Scotty
Member
Good(1) Grief(2).
All members please read!!!
- Thread starter plantman
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jd99
Member
Hey Smitty do you still have the IBM Uniform? :biggrin:
"pin-striped suits, white button-down shirts, rep ties and wing-tipped shoes"
azamiryou
Member
By and large, someone who's unimpressed by a pen simply won't post. Why would they bother to write "nice"? If someone is critical of a pen and inclined to post, they'll almost certainly post their criticism rather than just "nice".
So for me, I take a one-word "nice" post to mean somebody liked the pen enough to go a step beyond just clicking "like" - and that's a positive thing.
Not true; it can take significant introspection to go from a general positive reaction to figuring out exactly what is causing the positive reaction. In fact, most of the time people who try to do this fail. They come up with something ("I like the color!") but this is not the whole story ("That's funny... this pen I don't like is the same color...")
There's a reason we have the old saw that "I don't know much about _______, but I know what I like!"
So when someone sees a pen that they like, you're asking them to think about why they like it, then find a way to put it into words. This could well change a 20-second task into a 5- to 10-minute task. That's a pretty big burden, especially on such an active forum.
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Russianwolf
Member
Classic example!!! This is not a bible class, it's a pen turners association. Did you agree with what I suggested or not? You forgot to mention that. Looks to me like a ploy to get your web site seen. Smart answers like this are just a waste of time for this website. Take your freedom of speach somewhere else, or make some productive comments. The point was to get away from one word answers!!! If I misunderstood your answer disreguard the above. Jim S
Sheesh
IPD_Mr
Member
When I first read this thread yesterday, I will admit that I thought about a one word post. What can I say, I am a smarta$$. :biggrin:
But what I did take away from this was that this is a forum, a forum is a social tool, so why not be more social.
Whether you agree or not the OP has an opinion and I give him credit for opening up and expressing it.
But what I did take away from this was that this is a forum, a forum is a social tool, so why not be more social.
Whether you agree or not the OP has an opinion and I give him credit for opening up and expressing it.
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alamocdc
Member
Especially if you type with only 2 fingers, like me!:biggrin:
Don't worry Plantman. When you've been here a while you will understand that the vast majority of members here are thick-oh's and more than one or two words is wasted on them anyway. 
:biggrin:
:biggrin:
Craftdiggity
Member
I actually almost agreed with you, but then I thought about the arrogance it takes to belittle the manner in which others interact in a social setting. So, now people don't get to just be themselves? They can't just like a piece for the sake of it? They have to explain in greater detail why they like it?
It is really no different online than in real life. Some people are more outgoing socially than others, while some are content to sit on the outskirts and just observe. When I show my pens off to friends and family, some of them tell me exactly what they like or dislike about them, while others just say, "Nice," or "Cool," or whatever. I never thought to tell them what lazy social jerks they were because they didn't take the time to compose a more detailed oratory about my pen. Why? Because I don't presume to dictate how another human being ought to respond to my work.
LOL - do you really think that after 32 years there, I needed to be reminded what the "uniform" was??? At any rate you are only partly correct - it was dark blue suit (which could be pin-striped), white shirt and red striped tie. (later it was changed to "customary attire at the customer's place of business").
It did not apply in factories, suit or sports jacket, dress shirt and tie (of course that applied to the janitors as well as other workers). We used to get a big laugh out of seeing guys show up in a suit and tie carrying a brief case - go to their locker and change to their "maintenance" uniform (which. by the way, was the only actual 'uniform' provided by IBM) and do their job - then change back to the suit to go home. They usually carried their lunch in the brief cases.
I personally never owned a dark blue suit and until I got my 6th promotion dressed pretty well as I pleased as did most of the employees at the location where I worked for the last 25 years I was there. The last 10 years I dressed well but not in conformance with the norm....the guys who dressed in "standard business attire" were in envy that I could have so much color in my wardrobe. They lacked imagination.
I was, however, good enough at my job that my bosses would put up with a bit more than they might have from someone else....we had a few programmers who dressed like homeless street people but they were good enough to get away with it also.
ironman123
Member
Hmmmmm
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
Everyone needs to relax a little bit, it's not that serious.
There is a part of the US constitution called freedom of speech, that means one word or many.
There is a part of the US constitution called freedom of speech, that means one word or many.
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Jgrden
Member
I have taken and have given. So I am a happy turner with a clear mind. However, that being said, here is one more shot: I cannot get past Dr. Stangefart's avatar with the clown barfing into the toilet. I love his work, his enthusiasm, his creativity, his passion for not using the "kit" center band and his support that he has given me. But the clown; I'd pay good money to see it removed. :biggrin:
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Heck, there hasn't been a multi-page pile on in a while... 
One word beats the heck out of no response at all, especially in SOYP. Sometimes people only have time for a short reply - or they're trying to twiddle their fingers on a blackberry, or a billion other reasons.
As well, a few short words are a lot easier to read than a three page discourse that could have been said with much more brevity.
Let people respond how they like - one word, one page, no words - everyone's different.
One word beats the heck out of no response at all, especially in SOYP. Sometimes people only have time for a short reply - or they're trying to twiddle their fingers on a blackberry, or a billion other reasons.
As well, a few short words are a lot easier to read than a three page discourse that could have been said with much more brevity.
Let people respond how they like - one word, one page, no words - everyone's different.
LouCee
Member
At least it wasn't a PSI rant!
hewunch
Member
titan2
Member
Boy, was someone's panties in a bunch or what???
IMHO a post in all BOLD letters is the same as using all CAPS..........No body likes to be YELLED at!
Get'em unbunched, loosen the belt, kick your feet up and chill!!! You'll live longer & be happier!!!
Barney
IMHO a post in all BOLD letters is the same as using all CAPS..........No body likes to be YELLED at!
Get'em unbunched, loosen the belt, kick your feet up and chill!!! You'll live longer & be happier!!!
Barney
bitshird
Member
When some one asks for comments and or critique, I try my best to give an honest opinion, if I see an over or under turned nib, finial, or centerband I say so, if the finish looks wonky I also will pop up. But please understand there are a few Pen Craftsmen, that trying to critique them would be like trying to argue Physics with Steven Hawking.
Their work is constantly above reproach or criticizing, so what else can we say other than Nice, or great color, or your threads are awesome. Also some folks don't take kindly to even mild criticism, so you kind of have to know the poster and what they are capable of, and it takes some time, to learn who these folks are, or risk ever seeing their work again, and that would be a loss to them, (honest critiquing) and us fro watching them develop and get to the caliber of lets say Texindurango, Wizard, Timebandit, and about 10 or 15 more that come to mind.
Their work is constantly above reproach or criticizing, so what else can we say other than Nice, or great color, or your threads are awesome. Also some folks don't take kindly to even mild criticism, so you kind of have to know the poster and what they are capable of, and it takes some time, to learn who these folks are, or risk ever seeing their work again, and that would be a loss to them, (honest critiquing) and us fro watching them develop and get to the caliber of lets say Texindurango, Wizard, Timebandit, and about 10 or 15 more that come to mind.
plantman
Member
Sorry if I offended you in any way!! I was a little quick on the trigger, and it was late at night. No excuse!! But the point being, unless I personaly know you, or are talking to you face to face, I have no idea in what context you are answering me. I seem to have started a firestorm by just asking for more feedback on peoples projects. That is the way we learn and grow. I have no problem with someone putting their website in their thread, or quoting scriptures!! Keep spreading the word in both your believes and craft. Funny, I think that is one in the same. Jim S
wood-of-1kind
Member
Jim, "OK" is a response with a little bit of "sarcasm" to your post. No harm intended here. I personally like my comments to be "brief" and I just want to say that I enjoy the work that is being presented wothout going into a long winded explanation. "nice" is just that, "nice work" and is offered as encoragement.
You spent too much time in chat rooms - I send all my emails in bold. Why? Because, like me, many of the folks I email are getting along in years and bold is easier to read.
CSue
Local Chapter Leader
Now, Plantman, I understand completely why you considered the thought based on observations that have begun to irk you - and why you took the time and effort to "spell it out". You have quite a valuable point - that should be considered especially when people newer to this site are posting their pens - and for those who make a point of saying "comments & criticisms welcome" (c&c welcome.)
But there are those on this site like me. I honestly do want to contribute and participate. But I have a brain problem (seriously) and when I have to take time to write out an explanation of all the what's, why's and such of a simple word like "nice", it is quite an ordeal!
When I read your initial post here, and your response to "ok" fired off quickly after, I realized this whole issue has really been eating at you. All these people with all this knowledge and experience and - like the one person who already said they haven't posted their work since the poor response . . . We should take the extra step and say more. And you have every right to feel that way. And we have an obligation, if we take the time to read all this thread, to keep these matters in the back of our minds and maybe be more aware of when taking the time to punch "Like" or say a word or go into detailed comment is most important.
However, you need to be aware of the fact that there are a bunch of people here who've been carrying on for many years and have come to see everyone here as familiar as friends - and that this does lead to more lighthearted interjections.
From the newest, "I've never turned a pen before" to those most of us look to as experts in one way or another, we all respond in different ways. And the most important thing I've culled from all these pages of interaction in response to you first post here, is that it really is not just helpful but important in some way to respond to those works others here post for critique. And you need to realize, we are all different in our abilities, capabilities and time to respond.
When I say "Nice" I mean I don't just want to check the "Like" box but I don't have the words or thought process to go into more detail.
And now that I've used more words here than I have all year, :bulgy-eyes:
Joe S.
Member
I have a habit of picturing someone by their avatar. And I have been halfway surprised by pictures of people when it's not a clown, Einstien, or a goonie with a machine gun!
Then again, you all see me as a carbide cutter...
Haynie
Member
This is my opinion. Unless you shoot a high res zoomable 360 degree pano video of your pen and by some quirk of fate the size limit restriction on this site lets you post it, and I am also looking at the high res zoomable 360 degree pano on a high res color corrected monitor that is synced with your highres color corrected monitor, I am not going to be able to tell you anything about a pen's fit and finish that is certain. I guess you could post a link to a site that has a close up shot of every part of your pen and I could look at that but still unless I am looking at things with a high quality monitor I might mistake pixel noise for poor fit and finish.
This is what happened a few months ago. A fine custom (kitless) pen was posted. Another custom (kitless) pen maker made comments on the pens fit and finish that offended the maker. I am as convinced now as I was then that the commenter was viewing noise that distorted the image and made it look like the parts did not fit perfectly. When it comes to fit and finish, unless there are glaring issues we cannot see them. Especially on a small device like a smart phone.
Sometimes a pen is not worthy of more than a one word response. If you want more of a response ask specific questions about your pen and responders will answer them. If you post "what do you think of my new pen?" you are going to get one word responses. Now if you said, "I finished this pen it seems fine to me but I was not too sure about the shape, what do you think?", you would get responses directed at the shape. You get what you ask for.
As a side note typing your entire post in large bold print only serves to make you appear to be lecturing. Rubs some folks the wrong way.
This is what happened a few months ago. A fine custom (kitless) pen was posted. Another custom (kitless) pen maker made comments on the pens fit and finish that offended the maker. I am as convinced now as I was then that the commenter was viewing noise that distorted the image and made it look like the parts did not fit perfectly. When it comes to fit and finish, unless there are glaring issues we cannot see them. Especially on a small device like a smart phone.
Sometimes a pen is not worthy of more than a one word response. If you want more of a response ask specific questions about your pen and responders will answer them. If you post "what do you think of my new pen?" you are going to get one word responses. Now if you said, "I finished this pen it seems fine to me but I was not too sure about the shape, what do you think?", you would get responses directed at the shape. You get what you ask for.
As a side note typing your entire post in large bold print only serves to make you appear to be lecturing. Rubs some folks the wrong way.
Haynie
Member
What about WiseT's farting alien? I get a kick out of that one.
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
Don't worry Plantman. When you've been here a while you will understand that the vast majority of members here are thick-oh's and more than one or two words is wasted on them anyway.
yuh
louisbry
Member
Noted!
wouldentu2?
Member
When you see that hot woman do you say "nice" or do you go into a 2 page reason she is good looking 
Rick P
Member
Csue hit on something many here know about me. I am severely dyslexic and any post I write takes a fair amount of effort. ma'I reven eruhs wich og ot yaw........look closely you'll get it! And yes the order of the last 4 is way off.
Hayne is spot on as well I have even fixed pics for new members that didn't look like the same pen when they were lightened up and getting an ACCURATE representation of my own work is still a major frustration! I have a rather extensive photography back ground it must be even more difficult for new members and those who just dont like cameras. Heck learning the abbreviations and my way around the computer has been a challenge in and of it's self!
PS Remember that a lot of us are hangin out for coffee like we have every morning for some time now.....and guys AT LEAST HE ISN"T DEMANDING PHOTOS OF US THINKING!!!!!!!! (here is a good example Plantman you wont get that, long time members will!)
Hayne is spot on as well I have even fixed pics for new members that didn't look like the same pen when they were lightened up and getting an ACCURATE representation of my own work is still a major frustration! I have a rather extensive photography back ground it must be even more difficult for new members and those who just dont like cameras. Heck learning the abbreviations and my way around the computer has been a challenge in and of it's self!
PS Remember that a lot of us are hangin out for coffee like we have every morning for some time now.....and guys AT LEAST HE ISN"T DEMANDING PHOTOS OF US THINKING!!!!!!!! (here is a good example Plantman you wont get that, long time members will!)
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When you see that hot woman do you say "nice" or do you go into a 2 page reason she is good looking
So you seen Charlies pen too?
alamocdc
Member
When you see that hot woman do you say "nice" or do you go into a 2 page reason she is good looking
Neither if SWMBO is around! I'd like to live through the night!
Haynie
Member
When you see that hot woman do you say "nice" or do you go into a 2 page reason she is good looking
So you seen Charlies pen too?
This is a family site, leave charlie's pen out of it.
plantman
Member
Tomas: Sometimes you have to stir up the bees if you want to get at the honey, although this was far from my intension. I just would like to see a little more feedback for some of the newer members on the site so that they may improve their knowledge and craftsmanship. I can't see where anyone would have a problem with that. Jim S
Displaced Canadian
Member
All kidding aside I do see your point. It's not just the new turners that can benefit from feedback.
plantman
Member
. Smart answers like this are just a waste of time for this website. Take your freedom of speach somewhere else, or make some productive comments. The point was to get away from one word answers!!! If I misunderstood your answer disreguard the above. Jim S
And who exactly are you to tell me how we need to respond? You were the hall monitor in school weren't you?
No, I was not the hall monitor, and I did not tell you to do anything!! I mearly suggested that some members of this group that have the greater experence and knowledge might give just a little more help to those that ask for it. This only make the group stronger. I can't see where anyone would not agree with this idea, or that a more educated and knowledgeable group is not a better group? Now, when you answer me in two sentences, I understand where you are comming from !! Jim SLagniappeRob
Member
I don't think anyone would. I didn't. I did, however, have a problem with being told to forget my right to freedom of speech, follow your "rule" or leave comment, as well as the overall "feel" of the posts. I have the right to post as I please within the acceptable limits established by the people who run this site. You have the right to read them or not. You do NOT have the right to tell me, or anyone else, how they should post.
GaryMGg
Member
plantman
Member
:biggrin::biggrin: I think you went a little deep on my word "nice", it was just an example, and had no real meaning. However I did get more than a one word answer out of you!! THAT was the whole purpose of the thread in the first place.
Thank you for your time and input. Jim S
hewunch
Member
"if?"
Help me understand Jim, how was I supposed to take these statements?
Because they look to me like you are attacking not only my calling but my business and my rights. All because why? Oh, that's right, I said "OK". And if I hadn't done it, I promise you, at least 5 other people would have. Some of whom may not be as thick skinned as I am.
Nor can I. I have no issue with that in the least.
Nope, you told me to take my freedom of "speach" elsewhere.
If that was a suggestion, I would love to see what a demand is like.
Jim,
Now for the longer answer you would like. If I had this concern, I would have phrased it more like this.
"I know there are folks who have been here much longer than me who want to see folks get better at what they do. What do you folks think about trying to give, especially our newer turners, a little more along the lines of helpful hints. Such as, "I really like ____", or "perhaps you could give a little more attention to ____."
My answer would have probably been the same, but I would have thought about shorter comments to those who had been members for less than a year. As it stands, I think the best we can hope for now is that you think twice about the tone of your post and tearing the head off a fellow member here.
edstreet
Member
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plantman
Member
Funny I don't remember being arrogant or belittleing anyone on this site. And I don't know what your friends are like, but I don't recall calling anybody a social lazy jerk that I can remember. The reason your friends don't comment to much on your pens, is because they probably don't know what it takes to make one. I also did not dictate how you should respond!! Only suggested that some more experenced turners could point some of the newer people in the right direction. It's a new concept called progress. Thank you for your more than one word comment, but please keep your facts straight when you do so. Jim S
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