duplicate your website and just put my own pics in there. Hey, you're going to just have to redo yours and make it better.
Ummm, Bruce didn't create the idea of casting stuff in resin to make blanks out of them, nor did he create the idea of using circuit boards in his castings. His blanks are awesome and I am certainly glad that he has been able to make a little money off his hard work and hope that he chooses to adapt so he can make more, but his circuit board blank is not patentable.
 

wizical

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It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality. They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.

You have to adapt? If that's the case, why bother patenting things? Why bother trademarking things? Simple, to negate that competition. I don't see you lobbying against patent rights.

Yes, everyone here has to stop selling pens. That's exactly what I'm conveying. Also, you have to stop using the words 'and' and 'everyone' because I use them too. Since I'm such a bad salesman and my website isn't up, you mind giving me the source files for yours? I may as well duplicate your website and just put my own pics in there. Hey, you're going to just have to redo yours and make it better.
It is amazing that you still dont get it. This is still competition for the product, no matter how you look at it. And if people want the best products, they know where to go.

look at the computer industry...they do it all the time, things are patented and trademark for a reason, so when someone breaks it, there are consequences for it

I like the look of bruce's pen blanks, But if he did not protect his idea by patent or trademark, then anyone could have taken it and used it for their gain. I dont condone stealing ideas from other people, but it happens all the time.

If you want to take my website, their is nothing i can do to stop you. It just shows that you are plagiarizing and cannot come up with something original.

if you want to continue selling your products, you have to adapt to what is going on around you, come up with new products and market them. Business is ever changing and you have to be in the know to survive.
 

babyblues

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656
Location
Portland, ME, USA.
Babyblue, I'll state it as plainly as I can. If you're unable to see what I'm talking about, I'll quit wasting my breath:

Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it. From what I've seen on the internet on every pen related site I've come across, I haven't seen anyone else making these for sale. IAP is the largest and most popular penturning site on the web, bar none. Bruce admitted he didn't not create this idea, but was able to start making them and was selling them. Given that from what I've seen, there is no other vendor for them and we don't know if the originator is ever selling them or made one and quit, then Bruce isnt taking bread out of his mouth.
Most of this isn't in dispute, so I guess you have indeed wasted your breath. What I take away from this drivel is you think that regardless of who actually comes up with the idea originally, the first person to start selling the product has dibs on the market?! PREPOSTEROUS!!!! If it's not Bruce's original idea, than it doesn't matter if he's the first one to start selling them or not. Completely irrelavant.

On the other hand, Berea comes to this site, notices Bruce has carved a niche for himself with the circuit pens and informs him they're going to start carrying them and I don't think anyone else does apparently. Did Berea track down the mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him? Probably not or they would have gotten permission from him, being he was the originator. Berea came in, saw something they liked, saw someone was already selling them, started selling them.
Once again, too much speculation here. I don't know why Berea contacted Bruce to tell him and frankly, I don't really care. Did Bruce track down this mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him that he was going to start selling based on that idea? No. So, why is Berea being crucified in part because of this? Bruce just started selling them with little to no regard for who came up with the idea in the first place. And you seem fine with that, so that shouldn't even be a problem. Berea may have seen something they liked and thought would go well with the rest of their products, but where do you get off claiming that they started selling that product because someone else already was?! That's absurd and also irrelavant.

The major difference here is from what I can tell, Bruce isn't knowingly taking money from anyone's pocket because he doesn't know another place to find them. Berea on the other hand knows someone else is selling them and chose to produce them regardless.
Irrelavant for the same reason as above. Who started selling first is of no consequence if that person didn't come up with the idea for the product.

If that does not rhyme with your logic, there's no point in me continuing with you because I cannot fathom why this is not perfectly clear.
There wasn't any point to your posts in this thread in the first place, so don't let me stop you.
 

Skye

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Messages
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Location
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Who started selling first is of no consequence if that person didn't come up with the idea for the product.
I think that's the boiled down version of your whole viewpoint, which I totally disagree with.

If Curtis made the first cactus blank, it's idea.

If Curtis decides to never sell them, I think someone else should be free to do so.

If Curtis decides to sell his idea, I think he should get cart blanche.

If someone else decides they cannot do without selling them while Curtis is selling them, then Curtis should get credit for the design or compensation.
 

THarvey

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Messages
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Location
Anniston, AL, USA
Give it a rest.

This entire thread has become idiotic.

The markets that Berea and Bruce serve has a very small overlap. From everything Bruce has said he makes all he can and sells all he makes available. He also said in his post here that he could not mass produce like Berea and AS would want. If there is a discussion to be had it is not IAP's business to mediate it.

Now, all I see of the remainder of the dribble in this thread is a group of IAP members, who have no stake in the market, taking cheap (even personal) shots at each other. That serves no purpose, except to create hard feelings between members of this great community.

I think we all need to step back to let this issue and our tempers cool a bit.
 

sbell111

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Messages
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Location
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If Curtis made the first cactus blank, it's idea.

If Curtis decides to never sell them, I think someone else should be free to do so.
Let's take your theory one more step out:

Curtis didn't sell any of his, and Amos figures out how to make them and starts selling them. You state that you have no problem with this.

What if Bubba wants to start selling them after Amos has been selling them for a bit? Is he OK to sell them, or must Amos be the solo seller, even though Amos didn't initiate the idea?
 

babyblues

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Messages
656
Location
Portland, ME, USA.
I think that's the boiled down version of your whole viewpoint, which I totally disagree with.

If Curtis made the first cactus blank, it's idea.

If Curtis decides to never sell them, I think someone else should be free to do so.

If Curtis decides to sell his idea, I think he should get cart blanche.

If someone else decides they cannot do without selling them while Curtis is selling them, then Curtis should get credit for the design or compensation.
Good grief.

If Curtis made the first cactus blank but didn't sell them and Skye decided he was going to sell them, Skye has no basis for complaint if someone else starts selling them too.

Thus far, I haven't seen you come to the realization that the seller and the originator of the circuit board cast in resin idea ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. If you can't or won't acknowledge that then...well...you're welcome to your opinion. Good luck with that.
 
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maxwell_smart007

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Ok, people, let's restrain ourselves here.

Facts: Berea is now making circuit board pens. You can choose to buy from them or not. Bruce also makes circuit board pens. It's also your choice as to whether you want to buy from him or not. Someone apparently made them before Bruce. They don't sell them here. End of facts.

Excessive deliberation about a topic we know little about is pointless at best, and harmful at the worst. At the very least, let's stop criticizing each others' arguing style...

Remember, personal attacks on character are not tolerated as per the forum rules.
 

bruce119

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Location
Franklin, NC, USA.
Did Bruce track down this mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him that he was going to start selling based on that idea? No. So, why is Berea being crucified in part because of this? Bruce just started selling them with little to no regard for who came up with the idea in the first place.
"No" NOT TRUE please don't put words in my mouth.

I am overwhelmed with all the support. Lets try and keep the flames down I don't want anyone taking this into the street and beating on each other.

I will continue to do what I have been doing. Making these and having fun doing it.

Thanks everyone again
Bruce
 

babyblues

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Messages
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Location
Portland, ME, USA.
"No" NOT TRUE please don't put words in my mouth.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I never credited you with saying anything. I was merely making a point.

Do you really think it's right to claim that you are the "birth place of the printed circuit board computer blanks" considering it wasn't your idea? I'm just asking the question because I'm interested to know your take on this. I have no problem with you selling your blanks, but I won't be buying any if you claim to be the first to make them even after admitting that you weren't. It might seem like splitting hairs, but I really don't like dishonesty. That might be neither here nor there for you, and that's fine, but I stand by my statement.

However, I will try to show respect for you as a person and discontinue arguing my point.
 
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thewishman

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Location
Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA.
I enjoy making Bruce's blanks into pens. The "real, genuine" mother and other boards makes those blanks unique and interesting. Nothing simulating this look will be the same as the "real" thing.

The other blanks from Berea are not the same, though they do have a similar look. They will appeal to one group of people, Bruce's blanks will appeal to another.
 

wizical

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Jun 14, 2007
Messages
416
Location
Los Angeles, ca, USA.
I enjoy making Bruce's blanks into pens. The "real, genuine" mother and other boards makes those blanks unique and interesting. Nothing simulating this look will be the same as the "real" thing.

The other blanks from Berea are not the same, though they do have a similar look. They will appeal to one group of people, Bruce's blanks will appeal to another.
amen
 
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Skye

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Thus far, I haven't seen you come to the realization that the seller and the originator of the circuit board cast in resin idea ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. If you can't or won't acknowledge that then...well...you're welcome to your opinion.
I've said time and time again that Bruce DID NOT invent the thing. Did you even read my post?

Babyblue,
Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it.
Until you start reading my posts, this is even more pointless than it is, which is pretty pointless.... to a point.
 
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