Applying Pens Plus

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Ed Weingarden

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I'm new to pen turning and as such, finishing pens. Based upon some of my readings on the forum, I've tried Pens Plus friction polish recently. I apply and buff with the lathe running at 2800 - 3000 rpm, with a blue shop paper towel. I'm not able to achieve a smooth surface; there are very fine radial lines of dried finish on the surface. Any suggestions as to how to not get those lines. Different cloth? Different lathe speed? Building up too much heat, or not enough? Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.
 
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egnald

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The manufacturer / inventor,Mike Meredith, from Doctors Woodshop has a video about applying the finish on YouTube. Although there are variations that are used by other turners on IAP, I pretty much follow the instructions presented on the video. Link: Finishing A Pen With PENS PLUS.

Pens Plus is essentially a formulation of Walnut Oil, No-Waxed Shellac, and a synthetic microaggregated microcrystaline wax (Cosmolloid 80H). It is applied using a French Polish (friction polish) type of method, however, it is not designed to be a high build product. (I think because of the wax as most high build variants contain only oil, de-waxed shellac, and a solvent like denatured alcohol).

Are you sure the lines are dried finish or might they simply be sanding scratches that are exaggerated by the finish? Can you post some close-up pictures? That might help others better identify the situation and give recommendations.

Regards,
Dave

PS I make my own high build friction polish using Denatured Alcohol, Boiled Linseed Oil, and Zinsser SealCoat (Wax-Free Shellac). The recipe is attributed to O.B. Lacoste from Lafayette, Louisiana as promoted by Cap'n Eddie Castelin in several of his videos.
 
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Ed Weingarden

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@egnald: Thanks for the feedback and the video link. I'll take a look at that this evening.

My sanding technique is to sand with the lathe spinning, followed by longitudinal sanding (lathe off) for each grit. The final sanding is done longitudinally. Thus, I didn't think it was scratch marks. When I apply the Pens Plus, I can see the lines forming as I'm moving the paper towel back and forth. So my thinking is that the shellac is drying as I'm polishing, and the paper towel is causing the lines. Below are a couple of photos; not sure if you can see what I'm referring to.
 

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wouldentu2?

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I zoomed in on the pen and I've seen those marks once in a while I not sure why but, it's either from the tool and not sanded out enough or it's the character of the wood. Maybe someone else can comment on that
 

leehljp

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That is Paddock. Those radial lines are the cells of paddock wood, which has large enough cells to be visible to the naked eye. My description might not be technically correct, but in the vernacular, that is a part of the wood grain that you are seeing. Quite common to see those in paddauck-or padauck-or paddock?

That is one aspect that I really like about paddock, the fact that you can see the granular cells. My first complete and well finished pen was paddauk some 17 years ago and I was intrigued to see those cells.

Click on the picture below taken in March 2005, you can see the lines in it too, even though that was not a good photograph.

Your finish is just fine, enjoy it! 🙂
 

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egnald

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Now that I see what you are looking at, I understand much better. I too have experienced those kind of rings, and I think it was only with certain species of hardwoods. (I am pretty sure one of them was Padauk, and the other could be Cocobolo as I turn a lot of it as well). The lines are much too evenly spaced to be tool marks and considering I usually sand to at least 800 grit, it would surprise me if they would be tool marks.

I do know that hardwoods in sharp contrast to softwoods have a broad array of complexity made up of vessels, or pores, that can be found in various arrangements, Ring, Diffuse, and Semi-Ring and can be grouped in clusters, chains, and multiple bands. Vessels are the largest type of cells in hardwoods and unlike other hardwood cell types, they can be seen individually even without magnification. (Nearly all Softwoods have no vessels and instead rely on tracheids sap conduction).

In addition to pores wood contains rays that run perpendicular to the rest of the wood fibers. These are the cells that carry nutrients between the cambium, sapwood, and heartwood. From the endgrain rays look like straight, radial lines spaced evenly across the wood. Like pores, rays have different sizes and some species even have multiple but distinct sizes of rays.

I don't know if I am right or not, but I have always attributed the marks like those to storied rays which I have seen called ripple marks.

Regards,
Dave
 

jrista

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I'm new to pen turning and as such, finishing pens. Based upon some of my readings on the forum, I've tried Pens Plus friction polish recently. I apply and buff with the lathe running at 2800 - 3000 rpm, with a blue shop paper towel. I'm not able to achieve a smooth surface; there are very fine radial lines of dried finish on the surface. Any suggestions as to how to not get those lines. Different cloth? Different lathe speed? Building up too much heat, or not enough? Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.

I've written a lot about applying pens plus. I think the latest technique I follow, which has been very successful, is here:


FWIW, I stopped using blue paper towel to apply PP. For whatever reason, it seems to streak more, leave fibers behind, etc. I've been using white paper towels when I can. I try to find ones that are as lint free as possible. I've had pretty good luck with Viva brand, but I picked up a package at...Home Depot I think, maybe Lowes, that seemed to be a bit better. Anyway, I avoid the blue paper towels with Pens Plus.
 

MedWoodWorx

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I sand with drs walnut oil until 3000 and then use pensplus. It may be an overkill but it works very nice when working with olivewood and other hardwoods. I believe that one must sand very carefully to the highest possible grit before applying pp since it cannot build up like ca or cover scratches; its a wax/oil finish for adequately polished hardwoods. I also try to rinse my tubes with fresh walnut oil between grits. I found that pp doesn't work well with open pored wood like oak. Just my opinion, cheers
 
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leehljp

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I'll write it again, Those rings are the characteristics of that wood, NOT the finish technique or problem. The fact that you can see the rings means that you did a very good job in fine sanding and applying the finish.

Padauk . . . My spelling of Padauk, Paddauk, Paddock etc comes from my beginnings in pen turning. I was living in Japan and they primarily used the British spelling system, and there were variations on the spelling of that wood in different countries in the S. Pacific region. Even Google offered me different spellings back then. "Paddock" is what my spell checker says but "Padauk" is what Google brings up now.
 
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Painfullyslow

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The experts here already covered just about everything. The only thing that I will add as a new pen turner myself is that for me there have been times when there were radial scratches left even after sanding axially so now my process is radial sanding > axial sanding > wipe with rubbing alcohol and inspect. If all is good then on to the next grit. That may be overkill for the more experienced folks who seem to instinctively know when they have removed all of the radial scratches but for me, I still find that I need that intermediate step until I find my natural sanding rhythm.

I'll write it again, Those rings are the characteristics of that wood, NOT the finish technique or problem. The fact that you can see the rings means that you did a very good job in fine sanding and applying the finish.

Padauk . . . My spelling of Padauk, Paddauk, Paddock etc comes from my beginnings in pen turning. I was living in Japan and they primarily used the British spelling system, and there were variations on the spelling of that wood in different countries in the S. Pacific region. Even Google offered me different spellings back then. "Paddock" is what my spell checker says but "Padauk" is what Google brings up now.

I spent a large part of my lifetime racing motorcycles and our pit areas are located in the 'paddock' so for me, that is all I think of when I see that spelling =)
 
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Sometimes those rings are caused by sanding. I sand while the late is running, sometimes wet sand depending upon the wood or time I want to spend. In between each grit, stop the lathe and sand horizontally with the same grit of paper. What that does is break down those sanding rings around the blank. Each higher grit will not remove sanding rings from the previous grit(s) assuming that is part of the problem. From your photos that looks like that may be what is causing those rings but it also could be the wood species. Hard to say without seeing the blank in person.

As far as Pen Plus, LOVE it. I use it almost exclusively for wood pens, even for hybrids if it is more wood than resin. Pens Plus isn't a nigh build friction polish so you won't be putting on tons of coats like CA as mentioned above. Typically I will do 3-4 coats of Pens Plus on a blank and it provides amazing durability and natural finished look. I still use one of the first pens I finished this way at work almost daily and it barely shows 2-3 years of use.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. Looks like the first and easiest thing to try is a different paper towel.

Honestly, I use shirt cutoffs for application. The bags of shirt cutoffs in the paint supply section at Lowe's are great, soft white t-shirt material. Just fold them up so you don't have loose or flapping material to get caught in the lathe.

Don't get the shirt cutoffs from the pain section in Home Depot for finsih application, it is a very coarse and rought fabric.
 

MedWoodWorx

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Thanks for all the feedback. Looks like the first and easiest thing to try is a different paper towel.
keep hank's advice in mind though, try a few different wood species and compare the results. i often sand and treat a (new)piece of wood (mainly cutoffs) just to see how it responds to a given finish. cheers
 

jrista

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@egnald: Thanks for the feedback and the video link. I'll take a look at that this evening.

My sanding technique is to sand with the lathe spinning, followed by longitudinal sanding (lathe off) for each grit. The final sanding is done longitudinally. Thus, I didn't think it was scratch marks. When I apply the Pens Plus, I can see the lines forming as I'm moving the paper towel back and forth. So my thinking is that the shellac is drying as I'm polishing, and the paper towel is causing the lines. Below are a couple of photos; not sure if you can see what I'm referring to.
That is Paddock. Those radial lines are the cells of paddock wood, which has large enough cells to be visible to the naked eye. My description might not be technically correct, but in the vernacular, that is a part of the wood grain that you are seeing. Quite common to see those in paddauck-or padauck-or paddock?

That is one aspect that I really like about paddock, the fact that you can see the granular cells. My first complete and well finished pen was paddauk some 17 years ago and I was intrigued to see those cells.

Click on the picture below taken in March 2005, you can see the lines in it too, even though that was not a good photograph.

Your finish is just fine, enjoy it! 🙂
So, I wanted to respond to this. While Hank is correct, that some of the striations in the wood are a NATURAL characteristic...I see something else in this particular photo as well:

20220509_183302-jpg.334822



I see the striations in teh wood, the radial lines....but, I ALSO see streaking in the finish. Look at teh brightest parts of the highlight, above and below it, a bit to the left of center. You can see the streaks in the finish there. Those streaks do not line up with the natural lines in the wood. The similar streaks at the other end of the other highlight also do not line up with the lines in the wood.

So I think there are two things going on here. Yes, there IS a natural striation or grain line in the paduke wood. I've seen it myself, and I wondered about it myself the first few times, until I realized its a natural thing.

That said, personally, I can also see NON-natural streaks that appear to be in the finish itself.


Those streaks, when its with Pens Plus, are often the result of lingering too long while friction-polishing the finish in. If you spend too much time, and the finish solidifies, the point at which the paper towel touches the finish is often hot enough to melt the finish again. But only momentarily. That can cause streaking just like what you see here.

Friction polishing is a bit of an art. You need to spend the right amount of time on it. Not too little, or with too little heat, that you don't cure the finish properly...but also not too long that you start melting the cured finish once its done. With Pens Plus, "build up" is also a cause of streaking problems. This is not a finish you want to build up. I read a LOT of people's techniques with Pens Plus when I first started using it...I guess about 9 months or so ago now. Most of the techniques required "layer" after "layer" to be build up over and over until you achieved a consistent "response" to the finishing process.

I ended up developing my own process, and in the end I realized that Pens Plus is NOT a finish you want to build up! If you do things just right, you could technically get away with a single coat, but in practice, usually, you apply one fairly liberal coat with some initial rub-in with the lathe off first, then turn the lathe on and friction polish it to a shine. Once you let that sit for a bit and settle in, if, IF, you see dry or dull spots, then you might need to apply a VERY, VERY THIN additional layer or two, just until you fully coat every part of the blank with that nice, super shiny, super crystal clear finish. I usually don't apply more than 2-3 coats these days, maybe 4 on a wood that is more porous (however, if you use enough initial coats of pure walnut oil first, and fill in the grain and pores with oil, and give those coats of oil a good friction polishing before you apply the Pens Plus, then you should have minimal drinking of the PP itself once applied.)

Too many coats, and the wax builds up too much (well, really, wax and shellac), and streaking becomes pretty much inevitable. I used to use 8-10 coats, when I first started, based on other people's techniques. It was pretty hard to keep that thick finish looking clear and shiny, and it picked up streaks easily. IT was also softer...and was not as durable as the finishes I get now with just a few coats. Pens Plus is a friction polish, basically a walnut oil version of OB Shine Juice (which is BLO, DNA, and shellac), but with the Cosmolloid 80H (i.e. Renaissance Wax!!) synthetic microcrystalline wax in it. The was is a hardening wax that provides the outer coating, which, thanks to being a regularized microcrystalline structure, gives you the ultra clear, super shiny finish. The shellac coats the wood with a film. The oil penetrates the wood to seal it. The DNA acts as a thinner and a volatile to evaporate and help it all dry and cure, especially under heat.

You want the finish to be THIN, not thick and built up, and you want it to cure properly. So, seal the wood with walnut oil first, then start with a liberal coat of PP, then after that, use just the tiniest amount (like, lentil sized dot) to apply any additional coats to clean up the finish and make it glossy shiny all around, no dull or dry spots.
 

leehljp

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Radial lines on Padauk are one thing, streaks-scratches-grooves are another. If the latter is what he is talking about, that is a different situation and basically a deeper build up of finish is needed plus a finer sanding grit 800 - 1000 grit or 12000 mm. Low end grits are what cause those and it is better to eliminate the use of low end grits on pens. Pens are not in the same category as flat wood and large bowls, as there is not enough buffer zone of wood to recover from as on boards and blocks.
 
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Ed Weingarden

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@jrista - you have identified what I am talking about. Based upon how I've been applying the PP, I may be, as you say, "lingering too long while friction-polishing the finish in".

I like @MedWoodWorx idea of trying the PP on cutoffs, prior to applying on the completed piece.
 

leehljp

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@jrista - you have identified what I am talking about. Based upon how I've been applying the PP, I may be, as you say, "lingering too long while friction-polishing the finish in".

I like @MedWoodWorx idea of trying the PP on cutoffs, prior to applying on the completed piece.
I'm glad that the correct problem got identified and a fix is now possible. As someone said to me once in East Asia - The English language can be so difficult! Uh-huh!
 
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jrista

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Radial lines on Padauk are one thing, streaks-scratches-grooves are another. If the latter is what he is talking about, that is a different situation and basically a deeper build up of finish is needed plus a finer sanding grit 800 - 1000 grit or 12000 mm. Low end grits are what cause those and it is better to eliminate the use of low end grits on pens. Pens are not in the same category as flat wood and large bowls, as there is not enough buffer zone of wood to recover from as on boards and blocks.
This is a really important factor with Pens Plus. I sand up to 3000 grit standard, or 1 micron Zona Paper. I used to sand only to 800 or so, and while that may be enough with CA (which adds layers of acrylic on top of the wood, which can hide some amount of scratches I think), with Pens Plus you really can't build it up (if you do, you just end up with a soft non-durable finish), so getting the wood itself as smooth as possible is key.

I guess if you are very skilled, you could just use the tool to get it that smooth. I myself am not quite that skilled, so I sand. I also try to make sure I sand both directions, alternating grits, and make sure that whatever I end up on at the end, my final pass of sanding is longitudinal along the blank, which gets rid of any remaining radial streaks in teh wood itself.

You still need to make sure you don't leave streaks in the finish, as that can still happen even with a pristine wood surface, but sanding and getting that pristine wood finish is important. If you can't get the oil coats to penetrate on their own, wet sanding the last few grits with the walnut oil will make sure you saturate the wood with the oil before applying Pens Plus.
 
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