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Bubblesismyn

Bubblesismyn

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This is my usual set up for pen turning, if anyone has any suggestions on how I can do it a different way I am all ears. The lathe I originally started on is an Atlas 1939 model metal lathe and then it decided to breakdown and it will c9st me 2700 for 2 parts so I bought my Sherline as it was advertised as an amazing wood lathe.
 

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What parts broke on the Atlas?
If you turn between centres (centres in American ;) ) one barrel at a time your tailstock won't be overhanging the bed and be more stable. Do you use a pattern for the cross slide to follow or just turn straight?

And welcome to the forum.
 
Curly said:
What parts broke on the Atlas?
If you turn between centres (centres in American ;) ) one barrel at a time your tailstock won't be overhanging the bed and be more stable. Do you use a pattern for the cross slide to follow or just turn straight?

And welcome to the forum.
Click to expand...
I usually just turn straight as I don't know how to make patterns or use hand tools.

The spindle and the gears are what broke and when I called Atlas they said it would cost 2700 for the parts and an additional 600 for shipping. I figured at that price I could buy 2-3 new lathes.
 
April, Welcome to IAP.

I started off with a Taig in 2004, which back then was identical to the basic Sherline, except Sherline had far more configurations. Parts were interchangeable. I think I ordered a couple of shoreline parts for mine but I can't remember which parts I ordered now. I used the same basic setup that you have for about 2 years, until I purchased a Rikon 12". I had a similar cross slide as you showed in your picts, but did not use it for pen turning.

It worked well for pens, and as long as I didn't try larger items it worked fine. I did try it with the cross slide for turning a few pieces of aluminum. As to pens, it worked well. I was living in Japan at the time. When home (in the USA) in Nov/Dec of 2004, I purchased the Taig and numerous parts to get started in turning pens. I already had normal woodworking tools such as drill press, table saw and band saw with me over in Japan. I put the Taig and all the parts in my suitcase and carried them back to Japan (Nagoya/Toyota City. Just prior to that, I had lived in Osaka for 14 years. Home hobby lathes were impossible to find over there in hardware stores, tool stores or home centers.


As my Taig turning experience increased, my turning desires increased also. I needed the ability to change chucks and chuck sizes as I got into duck calls and a few other larger items. In 2006 I bought the Rikon, and in 2008, I moved to Turning Between Centers (TBC) and away from Mandrels because of inherent problems with them in certain situations. I never did try the Taig with TBC but I think it could have done great. I have forgotten which extra items I had for the Taig. I need to find all of the parts and get it running again, but I have two other larger lathes that I use now.

While I enjoyed learning on the Taig, it was limiting with anything much larger than a large pen. But for pens, it worked well.
 
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I read on the other thread that you had an MT 1 on the head stock and MT0 on the tail stock. Even though you haven't asked about TBC and what it is, It is more simple than it sounds. It is a method of turning one blank at a time instead of two as on a mandrel. In general it can be more precise in some situations versus a mandrel. I would have to see all the parts you have for the Sherline to help walk you through it.

Otherwise you have what you need for turning with a mandrel on the Sherline. One Item I do not see is the tool rest. If I remember correctly there are / were two different tool rests available, a single post and a dual post tool rest. I used the dual post tool rest, I think. I would have to find my parts to know for sure.

I searched for tool rests and only found 1 here: https://taigtools.com/product/4-inch-swivel-joint-tool-rest-wood-turners/
A tool rest sure would help in your turning on the Sherline. If you can find one on a Sherline site, it might cost less, but I am not certain.
 
leehljp said:
I read on the other thread that you had an MT 1 on the head stock and MT0 on the tail stock. Even though you haven't asked about TBC and what it is, It is more simple than it sounds. It is a method of turning one blank at a time instead of two as on a mandrel. In general it can be more precise in some situations versus a mandrel. I would have to see all the parts you have for the Sherline to help walk you through it.

Otherwise you have what you need for turning with a mandrel on the Sherline. One Item I do not see is the tool rest. If I remember correctly there are / were two different tool rests available, a single post and a dual post tool rest. I used the dual post tool rest, I think. I would have to find my parts to know for sure.

I searched for tool rests and only found 1 here: https://taigtools.com/product/4-inch-swivel-joint-tool-rest-wood-turners/
A tool rest sure would help in your turning on the Sherline. If you can find one on a Sherline site, it might cost less, but I am not certain.
Click to expand...
Mine did come with a small tool rest, the only tool I have ever used was a carbide tipped tool seen below. I do own TBCs but they won't fit in my tailstock and I can purchase a MT0 from Sherline for $128. I am debating whether or not I want to keep sinking in money by changing so many things or just purchase a new lathe where I can do different stuff. I really enjoy making pens, but I have a few issues with my tube's coming out of my blanks but after talking to Ed I know what I was doing wrong. I am so grateful for all the help I am receiving here.
 

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As far as TBC, you can use mandrel bushings on any pointed live center on the tailstock.

Here is the first DRIVE center used on the first TBC on this forum back in 2007 or 2008, and it was used on standard mandrel bushings back then:
www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org

This is the setup of the first TBC and it was not the 60Ā° that some people say is needed. For specialty 60Ā° bushings, a 60Ā° live center and drive center are necessary. But if you use standard Mandrel Bushings, any size live / drive center should work.
www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org

This is the tool rest for woodturning and it worked OK for me. I later bought the dual post tool rest:
https://taigtools.com/product/4-inch-swivel-joint-tool-rest-wood-turners/

I have the one you show in your pict above, but that is for metal turning.

What kind of chisel are you using for turning wood?
 
leehljp said:
As far as TBC, you can use mandrel bushings on any pointed live center on the tailstock.

Here is the first DRIVE center used on the first TBC on this forum back in 2007 or 2008, and it was used on standard mandrel bushings back then:
www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org

This is the setup of the first TBC and it was not the 60Ā° that some people say is needed. For specialty 60Ā° bushings, a 60Ā° live center and drive center are necessary. But if you use standard Mandrel Bushings, any size live / drive center should work.
www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org

This is the tool rest for woodturning and it worked OK for me. I later bought the dual post tool rest:
https://taigtools.com/product/4-inch-swivel-joint-tool-rest-wood-turners/

I have the one you show in your pict above, but that is for metal turning.

What kind of chisel are you using for turning wood?
Click to expand...
I don't have any hand tools, although I did order a round and square tool from easy wood tools last night along with negative rakes per speaking with Ed.
 
The Easy wood tools will work fine. but you still will need a tool rest. The tools need a place to rest on and keep the tool steady.

Here are pictures of tool rests:

Without a tool rest, it is difficult to have consistency in turning a smooth linear line, or curves for that matter. The picture of your Sherline shows that it is set up as a metal turning lathe, not wood. Wood turning requires a tool rest to keep the tool steady and then slide the tool from one end to another. The link I shared earlier may not be long enough to allow you to slide the tool from one end of the mandrel and blank to the other end. For the
Taig I purchased a two post tool rest so that it allowed me to move/slide the chisel (in your case the Easy tool) from one end to the other.

You will need to take the cross slide and metal tool post off to turn wood.

Here is a link to Ed's you tube that shows the chisel tool (but you will use and Easy Tool) and it is resting on the tool rest. The user slides it from one end to another. There are many many videos that show wood turning and chisel use (on a tool rest). That is different than using the cross slide and tool post with square cutter that you showed. The tool post allows you to control the tools movement precisely.
 
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One other note: you have asked or mentioned twice: should you continue with the Sherline or purchase a new wood lathe. If you DO purchased a wood lathe,1. get an MT2 lathe, 2. look for an electronically variable speed lathe. Changing belts two or three times on wood lathes become bothersome after a while. Quite different than changing belt speeds on a Sherline/Taig lathe.
 
Bubblesismyn said:
This is my usual set up for pen turning, if anyone has any suggestions on how I can do it a different way I am all ears. The lathe I originally started on is an Atlas 1939 model metal lathe and then it decided to breakdown and it will c9st me 2700 for 2 parts so I bought my Sherline as it was advertised as an amazing wood lathe.
Click to expand...
First thing I notice is the setup at the head stock wastes way too much length. I see a face plate holding a collet chuck holding some sort of a center. You have at least 2" - 3" protrusion at the headstock that should only be maybe 1" protrusion. I also see that the quill on the tail stock is protruding at least 1-1/2" and should be no more than is needed to maintain the connection of the center's morse taper in the quill. Reduce that wasted length and you regain stability for the tail stock.
If that is not possible then I also suggest removing the mandrel setup and hold each barrel, one at a time, between the two centers using the bushings currrently being used with the mandrel setup. Those bushings may not be ideal for TBC but they will do. I've used the standard bushings for years and turned very fine pens.
The use of the carbide tool in the tool holder of the cross slide is, ok.
The issue with metal lathe use for pen turning is that you are very dependent on the head stock to tail stock alignment to be able to turn straight and even blanks. Using a wood turning style tool holder and hand held turning tools is you can easily adjust for any out of alignment between the headstock and the tailstock (which in your picture is an issue due to the overhang of the tailstock) and also allows you to generate different profiles on the blanks such as elongated coves and or elongates beads.
 
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I think you will really like the Easy Wood Tools carbide hand tools. I started out with them, but later started to build my own using the lathe and some square steel bar stock. I'm not sure about how to attach a wood lathe type tool rest to a metal lathe, but I have heard of some people mounting a 4" or 5" inch piece of round stock in their tool holder and then positioning their tool holder offset and clamping it down to use the round stock as a tool rest. For carbide cutters like Easy Wood Tools, the cutter should address the wood/plastic blank on the centerline. Since your lathe is not designed for this kind of use, please be extra careful in whatever you wind up doing. - Best Regards, Dave
 
Mortalis said:
First thing I notice is the setup at the head stock wastes way too much length. I see a face plate holding a collet chuck holding some sort of a center. You have at least 2" - 3" protrusion at the headstock that should only be maybe 1" protrusion. I also see that the quill on the tail stock is protruding at least 1-1/2" and should be no more than is needed to maintain the connection of the center's morse taper in the quill. Reduce that wasted length and you regain stability for the tail stock.
If that is not possible then I also suggest removing the mandrel setup and hold each barrel, one at a time, between the two centers using the bushings currrently being used with the mandrel setup. Those bushings may not be ideal for TBC but they will do. I've used the standard bushings for years and turned very fine pens.
The use of the carbide tool in the tool holder of the cross slide is, ok.
The issue with metal lathe use for pen turning is that you are very dependent on the head stock to tail stock alignment to be able to turn straight and even blanks. Using a wood turning style tool holder and hand held turning tools is you can easily adjust for any out of alignment between the headstock and the tailstock (which in your picture is an issue due to the overhang of the tailstock) and also allows you to generate different profiles on the blanks such as elongated coves and or elongates beads.
Click to expand...
When I bought my Sherline it was advertised as a wood lathe, upon speaking with Ed who was very, very helpful and knowledgeable informed me that it is actually a metal lathe. My head dropped in disappointment as I spent at least a grand on it approximately 12 years ago.
 
Bubblesismyn said:
When I bought my Sherline it was advertised as a wood lathe, upon speaking with Ed who was very, very helpful and knowledgeable informed me that it is actually a metal lathe. My head dropped in disappointment as I spent at least a grand on it approximately 12 years ago.
Click to expand...
I fully understand your situation of financial outlay versus disappointment.
I am only making suggestions so that you can optimize the use of what you now have to work with. @egnald mentions a descent recommendation for using a length of steel mounted in the tool holder as a wood turning tool rest.
I can also suggest that you may be able to pick up a used wood lathe either through Facebook Marketplace or <shutter> Craigslist. you could also put your current lathe on Marketplace to recoup some of the original outlay to help offset a different pen making setup.

Good luck on your journey.
 
Mortalis said:
I fully understand your situation of financial outlay versus disappointment.
I am only making suggestions so that you can optimize the use of what you now have to work with. @egnald mentions a descent recommendation for using a length of steel mounted in the tool holder as a wood turning tool rest.
I can also suggest that you may be able to pick up a used wood lathe either through Facebook Marketplace or <shutter> Craigslist. you could also put your current lathe on Marketplace to recoup some of the original outlay to help offset a different pen making setup.

Good luck on your journey.
Click to expand...
I honestly thought about turning my Sherline into my drill press and getting a good, decent wood lathe. Any ideas on what would be a good wood lathe? Any suggestions and opinions are very welcome.
 
I have a Jet 1221VS variable speed that has treated me very well, with a couple of improvements, tool rests from Rockler (I would have used Rick Herrell's tool rest if I would have found him first), An improved banjo clamp nut from Rick Herrell, and a Dust Rite Dust Collector from Rockler.

I've also seen a relatively new lathe offering from Rockler, their VS 12-24 looks like a pretty good midi sized lathe for the money. Good range on their variable speed, 1.2HP motor, MT2 for both spindle and tailstock or 1" x 8 TPI for the spindle.

Of course there are lots and lots of other quality midi style lathes around, these are just the two that I am familiar with.

Dave
 
That machine is perfectly capable of turning pens and probably to a much higher precision than can be accomplished on a wood lathe unless you happen to be exceptionally skilled. The Z axis leadscrew has been replaced with a lever which makes it much faster than the standard leadscrew setup, but it also loses some versatility by doing so. I make pens from scratch, including eyedroppers with shut-off valves, piston fillers and syringe fillers, and I do all of that on my Sherline machines.

I would start by doing a bit more research on the machine and how to use it. It seems your tool bit isn't in the correct orientation. The setup looks longer than necessary, which can lead to chatter and deflection. If you can get a milling collet of the correct size, that would take a couple inches out. Cutting only one piece at a time, barrel or cap, would make it much easier. The only real problem those short bed lathes have that's hard to work around is deep drilling since you tend to run out of length.
 
April, Oliver is right. The machine that you have is capable of higher precision than a wood lathe unless one is exceptionally skilled on a wood lathe. But that is not where you are, nor what you are wanting to accomplish. For wood turning, it will be much easier and more simple with greater rewards for you on a wood lathe with wood tools. Wood tools use different cutting edges/blades than metal machining tools. Sure there are some specialty blades for machine tools to cut wood, but they are more or less after thoughts, whereas wood tools are designed specifically for wood. And once you have a good wood lathe, the options are much much more than wood options on a Sherline or Taig.

I pulled out most of my Taig today and haven't found all of it, including the dual post tool rest., well it has been 17 years since I last used it and it has been in storage since. I cannot find that dual post tool rest for wood turning online, even in a google search. But that was 20 years ago that I bought it. The reason I keep mentioning it - is because the single post tool rest is too short to move a chisel from one end to another, meaning that you will have to move the tool rest to do one end and then move to the other end to do the blank on that end. It is doable but will get aggravating after a while.

Jet, Rockler, Rikon are great, and even PennState's turn crafters will get you started : https://www.pennstateind.com/store/KWL-1018VS.html
 
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egnald said:
I found a Wood Tool Rest Set on the Sherline web site Sherline.com in their Products/Accessories/Lathe Accessories/Wood Turning area. They also show a Morse #1 taper Tailstock for Pen Makers.

Although it isn't inexpensive it would be less than a new dedicated wood lathe.

Dave
Click to expand...
I was thinking about getting the MT1 tailstock, a drill chuck and a a centering Chuck so I can have everything I need for the setup I have, but I really wanted help to see if my lathe was metal or wood. I have made several pens over the years but have had some issues with my tube's coming out of my blanks, breaking and chipping of my acrylics/wood/(my least favorite micapearl). Ed helped me with some solutions on that part.

I am very thankful for all of you that have given me such wonderful advise. Thank all of you!
 
Metric tailstocks have metric leadscrews, advance 1mm per revolution, and have 100 divisions on the handwheel. Inch tailstocks have inch leadscrews, advance .05" per revolution and have 50 divisions on the handwheel. Metric is more precise. The only differences between the metric and inch lathes are the leadscrews and associated hardware and handwheels. All the other hardware and physical part dimensions are otherwise the same so you can simply pick whatever system you prefer working in as either tailstock will fit your lathe the same way.
 
What are you familiar with? Personally I can take metric or inch, and have since childhood. Going to metric Japan for a quarter century wasn't a problem for me, but a number of my USA friends had trouble understanding metric. Pick the one you are most familiar with. Probably inch, otherwise you may end up wishing you had stayed with the familiar.
 
I have had Taig and Sherline lathes and produced pens and pen parts on both of them before moving up to larger lathes. Your Sherline has a 0 stub morse taper. the longer O mt will not work with it.
Compare Discountcampus.com for sherline parts. They are a distributor of Sherline and often times cheaper than the Sherline website.
The issues you will have is drilling on the shorter sherline. It doesnt have much working length and drilling with larger bits can be a challenge. The bits tend to pull the chuck out of the tail stock or spin the whole thing. If you continue using the sherline consider buying an ER32 collet chuck to fit it. Bealls tool no longer makes them but I see that there is a kit on Amazon that is the same as Penstate Ind. sells.
Unfortunately the Er32 collets tend to eat up quite a bit of the travel you have but you can grip a single blank at a time.
The ones that have a morse taper mounting system are not as useful as one that has a hole all the way through it for holding longer stock.
I used the sherline for years producing parts and pens. They have lots of accesories all though they are somewhat costly. Taig also uses a 3/4- 16 Thread on the spindle so their chucks will mount on sherline lathes but may require a space for seating.
You can always sell the Sherline if its not going to do what you want to for making pens, they hold their value.
 
Bubblesismyn said:
I'm not familiar with any of those, how do they work?
Click to expand...
Rather than a chuck as on a drill press that turns one way or the other to hold drill bits of different sizes, these chucks are intended for the user to find the one nearest the size you want to use such as 1/4". Pick the chuck that fits best with the drill bit or other rod you need to use. Tightening it will allow each chuck to tighten 1/64" or maybe even 1/32". That is why there are several chucks in a set. Each one fits a very narrow leeway in size. That said, and within that framework, they are very precise and hold well.
 
I'm sorry, I know I'm asking tons of questions about all sorts of stuff. I have been successful in turning but I'm not a professional and would like to get better than I am. If my lathe is good then anything I can do to make it more better I'll take all the help I can get.
 
Headstock! Don't worry about asking questions. This is a Questions Friendly Forum! There are many many people here that are helpful and willing to answer questions. The only problem is that if we have 40,000 members, you might get 41,000 answers, and 40,500 will be correct! šŸ˜Š
 
This is what an er32 collet chuck looks like. 1722441157155.png
It replaces your 3 or 4 jaw chuck, Unfortunately Beall tool shut down and the company product line was picked up by Lee Valley co. They no longer carry the 3/4- 16 threaded collet chuck. I have seen them available with an adapter to fit the sherline but your accuracy will suffer.
One advantage it had was drilling, the collet would clamp onto the outside blank and support it when drillling to help keep it from shattering if the material was brittle. The jaws on the regular chucks are shorter and dont support longer work very well. It is probably not a great answer for you, its about 3 inches long and you dont have much travel on the shorter bed.
Hank is correct ask all the questions you want or need to. This is probably the best forum for tolerance for new turners asking for help.
 
Is it true when painting blanks you want to drill the hole slightly bigger to avoid scrapping the paint from inside? I have watched videos where some drill bigger holes and some leave them alone. I have seen Q-tips used and some use acid brushes to paint the insides. I have acrylic paints and several tester model paints from other projects I have done besides pen making. What is the best CA glue? I have been using BSI thick glue and noticed it hardens rather quickly if not used in a timely manner.
 
If you paint the hole, try to avoid CA. Epoxy is much more friendly to the paint.

Also let the paint dry for a couple days, if possible--again the paint is harder to scratch or smear if it is thoroughly cured.
 
Bubblesismyn said:

Will this work for the lathe I have? Some of my kits require 10.5 mm and 12.5 mm. I ordered a MT1 tailstock so my mandrel saver and TBC will fit. I have heard good things about this set up and would like opinions if this would work.
Click to expand...
I use the blank holding chuck and a drill chuck to drill all my blanks on the lathe. As long as the tapers work with your machine that is ideal for drill blanks.
 
Mortalis said:
I use the blank holding chuck and a drill chuck to drill all my blanks on the lathe. As long as the tapers work with your machine that is ideal for drill blanks.
Click to expand...
My Sherline came with a MT1 headstock and a MT0 for the tailstock so I purchased an MT1 tailstock so I could make more things work hopefully before giving up and buying a new lathe.
 
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If you dont already have one a center drill will be a big help in drilling. Here is a picture of a set of them from Harbor Freight.
currently around $8
1723126321042.png
 
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