Art or Crafts

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Penturning is

  • Total voters
    122
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R

ragz

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So this has been bugging me for a couple of days...

My youngest daughter is an honors art student in high school and asked for some help on some homework. The projest is called "ordinary to extraordinary". She was looking for ideas that she had to take for approval for the project.

Being the turner that I am, I think why take an ordinary Bic or similar pen and turn it into a pen like we make but either segmented or maybe polymer clay or something then just a wood body.

She goes back with the idea and another one that would involve a stryofoam head, paint, makeup and feathers. Needless to say the teacher says the pen is crafty and not art and the mannequin is art.

I know I'm biased but what say you is penturning....
1 A craft
2 A craft that can reach artistic quality
3 An art of itself
4 Unsure

I think I'm going to produce a custom high end for her to take to school to show(maybe give) to the teacher.
 
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art is the practice of taking a vision and turning it into something real, such as a painting

a craft is the practice of making something, not generally taking the looks of it into account

both can apply to some pens, other times either can apply depending on the creator, thus option 2
 
a craft is the practice of making something, not generally taking the looks of it into account
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How can you make anything whether it be turning a pen, sculpting or doing a painting without taking the looks of it into account?

I generally agree with you except on that point
 
Taking a piece of wood, gluing, trimming, turning and assembling into a pen is not an art. that is a craft. however, when you suddenly decide that the pen is not just a turned piece of wood but, from the mind of the pen maker it is modified to relate to some instance, to specifically evoke certain emotions in someone, commemorating a special occasion or just become the most beautiful ink pen ever produced it becomes an art.
its no different that a very famous statue, Lady Liberty, in New York harbor. The artist conceived and designed the statue. However, it took a craftsman, or in that case many craftsmen, to build the artists conception.
the pen turner does both. There is no way that pen turning does not rise to art. And, having many years in the machining field will admit that a simple, straight forward slim line pen is basically a craft, and even my first pen was very easy for me to make, but if you look at the stuff on these forums ...!

Of course it is an art. Only a fool would dispute that at the levels achieved by some here and other places.
 
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The way I look at it if you ask a pure craftsman to make a box, it will be square, have perfect joints, and painted with whatever color paint he had around. It would last forever, be very useful, but it will be in a closet somewhere so you do not have to see it every day.

A pure artist would give you a box of some interesting shape, would have curves and appendages all over, be made out of many different materials. It will probably fall apart if you actually use it so you set it on a shelf somewhere and dust it occasionally.

IMO, you want a blending between the two to get something solid and dependable but also beautiful and a pleasure to see and use.
 
I agree. A craft at that can reach art. Craftsmanship is about repetitive motions and perfection. You're turning a pen between between bushings and trying to make it so that the feel is perfect and so that the fit is perfect. That is craftsmanship.
The artist works outside of those boundaries, trying to find new and different things to do. The very first kitless pen you make is art -- conceived in your mind and brought out by turning outside of any normal boundary. By the time you get around to your third kitless (if you're trying to make it exactly like you first) it becomes a craft-- trying to repeat and perfect something.

One more thing: Art is in the mistakes. In art you make mistakes, own them, use them, and shape them to your work.
Craftsmanship (Im really beating a dead horse.Cant believe you read all this) is about perfection.
 
penTURNING is a (usually) craft, penMAKING is (usually) art! search...pretty sure we had a very similar thread 6-8 months ago.

when I select, cut, drill, turn and finish...it's craft. when I select, paint, cut, glue, insert, apply, dye, cast, combine THEN cut, drill, turn and finish...it is more....maybe art!
 
The question is worded: What do you think of penturning?

I got seriously flamed last time I tried to answer that question but I'm in agreement with most of the votes above. Penturning is a Craft!
The design and making of blanks, on the other hand is an artform.
 
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Craft. Can it rise to the level of art, depends on the emotional response of the patron. The definition of art is way too vague.
 
Several years ago, the Canadian National Art Gallary paid several million of our tax dollars for a piece of abstract so-called art called "Voice of Fire".

100121_voiceoffire.jpg


(photolink to a McLean's article on the painting)

It's about the size of a sheet of plywood, and is comprised of three vertical stripes -- red and blue. A middle school student could create a perfect forgery in an afternoon.

The artist's genius was not in the painting, but in convincing the Canadian government that it is art. He must still struggle on a daily basis, to keep the grin off his face...

The same institute a few years ago gave a sizeable cash grant to another Canadian artist -- a guy banned from most art museums, because a part of his art requires him to spray big red X's on other people's art and sticking vials up his own blood up his own backside. (I swear I'm not making this up...!) Yet, because he convinced some art patron that his work is important, he got a nice grant.

You cannot win in a "what is art" whizzing contest... A thing is art if the person who created it, says it is.
 
OK let's get realistic here penturning,penmaking,penmakingship,ITS A HOBBY IS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ART or for that matter it has nothing to do with crafts.Its a hobby
 
Papo said:
OK let's get realistic here penturning,penmaking,penmakingship,ITS A HOBBY IS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ART or for that matter it has nothing to do with crafts.Its a hobby
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Just because it is a hobby doesn't mean it can't also be a craft or art. Also, for many people on here it is more than a hobby, it is a business that provides income. For a very, very small group it is a full time business (yes, selling pens, not all the other stuff like wood etc.).
 
Craft...

Personally I think it is a craft - and there's nothing wrong with that.

While some here may doubt this craftsmen probably enjoy, on average, a higher station and more respected position than artists.

Before we will call someone a craftsman, he/she must prove worthy of the name. Anyone can be called an artist, "art" does not have to be good, and an artist does not have to produce good art to be an artist.

A craftsman on the other hand must produce good work, it does not have to be original but it has to be good. If it's not good, the producer is not a craftsman.
 
Papo said:
OK let's get realistic here penturning,penmaking,penmakingship,ITS A HOBBY IS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ART or for that matter it has nothing to do with crafts.Its a hobby
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Penturners are most definitely Craftsman and many here are also Artists!

The computer circuit board pens made by Bruce way back when, Barry Gross' watch parts pen, Toni's polymer clay work, ... the list could go on and on .... Artists, each in their own way! No doubt in my mind! :smile:
 
Craftsmen work with their mind they use their intelligence as inspiration. Artist use feelings for inspiration they do not necessarily use intelligence. No one will ask you what feelings the subtle use of color in a pen made you feel. Some people can draw from both pools blurring the lines. Pen making is not a hobby for everybody here. I think pen making is a craft.
 
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Not necessarily

Lenny said:
Papo said:
OK let's get realistic here penturning,penmaking,penmakingship,ITS A HOBBY IS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ART or for that matter it has nothing to do with crafts.Its a hobby
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Penturners are most definitely Craftsman and many here are also Artists!

The computer circuit board pens made by Bruce way back when, Barry Gross' watch parts pen, Toni's polymer clay work, ... the list could go on and on .... Artists, each in their own way! No doubt in my mind! :smile:
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Personally I would call all of your examples craftsmanship rather than art.

Finding a new use for an old item is definately innovation, but innovation is not really art.

Printed circuit boards and pen barrels both were existing items, merging them was an innovation requiring thinking and perhaps an inventive approach but that does not make it art...doing it well does make it craftsmanship.
 
Actually I have the best answer, if someone wants to buy a pen from a craftsman, then I am one; if someone else wants to buy the pen because of the art in it, then I am an artist!!!!
 
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