Advice for Home Generator Systems

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
12,720
Location
Medina, Ohio
I will be doing my own research to understand what I expect will be very good advice from IAP, but any hints to jumpstart me would be appreciated.

Here is my situation:

My wife and I have lived at our current house for 22 years. For 20 years we never had any power outages due to trees/limbs on our (utility company responsible) driveway. In the past 2 years, we have had 4 power outages.

The driveway is about 120 yards long, winds through a section of very tall trees; we suspect downed power lines will be more frequent in the future.

Our house is way too large for only my wife and I, so there is a high likelihood we will not be here within 5-10 years. My wife does not actually share that opinion as she loves the house. She also is being forced to resign/retire from work and will sign papers on Monday - so we both will be retired. That is actually a good thing as her parents are both 93 and rely on our assistance to keep them in their house.

We have a fuel oil boiler for baseboard water heat, when the power goes out we lose heat, lighting, water. There is no gas line on the property.

We have ruled out clear-cutting the front property of all potential trees. And running underground electricity lines through the woods. I am pretty sure even a high-end generator system would be much less expensive than those options, and would keep the property more attractive.

So, how to keep the fuel oil boiler working, hot water tank, some lighting, a few outlets for refrigerator, freezer. (I won't suggest a separate power plant for my shop :cool:).

In my opinion, a good system while more expensive would be a benefit for a future house sale, but maybe a basic unit would suffice.

I am not an electrician - so this is a true Newbie on this end.

Thanks Family!
 
Last edited:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

gtriever

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
1,135
Location
Paducah, Kentucky
My only experience with "large" generators is in a Public Safety setting, so take this for what it's worth : We had a propane fueled generator and had delivery issues when the weather got really nasty (think major ice storm). When it came time to replace it, we decided to install a diesel system. In a worst case scenario, you can even refuel it with 5-gallon cans if trucks aren't available.
 

BRobbins629

Passed Away Dec 28, 2021
In Memoriam
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
4,037
Location
Richmond, VA, USA.
We too have a lot of power outages. The thing that stops me from getting a generator is the noise factor. The house accross the street has a natural gas Generac which is very noisy. There are some enclosures available that claim to greatly reduce the noise, so if you want to sleep while keeping warm I suggest making that part of the search.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
797
Location
Fuquay Varina, NC
So I headed down this path a little over a year ago... Hurricane was supposedly heading to NC, I was (of course) out of town for work, and my wife calls me saying that we have 300+ ounces of breast milk in the freezer for our baby girl that will not thaw under ANY circumstances and what was I going to do about it.. No pressure right?

Step 1: How many watts do you need? That's going to drive every other decision. Figure up the watts needed for your list of must haves. Now you know what size generator you need.

For me that part was easy, the only generator available within 200 miles was a fairly large 7500 watt one. Ok I'll take it!

I figured up I could run both of the fridges, power one room of the house (lights, outlets, etc) the microwave, and my mini split out in the garage. That mini split would provide enough heat/air to at least keep the downstairs of my house liveable while we waited for power, or we'd just hang out in the garage/shop.

To do that I put in a transfer switch and ran a plug through the wall to the outside where the generator could run without being too annoying to those of us comfortably inside.

Risks of this setup are: running out of gas, having someone steal your generator.

I've got maybe $1800 total in it and that's mostly because the generator price was a bit inflated from the approaching hurricane and lack of availability.

For as little as you've lost power, you may want to consider something like that vs a larger whole house setup. A bonus of having spent the money is that as a result we haven't lost power in 2 years! ;)
 

monophoto

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
2,542
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY
Mark


I've been struggling with this problem for a number of years, and like you, my wife and I don't always agree on what the right answer is.

We have natural gas piped to the house for space heating, water heating, and a gas range. Loss of electric power means that we also lose our furnace and water heater because they need electricity for their controls. Fortunately, we have a gas fireplace that will provide enough heat to keep the house from freezing up (which is a major concern - we have serious winters).

But the real kicker for us is that our house is at the bottom of a hill, so our plumbing system includes a 'grinder pump' - lose power, and we have to start counting the number of times we flush the toilet.

My evaluation has led to several conclusions:
1. A gasoline-powered generator that has to be set up when needed doesn't make sense. In the event of a real, prolonged power outage, nearby gas stations probably also would not have power, so it would be difficult to impossible to find a supply of gasoline. So if we do a generator, it will be a permanent installation with a natural-gas engine and with an automatic transfer switch. I know that generators are available that can use propane, but I'm not aware of any that use heating oil.
2. I'm an engineer with many years of experience in planning power systems - both at grid level and in industrial applications. Based on that experience, I know that the sizing of an emergency generator is usually related more to the inrush of the loads that must be served than it is to the total demand of the loads. That is, the generator must be sized to support starting of the largest motor in the home. In our case, that's the grinder pump. The general rule of thumb is that the generator rating in kw should be 5-6 times the horsepower rating of that largest motor. On that basis, the smallest generator that makes sense for us is 5kW.
3. By code (and for safety reasons), a generator must be located outside the home, and its exhaust must be 10' away from any windows and from air intakes for furnaces. I'm pretty sure my wife would not be happy with a generator right outside our bedroom (they are relatively quiet, but not silent). The ideal generator location is close to the electrical service panel. And in most jurisdictions, there are likely to be limits on the minimum distance between a generator installation and the property line. These constraints present us with some challenges, but they are surmountable (but would increase the installation cost).
4. My conclusions make sense for us, but I suspect that they would be different if we still had young children in our home.
5. The cost of the generator would be $3500-4000, and installation would be an additional $1000-1500. Also, we have a lawn mower, snow blower, and leaf blower, so a generator would be one more internal combustion engine that requires routine maintenance.

Our house is in a residential subdivision in a rural area about 5 miles away from the distribution substation, and both the local distribution and the house drop are underground. However, the feeder from the substation is overhead, and continues on through many miles of farm land. Our exposure to local interruptions is based almost entirely on the weather exposure of that overhead feeder. In addition, however, we also experience very occasional grid level events (ie, events originating behind that distribution substation). We typically experience 5-6 interruptions per year; most are very brief and the only negative consequence is that we may have to wait 15 minutes or so for the TV box to reboot. In the 15 years we have been in our home, we have had two prolonged outages where a generator would have been useful - one that lasted overnight, and one that lasted two days. Having said that, I have to also note that the one prolonged outage was 12 years ago, and since then the local utility has reinforced their distribution service in our area. So there has been improvement in both the frequency and duration of interruptions.

So my bottom line is that cost of installing an emergency generator for our home is not justifiable. Obviously, that is a discussion that my wife and I are still having. Several of our neighbors have put in generators, and they are happy with the result.
 
Last edited:

Edgar

New Member Advocate
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
6,890
Location
Alvin, TX 77511
Like most things, it's a cost-benefit trade off with special consideration given to specific needs (like health) and fuel source availability.

Even though I live in a target-rich zone for hurricanes, we have only had 2 prolonged power outages in the last 10 years. We lost power for 4 days after Hurricane Ike and for 1 day a few years later when an 18-wheeler, traveling illegally on our county road, snagged a TV cable line and snapped a power pole. (I don't even count the occasional 1-3 hour power loss due to a transformer circuit breaker trip - those are just minor inconveniences as far as I'm concerned.)

We have natural gas, so even during a power outage, we still have heat, hot water, and stove.

I bought a 5KW gasoline-powered generator from Home Depot during the Ike outage. It's adequate to power our water well, refrigerator & freezer, lights, fans & microwave. I also bought 2 window A/C units for our bedrooms so we could sleep in relative comfort. Once power was restored, I moved those window units to my shop & I can easily move them back to the house when & if needed again.

Very few people in my area have whole home Generac type systems. They are extremely convenient, but it's difficult for most people in this area to justify the expense.
 
Last edited:

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
This is not directly along the lines that you asked but is a help.

• Back in 2004 in the summer in Japan, I changed out all of our incandescent lights in our two story house to the fluorescent lightbulb shaped bulbs at about $10 each. $10 X 24= $240. My summer Electric bill dropped in July and August more than half. Cooling the heat from incandescent bulbs AND the fact that the fluorescent bulbs used 1/10th the electricity did it.

• In 2005, I was home (USA) for a year (beginning at the end of July that year) and did the same thing then. Even though we have been home since early 2011, My electricity for my USA home has not yet reached what it was for July of 2005. (Our middle daughter was living in our home at the time.)
(I have since upgraded to LED bulbs and do not have that slow-ON for fluorescent in cold weather.)

• After watching some Alaska-live-out-in-the-wilderness TV shows, I am aware of items/appliances that use much less electricity.

• While in Japan, I knew from experience that their appliances were every bit as good as USA made things and used considerably less electricity.

I am not a green tree hugger, but I hate wasted money on excessive gasoline, gas and electricity. There are lots of things that can cut down on the use.

THE POINT: With only a bit of extra planning, efficiency planning with your Home Generator can cut costs without cutting out cutting practical usage, and make it more enticing if you wanted to sell in the future.

Just my opinion. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Herb G

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
1,461
Location
Southern Maryland
Take it FWIW, but I've been doing commercial & industrial electrical work for over 35 years now.
If you have natural gas available, that's the only way to go.
If not, a large ( 500 gallon ) propane makes an acceptable substitute.
Get a Generac whole house standby generator & have it professionally installed.

Make sure the installer is fully licensed, bonded, and insured.
Have the propane tank installed before the generator so it's already plumbed in & ready to go once the generator is set & hooked up.

A whole house Generac standby generator will run you about $5K to $8K, depending on the size. I have no idea what a propane tank will run you.

Generac's are the most dependable, least break down-able gen sets on the market today.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
3,032
Location
Wolf Creek Montana
Like many of you know, I live completely off the grid. The closest power line is 8 miles away. I don't know your budget Mark, but here's my back up generator set up. And first off I would contact an off grid specialist as they can give you all kinds of options.
My back up generator is a 10kw diesel, the brand is Perkins. It's fully self contained and uses around 1gl to fully charge my batteries which takes just at 4 hours. I use just under 100gls per year. Montana doesn't get a lot of sunshine during the winter months so the solar panels really don't help.
My electricity is stored in Hupp solar batteries. I have twelve of them (24v system) and they come in their own metal case and weigh in at around 200lbs each battery. On a normal charge I can get 36 hours of electricity. I have all the modern appliances that most homeowners have except, I don't have a microwave or electric coffee pot, way too much amperage draw. An electrician could easily set up a system like this that would allow you to store your electricity in the batteries so that when you needed the power you'd have it. If your power goes out for an extended period of time then you just run the back up generator, charge the batteries and your good to go. Now the expense part. The generator cost will be in the neighborhood of $10,000.00. The batteries run, for all 12, around $7,000.00+ but these are the expensive ones that you'll never have to replace in your lifetime. There are less expensive batteries on the market that you can check out. The inverter and other parts aren't that expensive but I'm thinking you could get a very reliable system that would run everything in your house, and I mean everything, for probably around $25,000.00 or less. I know, sticker shock, but you'd never be without power again. The system I have includes solar panels and some other extras but I've only had one incident with my system and it was easily fixed. The other nice thing about it is that it's a value adder to your home value and if you ever decide to leave, you can pack it up and take it with you. And you might be eligible for federal or state alternative energy credits. I did get some back on my taxes but can't remember how much. As for noise, I have an exhaust system that is very quiet and can hardly be heard, I keep the generator in an insulated shed.
Almost forgot. I have three non-electric propane heaters for the second bedroom, laundry room and my shop. I also have an on-demand hot water system so no water heater. My propane stove uses batteries to ignite the gas for the stove, no matches needed. I heat the main part of the cabin with wood that I get off my own property. I use just at 400 gallons a year of propane.
 
Last edited:

Lucky2

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,502
Location
New Brunswick/ Canada
Mark, I am pleased that you asked this question, when you did. I'll be following the replies to it closely. I just bought a new home, and because of power outages I am installing a generator. I have all of the equipment installed, now I have to purchase the generator.

Len
 

jeff

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,970
Location
Westlake, OH, USA.
Mark

I have a 4-breaker transfer switch wired to supply critical circuits, and a 2KW Honda inverter generator. The transfer switch is in the basement next to the main panel, and the generator inlet is in the garage and feeds the transfer panel through underground conduit. Everything is installed per code. The circuits supplied by the generator include the fridge, gas furnace, various lights, and a few outlets. I have a 2-1/2 gallon external fuel tank (the EU2000i uses a suction fuel system), and I can run it for 24 hours on a tank at moderate load. The only time I ran it that long was during hurricane Sandy, when the power was out for 4 days. There is a propane conversion available for that generator (and most any gas generator...)

This setup doesn't provide the luxury of an automated whole-house system, but it keeps the heat on, the beer cold, and the phones charged. I have to be a bit careful with the load, so I generally manually cycle the furnace while everything else is off. I can get the generator connected and everything configured in about 5 minutes. Given the low frequency of power failures lasting more than a couple hours, it's a good balance of cost versus effort.

Edit: Total cost, about $1500 for the generator & electrical components. I did the work myself.
 
Last edited:

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
12,720
Location
Medina, Ohio
Mark, I am pleased that you asked this question, when you did. I'll be following the replies to it closely. I just bought a new home, and because of power outages I am installing a generator. I have all of the equipment installed, now I have to purchase the generator.

Len

I was very confident that there would be a wealth of knowledge for me to consider. I have a good head start to explore what I need.

Hope this is helpful for you to consider also.

Be well Len
 

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
3,215
Location
Bristow, IN
I ended up going with 6800watt Generac portable propane in Houston, for which the power came back on as I turned on our street. Why that one? It was the largest propane portable available.

Why propane? Power is not required for a propane tank fill, I keep propane tanks for the grills and the camper, propane doesn't go bad in storage so I have 6 or 8 tanks when I have them all together. Some 20 pound and some 30 pound, always watching for larger to go on sale.

Expectation is 2-5 days of power outage. Houston folks with gas generators indicate the issue was having to drive 3+ hours to find a gas station with power and gas.

They now have load monitoring transfer switches for a reasonable price that will prevent multiple load from trying to draw start-up power at the same time.

When done, I will have about $1200 in it all.

Oh, and, have moved 4 times in 8 years: a whole house generator falls into the category of not adding value to your home (people will not pay $7000 more for a home with a $7000 generator) but it will make a home more likely to sell compared to one of the same value with no generator (if someone likes two homes equally, both valued at $300,000 they will be more likely to buy the one with a generator than the one that doesn't have one)

All my info I moot if your goal is to be able to live without power.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

JRK

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
81
Location
Bridgeton, Missouri
A number of years ago I grew tired of numerous power failures in my area.

Well around that time there was a power failure where I thought the power would be off for an extended period. I stopped by Home Depot on the way to work and bought a generator. The only model they had left was the largest they sold at the time. It is about 7500 watt model, and has a 5 gallon gas tank.

I didn't get a chance to use it that time, the power was restored by the time I got home from work that day... Go figure. lol

My parents got back from a camping trip soon after and their power was off, so I took it over to them and they used it for about a week.

The first time I used it, I just ran extension cords through a basement window. I disconnected the furnace from the house wiring and connected the furnace to the generator. It was cold at that time.

Since then, I had an electrician put in 200 amp service, at that time he also added a manual transfer switch. With this setup, I can run 6 circuits from the generator. The furnace and refrigerator are two of them and there was enough left for lights in most of the house -- also the burglar alarm. No A/C though. There is a plug outside the house where I plug in the generator. Once the generator is connected and running, all I need to do is to switch the six circuits on the transfer switch to the generator.

Because of the transfer switch it won't back feed the power into the external power lines.

I have needed it a few times since I bought it. It takes about 1/2 and hour to get it out hooked up, fueled, connected, and running. It goes through about 10 gallons of gas in a 24 hour period. So it seems I spend a lot of time getting gas for it.

It seems the power has become more reliable so I don't need it too much any more.

Jerry
 

JRK

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2019
Messages
81
Location
Bridgeton, Missouri
Forgot to add...

I can't really tell how much it cost. I think the generator was about $600. I have no idea the transfer switch. It was done at the same time I had other electrical work done.

I would like the convenience of a system that starts up and switches to generator automagically. But considering the number of times that I need the generator, I don't think it is worth the extra cost.

The thing is expensive to run on gasoline, so I am wondering how expensive those natural gas units are to run.

We have a natural gas generator at work, and it has what looks like a V-6 car engine.

Jerry
 
Top Bottom