Beginner? Intermediate? Advanced?

[ed4copies]

I have heard both Mike and Jeff say, "If you bring me a problem, at least give me one solution". So, take that solution and "poll it" with the existing guidelines. Knowing the 'complainers" will vote for their new idea---even at that, how does the membership feel about the proposed "new idea".

This will also be likely to prove there is NO ONE WAY that will achieve 100% support. So, accept the policy that will lead to including the greatest number of participants and expect those who stay out to find SOME reason why they KNEW they could not win. (Other than, they don't have the skill---god forbid we admit that!!)

 

[Bob Wemm]

I thought the idea of this thread was to find a way to make the contests "FAIRER".

Firstly I am not complaining about the way my entry went, **** happens.

Secondly my idea was a suggestion to be worked on in the process of this discussion.

Thirdly, as long as your butt points to the ground you will NEVER please everyone.

In consideration of the beginners level my thoughts were that if the same PEN KIT had to be used then that makes every entry on a level playing field. In the case of a cooking contest where two beginners enter and one makes a pie and the other prepares a steak and salad, the pie maker doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

Consider the Beginner entries this year, slimlines and other FANCY kits, the judges would have taken into consideration fit and finish etc, but the open poll would have been based 90% on the WOW factor. So that is not FAIR.

I've had my say so now it's up to you experts.

Bob.

 

[ed4copies]

Hey Bob!

None of us is an expert on "throwing a bash"!! We change a few rules every year and see what sticks. Most important, we don't take offense when our ideas differ---the other guys are frequently wrong,:tongue::tongue::tongue: but I don't mind, at all!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[GoodTurns]

.... In the case of a cooking contest where two beginners enter and one makes a pie and the other prepares a steak and salad, the pie maker doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

Personally, I like pie!

Can't claim to be an expert, or to have the right answer. Personally, I think any ranking or rating system can be "worked" by the entrants if that is their intent and someone will have an issue with any system. I have seen that if you look for offence or discrimination, you will find it.

I agree that too many rules make things much clearer and much less fun...keep it simple and let 'em rant!

 

[mbroberg]

I thought the idea of this thread was to find a way to make the contests "FAIRER".

Firstly I am not complaining about the way my entry went, **** happens.

Secondly my idea was a suggestion to be worked on in the process of this discussion.

Thirdly, as long as your butt points to the ground you will NEVER please everyone.

In consideration of the beginners level my thoughts were that if the same PEN KIT had to be used then that makes every entry on a level playing field. In the case of a cooking contest where two beginners enter and one makes a pie and the other prepares a steak and salad, the pie maker doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

Consider the Beginner entries this year, slimlines and other FANCY kits, the judges would have taken into consideration fit and finish etc, but the open poll would have been based 90% on the WOW factor. So that is not FAIR.

I've had my say so now it's up to you experts.

Bob.

I'm glad you are jumping in Bob. If there was one best way to do something we wouldn't have the opportunity to bicker and snipe at each other.:tongue: Don't hesitate to speak up. You are not going to offend any of the people in here, I guarantee it.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I do think for the beginner contest that how long and using the same type of kit is a good idea. A triton with tru stone blank is going to have more wow factor than a slimline with curly maple.
How about for the modified contests we have a category for people who haven't done a modified pen yet. That way those intermediate people would feel they have a shot because they aren't competing against the experienced people.

 

[mredburn]

For the beginners it would not be hard to set the guidlines for example to
A- you have not yet made 25 pens ever
B you have made less than 50 and have been turning less than 6 months or less.

Do we need to define the intermediate.
you have made at least 25 pens and have been turning more than 6 months
Have not placed in the top 5 of an intermediate or advanced competition

(Edit in) plus the no cnc, laser etc rule

 

[mredburn]

One of the discussions I would like to have is concerning the New Advanced Catagory.
This year I allowed just about everything possible to try and encourage participation. I would like Your thoughts on that criteria.
I did allow kit blanks, and kit pens, and blanks made by other than the entrant for that reason. We had at least one kit blank. The theory was more people would enter just to enter if they could use a(for example) JohnU feather blank. The criteria for judging would pretty much ensure they would not make the finals. But they could participate. I have entertained the thought that it may behoove us to not allow cnc.laser work etc. in ANY of the contests other than the Free Style. That way we channel those pens into the Freestyle and leave the others to the hand work pens. Interestingly Turbowagons silver work was hand done not cnc'd so it would be allowed under those guide lines. Even though it could have been in the free style as well.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I agree that allowing everything in the advanced is a good idea. Also agree with limiting the cool tools to the advanced contest. Then people know that in that contest you have to go big. I would say that this is a good example of the contest setting stabdard and not skills of the members.

 

[Bob Wemm]

I think that the basic thing about IAP is pen turning, that is Turning the pen on a lathe of some description. I also think that the use of "Outside" intervention such as CNC's etc should br restricted to only the Free Style contest. Because that is what it is, using some other means to create the piece.
There was talk earlier about 'Novice'. How about splitting the categories to incorporate a 'novice' section???????????????????, if in fact they need to be split. Just might make people feel a little more comfortable about entering.
There appears to be some "Terror" about competeing against the big guys, and we need to find a way to overcome this.
IMHO.
Bob.

 

[hunter-27]

I think the break down of the pen contests this year was a great start. With some adjustment(I have some things in mind) I think we will accomplish a great deal without trying to reinvent the whole dang wheel.