An observation

[monophoto]

I went to Totally Turning in Saratoga Springs this past weekend. As always,s the demonstrations were fabulous, and the gallery was very inspiring.

But I noticed that the number of vendors who participate has continued to shrink - some traditional vendors opted to share a booth to reduce their show costs, while others simply weren't there. I can understand that a vendor who finds that his booth doesn't generate much business might choose to not return, but it's really disappointing to pay the entry fee only to find that vendors whose booths were beehives of activity in previous years were not represented.

It's not surprising - vendors have to take a pretty steely-eyed approach to shows. There is a charge for the space which seems to increase every year, there is the cost of travel to the show, and the costs of lodging and food for the people who are there. For participation in a show, the sales volume at the show must be enough to offset those costs while leaving an acceptable margin for the business. And as businesses shift from 'brick and mortar' to low-cost on-line arrangements, it inevitably becomes more difficult to justify participation in a show.

And it's not just the woodworking shows. A month ago, I went to a Home and Garden show at the same venue, and was surprised to see that the number of empty booth spaces had increased significantly since the same show last year.

This may be a problem for which there is no solution.

 

[Woodchipper]

Louie, most interesting comments about the show. Costs go up to compensate for the loss of revenue resulting from fewer participants. Couple of examples- I have two friends who have show dogs. The cost of travel, room, meals, handler, etc. can run into thousands, depending on where the dog show is held. One has cut back on attending shows. He shows at some in the Southeast plus a couple of the big shows like the Westminster. Along the same line, I pretty much wrote off craft shows/festivals as a 10x10 booth cost can range from $100 to over $300. I would have to sell a lot of pens just to break even. Like the old joke- Maybe I need a bigger truck?

 

[leehljp]

I am noticing a paradigm shift in the way things are done in the USA. Less crowds everywhere except at Walmart. Less people knowing what to do or pursuing real "thinking" hobbies.

The Paradigm shift is in the direction against deductive reasoning skills that come through observation of a problem. Woodworking is just that - deductive reasoning skills to bring about a specific result from a puzzle of wood boards. I work with rural Bi-Vocational pastors and some of them make far more than some full time pastors because they are woodworkers, welders, machinists - blue collar workers. Some of them make nearly 6 figure salaries from their day work.

But that is an almost lost art, and the old timers that attended things like you mentioned on a large scale are dying off. Woodworking (from flat work to turning to finishing) is becoming a specialized skill work, not the general-anyone-can-do-it of YesterYear.

 

[MRDucks2]

In 2010 I moved from Southern Indiana rural country to what I refer to as one If the Spring, Texas "Compaq" communities. One of the many subdivisions built when Compaq Computer headquartered North of Houston in Spring.

These are areas of wonderfully built 3000+ soft homes, each a custom built build throughout each subdivision. Compaq being long gone and the Houston area being Houston, we moved into a very nice home in a wonderful subdivision.

Our neighbors were a Geologist for an oil exploration company, a high level Operations Manager for Exxon, a senior Pilot for United, a retired Executive for a railroad, etc. All were great folks.

I did begin to get tickled though. As a farm-boy I do a lot of stuff myself. It was not uncommon for a neighbor or 3 to walk from their various spots in the cul-de-sac to watch me work and make surprise my comments on my wonderful skills. (All of which were quite basic)

These were all folks from their 40s to their 70s who never even considered fixing their own plumbing, electrical, doors, windows, gates, screens, landscaping, auto maintenance, etc.

It was cheaper for me to hire someone to mow the small lawn, pay to have my oil changed or help to remove trees. But we came home one day to a AAA auto service van jump starting a car in the neighbors driveway. They expressed a little frustration at make the ones leaving late because of a 40 minute wait on AAA.

I suggested they either call me to give them a jump or walk over to my garage and get my charger/booster to start a vehicle if I wasn't home. They were amazed at the idea.

I miss those folks and enjoyed being in the same neighborhood. My point, though, is that this drawdown of people doing what many of us would consider even basic skills has been going on for a while.

As such, the boomers children who grew up this way, a much smaller generation, have also not pursued any "skills" or interest, as Hank points out, in deductive reasoning. Because the boomers are retiring or dying off and the coming generations are smaller, it is now becoming more noticeable.

I have worked in heavy industrial maintenance and service every since getting out of the Marine Corps. 20 years we began to warn of a looming crisis due to the lack of skilled maintenance folks in the coming generations. It was a crisis that would hit in 15 years. That was 5 years ago and it has landed.

We, as a nation, would do ourselves well to begin promoting and teach skills based on deductive reasoning again. Instead, we teach everyone to just get along with each other (how's that working out), that you must have a college education to go to work in a "real" job and if your first "real" job doesn't pay you $80,000 a year it's because someone is taking advantage of you.

It has been a long road to get where we are.

OK. I feel better now. I'm done. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I see your point Mike. The younger generations just not interested in learning how to fix things themselves. My son, now 40yrs old, was the same way. He wanted me to fix everything and he helped or paid enough attention so I wouldn't yell at him. I told him to get a good degree so he could make plenty of money because those that can and will do the things he doesn't want to mess with will want their share of money to do it for him. It didn't take him long to figure out he needed to learn the simple things to help save for the larger ones he had to pay someone else.

 

[EBorraga]

Just a thought. There was a large pen turning meetup in Georgia. I think most of the big pen vendors were there.

 

[monophoto]

It would be too easy to dismiss a lack of interest as purely a generational thing - and my grandparents complained about 'the younger generation' 50-60 years ago.

But there are a couple of factors that do affect what we see happening in the area of crafts and manual skills. First, I know that I acquired some of my interest in DIY activities from my dad. He was not a wealthy man, so he had to learn how to do the things that needed to be done. But on top of that, he had lived through the Depression, and his economic outlook on life was greatly affected by that experience. So I suspect that the offspring of parents who enjoyed DIY activities are more likely to also be willing to undertake projects than are the offspring of parents with different lifestyles.

The other factor is that those of us who have achieved the state of geezerdom are likely products of educational systems that encouraged, if not required, some degree of training in manual arts (shop or 'home economics' classes). I had to take those classes, and still use the skills that I learned. My sons, however, didn't have to take shop classes (although I encouraged them to at least try one or two).

The basic principle is that people who were taught at an early age that they could do things with their hands will continue to do things with their hands, even if their profession/occupation focuses more on mental skills.

 

[randyrls]

My father and I built a 30' x 40' cabin. I think the only things we bought was the tar paper for the roof and the nails. Everything else was scrounged, bartered, or salvaged.

When I was young, they tore down one of the oldest buildings in our town. My dad and I got permission and went over there and salvaged all the windows, and about 30 lbs of hand cut nails, and 2 by lumber that later went into the cabin.

We also scrounged wood (2x4) from the local HVAC distributor. We burned it most of the winter. several cords of wood.

 

[leehljp]

. . .
. . . The other factor is that those of us who have achieved the state of geezerdom are likely products of educational systems that encouraged, if not required, some degree of training in manual arts (shop or 'home economics' classes). I had to take those classes, and still use the skills that I learned. My sons, however, didn't have to take shop classes (although I encouraged them to at least try one or two).

The basic principle is that people who were taught at an early age that they could do things with their hands will continue to do things with their hands, even if their profession/occupation focuses more on mental skills.

Exactly. The shop / home economics began to disappear in the late 60's and early 70's in all but some rural areas. This is where I think we lost a generation of do-it-yourself-ers.

 

[duncsuss]

Back to the origin of the thread ...

I went to Totally Turning in Saratoga Springs this past weekend. As always,s the demonstrations were fabulous, and the gallery was very inspiring.

I was also at Totally Turning, and I agree 100% about the gallery: some absolutely wonderful turned art on display.

While the demonstrations (with one exception) were good, I didn't feel excited going in to the weekend. Only one "big name" on the roster, and they had shrunk the number of simultaneous sessions by opening up the walls between Saratoga 1 & 2 and Saratogo 3 & 4 (effectively reducing the options by 2).

They might have had more attendees if they'd paid for a couple more renowned demonstrators. Last time I was there (2017) I saw David Ellsworth and Trent Bosch. The year before, Glen Lucas and Stuart Batty. (Glen was there again this year -- always enjoyable, but I would have liked another of his caliber.)

And they might have had more vendors willing to pay for floor space if they didn't make it so difficult for attendees to actually get into the vendor space.

They didn't open the vendor area until the same time the demonstrations begin, and they shut them down the same time the last demonstration of the day ends. At least this year they extended the lunch break so it was possible to eat something *and* buy a few tools without missing out on demonstrations (or breaking the laws of physics).

I'm glad I went, but ... maybe not next year, unless they get a more exciting line up of demonstrators.

 

[monophoto]

Back to the origin of the thread ...

I was also at Totally Turning, and I agree 100% about the gallery: some

While the demonstrations (with one exception) were good, I didn't feel excited going in to the weekend. Only one "big name" on the roster, and they had shrunk the number of simultaneous sessions by opening up the walls between Saratoga 1 & 2 and Saratogo 3 & 4 (effectively reducing the options by 2).
- - -
They didn't open the vendor area until the same time the demonstrations begin, and they shut them down the same time the last demonstration of the day ends. At least this year they extended the lunch break so it was possible to eat something *and* buy a few tools without missing out on demonstrations (or breaking the laws of physics).

Duncan - Actually, the program layout was the same as in previous years - four 90-minute sessions per day, with a choice of five topics for each of the rotations. The difference this year is that they used different rooms which meant that seating wasn't limited. I think Totally Turning was able to do that because the parallel Northeast Woodworkers show (flat work and carving) offered fewer demonstrations than in the past.


As to 'big name' demonstrators - that's very subjective. I was only there one day, and I thoroughly enjoyed the demonstrations I saw.


I agree with the issue that the sales floor should be open longer, but my view is that I can easily forgo lunch if there is an opportunity to fondle new tools!

 

[thebillofwrites]

I am noticing a paradigm shift in the way things are done in the USA. Less crowds everywhere except at Walmart. Less people knowing what to do or pursuing real "thinking" hobbies.

Great post Lee!
My other life long hobby is building and flying radio controlled airplanes. Started when I was 10 years old and have spent decades learning and perfecting the skills needed to both build from scratch, and then fly them.

Even with the advent of radio systems that we could only have dreamed of back in the 60's, membership decreases each year at the local clubs. The younger generations have not the skills or patience to dare try and build an airplane. Everything has to be ready built and ready to fly for them to even thing about giving it a try. And then when they crash, or have even a minor mishap, they don't even entertain the idea of repairing it. They just chuck it in the trash and buy a new one, or give up the hobby altogether.

It's disheartening to watch this transformation take place. Even when you try to help them out and say lets fix it up for you, you get a "Nah, that's too much trouble"

Oh well, nough said.

Bill

 

[stolicky]

Back to the origin of the thread ...

I went to Totally Turning in Saratoga Springs this past weekend. As always,s the demonstrations were fabulous, and the gallery was very inspiring.

I was also at Totally Turning, and I agree 100% about the gallery: some absolutely wonderful turned art on display.

While the demonstrations (with one exception) were good, I didn't feel excited going in to the weekend. Only one "big name" on the roster, and they had shrunk the number of simultaneous sessions by opening up the walls between Saratoga 1 & 2 and Saratogo 3 & 4 (effectively reducing the options by 2).

They might have had more attendees if they'd paid for a couple more renowned demonstrators. Last time I was there (2017) I saw David Ellsworth and Trent Bosch. The year before, Glen Lucas and Stuart Batty. (Glen was there again this year -- always enjoyable, but I would have liked another of his caliber.)

And they might have had more vendors willing to pay for floor space if they didn't make it so difficult for attendees to actually get into the vendor space.

They didn't open the vendor area until the same time the demonstrations begin, and they shut them down the same time the last demonstration of the day ends. At least this year they extended the lunch break so it was possible to eat something *and* buy a few tools without missing out on demonstrations (or breaking the laws of physics).

I'm glad I went, but ... maybe not next year, unless they get a more exciting line up of demonstrators.

Duncan, et. al.,

A couple of thoughts and questions. I am now on the board of the NWA, which is the parent organization of the AWA (i.e. Totally Turning) and the organization that handles Showcase. You may have seen me bouncing around with my camera and one of my kids. On a side note - I am trying to get my kids interested in what we do as early as possible! I was not directly involved in the organization of the show or symposium, but I do work closely with those who were, and will relay feedback.

Constructive feedback is always welcome. Many of the the things you noted were either the result of comments from previous years, or suggestions that have been heard, considered, and for various reasons, not implemented.

As to presenters for TT. The AWA attempts to get 'big' names, and a few others that are lesser known. There was Kurt and Glenn, and others that I found to be pretty good (that I was able to spend time with). I know it is always a challenge to obtain a variety of presenters and topics, and work the show into their schedules. The planning is done well over a year ahead of time. It is a challenge to get enough variety that generally appeals to everyone.

As to the vendors, the timing has been a complaint from previous years, and I tend to agree. The one thing I was told (which took me a bit by surprise) is that there has to be a consensus among all vendors to be 'open' at those times, and not all are interested. Unless every vendor participates, it is a problem because their booths cannot be left empty with the public wandering around them. Note, the vendor area is actually part of Showcase, and the hours correspond with that event.

The change in the doubling of the room sizes occurred a couple of years ago. There was too much interested in a couple of presenters and the crowd grew too large. Not only were people upset by not being able to see the presenter they wanted to, but the hotel stepped in and require the club to make a change. That may have been the last time you were there. The change in room sizes results in less crowding, which may also be why you felt there was a lower turnout this year. In actuality, it was a near record turnout.

A couple more notes: All of Totally Turning and Showcase is run by well over 100 (maybe 200+ w/ setup and mobilization) members in the clubs. It is a completely volunteer effort, and a huge undertaking. We want a big turnout, and we want to make it the best we possibly can. Like I said, offer suggestions on how we can make it better, and I promise the effort will be considered/made if possible.

Feel free to PM me if you. These types of events are dwindling, and we need to do the best we can to make them attractive and well attended.

Thank you for speaking up.