Advice on getting my tools together

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larrystephens

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Dec 4, 2006
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323
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Arlington, Texas, USA.
I have had the taps and dies since the group purchase of August 2015 and want to start making kitless pens.

M12x.8x2 Tap, Intermediate, With TiN
M12x.8x2 Die, With TiN

M14x.8x2 Tap, Intermediate, With TiN
M14x.8x2 Die, With TiN

I pretty much need everything else if anyone is looking to sell or trade anything no longer needed.

Also I really appreciate any advice on what and where to acquire the stuff I need.

Larry
 
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larrystephens

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Dannv

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With the double lead threads, you'll probably need to make your own mandrels. Barry's are single start and the other's I've seen are triple start.
 

Alchemist

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Aug 13, 2020
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548
Location
Central Valley, California
I have had the taps and dies since the group purchase of August 2015 and want to start making kitless pens.

M12x.8x2 Tap, Intermediate, With TiN
M12x.8x2 Die, With TiN

M14x.8x2 Tap, Intermediate, With TiN
M14x.8x2 Die, With TiN

I pretty much need everything else if anyone is looking to sell or trade anything no longer needed.

Also I really appreciate any advice on what and where to acquire the stuff I need.

Larry
Hey Larry,

Couple of things you will also need are (if you don't have them already) is a die holder for the tailstock, proper drill bit sizes for the taps, a collet chuck for your head stock. If you don't have a set yet… a hundred drillbit set from harbor freight works just fine.

Turnerswarehouse.com has a lot of the stuff you need. You can get a collet chuck and tap/die holder on Amazon. Check out the podcast "As the Pen Turns".

Any other questions just message me!
Have fun!
 

larrystephens

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Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
323
Location
Arlington, Texas, USA.
Hey Larry,

Couple of things you will also need are (if you don't have them already) is a die holder for the tailstock, proper drill bit sizes for the taps, a collet chuck for your head stock. If you don't have a set yet… a hundred drillbit set from harbor freight works just fine.

Turnerswarehouse.com has a lot of the stuff you need. You can get a collet chuck and tap/die holder on Amazon. Check out the podcast "As the Pen Turns".

Any other questions just message me!
Have fun!
Can I use this chuck, or do I need a collet chuck, would there be a downside to using this chuck?

Also, when making my own mandrels, what is the best material to use, I'm afraid to use metals because I might screw up my dies
 

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Dannv

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Sparks
Can I use this chuck, or do I need a collet chuck, would there be a downside to using this chuck?

Also, when making my own mandrels, what is the best material to use, I'm afraid to use metals because I might screw up my dies
I purchased the PSI collet set and find it's much easier than the drilling jaws. You do have to turn your blanks round, though.

I made one today out of a piece of brass rod. Aluminum will work, too. I used a 7x14 mini lathe for the metal work and then used my die to cut the threads. If the die is HSS, it should cut brass or aluminum fine. Lubricate things to make it easier.
 

guitarchitect

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Toronto
Can I use this chuck, or do I need a collet chuck, would there be a downside to using this chuck?

Also, when making my own mandrels, what is the best material to use, I'm afraid to use metals because I might screw up my dies
you could certainly try!

I started off with a lot less tools than most people do because I had a bit of know-how around the shop. You really don't need specialized stuff, you just need to be picky about your technique if you want things to be straight. I made quite a few crooked pens at first!
As others said - you'll need drill bits. Figure out the pilot holes you need for the holes you have to tap and make sure you have them. For metric taps the thread size is the diameter minus the pitch - for M12x0.8 that's 11.2, for M14x0.8 that's 13.2mm. Anything that gets you to that dimension or about 0.15mm larger is fine (11.2-11.35, 13.2-13.35 - for M13 for example I bore with a 31/64" bit). For a section you can get an M10x1 tap and die set off amazon to start. Victor is good for bits, McMaster Carr too. You'll also need taps for the section you want to put in the pen - for the M14 it's probably a Jowo #6, which requires a 7.5x0.5mm tap. You'll need an I, N and R bit to drill out the section, and an L bit for the back side to give the converter room to wiggle.

For mandrels - Delrin/Acetal, off amazon. I think my first mandrels were 5/8" delrin. Turns easily on a wood lathe.

For a die holder, use the appropriate sized forstner bit if you have one, in a block of hard wood. use wood that leaves you about 1/4" on the top and bottom around the die. drill and tap for the divots on the die and pin the die in place with whatever screws you can tap for - for me it was pan-head wood screws. now you've got a die holder! to use it, you put open up your tailstock-mounted jacobs chuck (leave the tailstock unlocked) and put the back of the die holder against the face of the chuck. this ensures it's perpendicular to the work. rotate the headstock and keep it pressed against the tenon, and you'll be cutting threads! i put a through-hole in the wood so that I could thread my first mandrels with it. for threading the mandrel i just took the jacobs out and extended the tailstock quill. the face of the quill keeps the die perpendicular enough.

for a tap holder, just chuck your M12, M14, and M10 in the jacobs. this is how I still tap everything except for sections. my section tap is bent, so I use it in a general brand tap wrench with a spring-loaded tap follower. this lets the tap keep itself centered in its pilot hole. I like this kind of tap wrench because it doesn't require the tap to have a divot - none of my jowo/bock taps have divots so i can't use them in the really cheap tap wrenches.

and i think that's about it. you can upgrade to sliding die and tap holders as you grow your craft, but starting out it's not necessary. I would strongly recommend the PSI or Beall collet chuck with a collet set but it's not critical... but what it will give you that a jawed chuck won't is concentricity, and while you're learning that's one of the most important variables to eliminate... you want your parts to be held true no matter which way you flip them, so that any screwups can be identified as the simple things to address (better technique) rather than potentially shoddy work-holding.

if you aren't considering it, strongly consider attending the MPG virtual symposium. it was @mark james kitless tutorial that started me down the rabbit hole in 2021!
 

guitarchitect

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Sep 8, 2020
Messages
60
Location
Toronto
Oops! we're shouting out the wrong guy, it was Robert Nelson @RNelson - mark did a terrific wood segmenting tutorial though!
It looks like he isn't presenting at the MPG this year unfortunately!
 

Pierre---

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Jun 10, 2012
Messages
410
Location
France
If I may, just try to make one pen with whatever tools you have. You will get answers to most of your questions.
 

larrystephens

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
323
Location
Arlington, Texas, USA.
you could certainly try!

I started off with a lot less tools than most people do because I had a bit of know-how around the shop. You really don't need specialized stuff, you just need to be picky about your technique if you want things to be straight. I made quite a few crooked pens at first!
As others said - you'll need drill bits. Figure out the pilot holes you need for the holes you have to tap and make sure you have them. For metric taps the thread size is the diameter minus the pitch - for M12x0.8 that's 11.2, for M14x0.8 that's 13.2mm. Anything that gets you to that dimension or about 0.15mm larger is fine (11.2-11.35, 13.2-13.35 - for M13 for example I bore with a 31/64" bit). For a section you can get an M10x1 tap and die set off amazon to start. Victor is good for bits, McMaster Carr too. You'll also need taps for the section you want to put in the pen - for the M14 it's probably a Jowo #6, which requires a 7.5x0.5mm tap. You'll need an I, N and R bit to drill out the section, and an L bit for the back side to give the converter room to wiggle.

For mandrels - Delrin/Acetal, off amazon. I think my first mandrels were 5/8" delrin. Turns easily on a wood lathe.

For a die holder, use the appropriate sized forstner bit if you have one, in a block of hard wood. use wood that leaves you about 1/4" on the top and bottom around the die. drill and tap for the divots on the die and pin the die in place with whatever screws you can tap for - for me it was pan-head wood screws. now you've got a die holder! to use it, you put open up your tailstock-mounted jacobs chuck (leave the tailstock unlocked) and put the back of the die holder against the face of the chuck. this ensures it's perpendicular to the work. rotate the headstock and keep it pressed against the tenon, and you'll be cutting threads! i put a through-hole in the wood so that I could thread my first mandrels with it. for threading the mandrel i just took the jacobs out and extended the tailstock quill. the face of the quill keeps the die perpendicular enough.

for a tap holder, just chuck your M12, M14, and M10 in the jacobs. this is how I still tap everything except for sections. my section tap is bent, so I use it in a general brand tap wrench with a spring-loaded tap follower. this lets the tap keep itself centered in its pilot hole. I like this kind of tap wrench because it doesn't require the tap to have a divot - none of my jowo/bock taps have divots so i can't use them in the really cheap tap wrenches.

and i think that's about it. you can upgrade to sliding die and tap holders as you grow your craft, but starting out it's not necessary. I would strongly recommend the PSI or Beall collet chuck with a collet set but it's not critical... but what it will give you that a jawed chuck won't is concentricity, and while you're learning that's one of the most important variables to eliminate... you want your parts to be held true no matter which way you flip them, so that any screwups can be identified as the simple things to address (better technique) rather than potentially shoddy work-holding.

if you aren't considering it, strongly consider attending the MPG virtual symposium. it was @mark james kitless tutorial that started me down the rabbit hole in 2021!
Thanks again for all your help with this write up, if I can ask a couple of questions?

Should I use the M14 for the cap to body connection and the M12 to make the connection between the section and the body, or should I get an M10 single start for that connection?

Is the M12 then used for a smaller pen?

I hope I am using the correct terminology in this question.
 

Dannv

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2022
Messages
120
Location
Sparks
Thanks again for all your help with this write up, if I can ask a couple of questions?

Should I use the M14 for the cap to body connection and the M12 to make the connection between the section and the body, or should I get an M10 single start for that connection?

Is the M12 then used for a smaller pen?

I hope I am using the correct terminology in this question.
I use an M14 0.8 TLD for the cap/body and an m11 0.7 for the section/body. I've still had one resin that wouldn't thread both inside and outside there. I wouldn't want to try 14 and 12.
 

guitarchitect

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
Messages
60
Location
Toronto
Thanks again for all your help with this write up, if I can ask a couple of questions?

Should I use the M14 for the cap to body connection and the M12 to make the connection between the section and the body, or should I get an M10 single start for that connection?

Is the M12 then used for a smaller pen?

I hope I am using the correct terminology in this question.
Typically you'd use triple starts for the cap and a standard single m10 (for M13) or m10/m11 (m14) for the section. I use m10*1 but some use m10*0.75
 
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