60 degree live center getting hot

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mick

mick

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LOML, got me 60 deg. heavy duty live center from LMS for Christmas. I finally got into the shop to try it out and it gets very hot....almost too hot to touch. For those of you who use one, is this normal?
 
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Might want to check the RPM rating for it. I bought a pretty heavy duty one from Grizzly, only to find out it was rated to about 1800 RPM. It was much more stout and had tighter tolerances than my original Jet part. It also makes more noise than the original part (particularly as the speeds increase). In short, it was designed for use on a metal lathe, at lower RPM's. I still use it for my initial phases of turning things down at lower RPM's, but switch back to my original live center for the speedy stuff that will take more than a few moments.
 
My Grizzly 60 degree doesn't get hot or give problems at top speed. I suspect a bad center or it might just need lubricating. Try flushing it out with carburetor cleaner then lubing with a high quality product like Break-Free.
 
It happened to my LMS live center too. Not as hot but produced high pitched squeeling, after applying some motor oil (best I can get/find in the garage at the moment [:D]) it worked fine.
 
My 60 degree center from PSI gets warm but not as warm as you are describing. I agree---you probably need to check the rpm rating on it and find out if you are overloading it. Mine only gets warm when I rev it up for finishing.
 
Most live centers for metal machines. like from LMS, are usually only rated for up to 2500 rpm. They should work for higher than that for short spurts, but not for long periods.
 
I just looked at the LMS website for the #2MT HD Live Center and it stated 5000 as the max RPM. I have two of them and was concerned over the heat at first but oddly enough...they didn't seem to get as hot after using a while. Maybe it was just me.
 
I looked at the LMS site and did not find information for the standard duty LC (#1189) that I and most folks have. So I wrote them an email and asked about RPM limits and other issues that might be responsible for this overheating epidemic we seem tom be having. Sent the inquiry Friday night, so it may be another day or two before a response id received. Will report any interesting findings.
 
LMS never did respond to my email so I finally had to call them. According to the guy I talked to the standard duty LC #1189 is rated for 3000 RPMs. A lot of these mini lathes will approach 4000 RPMs at the high end and that is probably way too fast for continuous use. I'm guessing that five minutes at that speed for a single blank should not be a problem; but I would avoid running your live center for extended periods of time at the higher speed.

BTW, I think those bearings need to be lubricated with something other than motor oil for a long life. I would open up those bearings and pack them with a good quality bearing grease. If you are going to use a liquid lubricant, It would probably be necessary to lube on a regular basis and not just once a year.
 
I agree with Pipes. I have used the cheap one from LMS for years, and still good. I use the same model in my metal lathe. Heavy duty centers are for HEAVY pieces.
 
Originally posted by mick
<br />LOML, got me 60 deg. heavy duty live center from LMS for Christmas. I finally got into the shop to try it out and it gets very hot....almost too hot to touch. For those of you who use one, is this normal?
Click to expand...

Kind of the same subject! Anyone have an issue with the live center tip being eaten. It seems I can set the live center in the madrel end, tighten till light finger pressure can't stop it spinning, but after a few minutes the ceter stops spinning and I need to crank it in a touch to reseat. I quess its when the center stops spinning is when it acts like a dead center and grooves the center tip.

JW
 
Originally posted by Pipes
<br />I bought mine from them and had to send it back for the NON heavy duty model !! guys here advised that and it was true ! The heavy duty is for a metal lathe NOT a wood lathe ! p[ipes[:D]
Click to expand...

Guy: Do you remember which one you got? There are two LCs that are "NOT" identified as HD. One is the 2871 which they call a medium duty unit and the 1189 which has no "duty" designation.
 
Originally posted by mick
<br />I've used some silicone lub on the offending live center and I'll left you know if it helped!
Click to expand...

Hey Mick: Any update on the situation with your live center?? Were you able to relube the live center and eliminate the overheating problem?
 
Originally posted by jimwill48
<br />
Originally posted by mick
<br />LOML, got me 60 deg. heavy duty live center from LMS for Christmas. I finally got into the shop to try it out and it gets very hot....almost too hot to touch. For those of you who use one, is this normal?
Click to expand...

Kind of the same subject! Anyone have an issue with the live center tip being eaten. It seems I can set the live center in the mandrel end, tighten till light finger pressure can't stop it spinning, but after a few minutes the center stops spinning and I need to crank it in a touch to reseat. I quess its when the center stops spinning is when it acts like a dead center and grooves the center tip.
Click to expand...

JW: You didn't say whether you have a 30° live(standard with most all wood lathes) or if you have an after market 60° live center. The problem you mention is fairly common with the 30° centers that come with the lathe. That's why folks recommend the purchase of a special
live center for turning pens on a steel mandrel.

If you already have a 60° live center, the following is something I wrote for another thread and may be of help to you.


Originally posted by Randy
<br />

Jon: Be careful with that HD model when it arrives. Pipes had one a while ago and had to return it. Problem was it was so stiff.....hard to turn.....that no matter how much pressure he applied with the tailstock, he could not get the pen mandrel to "drive" the LC. The mandrel just spun at the LC tip without the LC actually rotating itself......or at least that is what I understood to be the problem. I had a similar difficulty with my 1189 and assumed the grease was packed too thick in the bearing so soaked it in kerosene for about a half hour. Then I put it on the lathe and ran it continuously for about a half hour to warm up the grease, mix in whatever kerosene was able to penetrate into the bearing and hopefully thin out the grease a little. That was the theory, anyway. After that little exercise I never had any more trouble with the center being stiff.

Another thing folks need to check out if the LC won't spin is the possibility of a defective mandrel. If the dimple on the end of your mandrel does not have the proper configuration.....a 60° cone-shaped hole with a small clearance hole at the bottom(tip).....the LC may contact the mandrel on the point rather than on the shoulders of the center. If such should be the case, there will not be enough friction between the mandrel and the live center to spin it and there may be damage caused to the point of the LC. Some very knowledgeable people have recommended using a file to remove the very end of the point of the live center. This is probably a good idea; but really won't help much if the mandrel dimple is not drilled properly.

It is not real easy to check out the dimple. You will need some strong illumination and probably a decent magnifying glass glass. I would imagine defective mandrels are not too common; but there have been a couple of reports of the problem.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry about that its a 60 degree Center. I have 2 of the LMS ones (I also have a small metal lathe) but have not used them for wood. The one that has the tip damaged is the one from Penn State. I am also using a Penn State Maxi Madrel and a standard one from Woodcraft. In the attached article it talked about the center being stiff and I quess that could be an issue as my shop is in the low to mid 50's this time of year and the grease could be stiff, think this weekend I might try soaking it out and relubing with some BreakFree.

JW
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />
Originally posted by jimwill48
<br />
Originally posted by mick
<br />LOML, got me 60 deg. heavy duty live center from LMS for Christmas. I finally got into the shop to try it out and it gets very hot....almost too hot to touch. For those of you who use one, is this normal?
Click to expand...

Kind of the same subject! Anyone have an issue with the live center tip being eaten. It seems I can set the live center in the mandrel end, tighten till light finger pressure can't stop it spinning, but after a few minutes the center stops spinning and I need to crank it in a touch to reseat. I quess its when the center stops spinning is when it acts like a dead center and grooves the center tip.
Click to expand...

JW: You didn't say whether you have a 30° live(standard with most all wood lathes) or if you have an after market 60° live center. The problem you mention is fairly common with the 30° centers that come with the lathe. That's why folks recommend the purchase of a special
live center for turning pens on a steel mandrel.

If you already have a 60° live center, the following is something I wrote for another thread and may be of help to you.


Originally posted by Randy
<br />

Jon: Be careful with that HD model when it arrives. Pipes had one a while ago and had to return it. Problem was it was so stiff.....hard to turn.....that no matter how much pressure he applied with the tailstock, he could not get the pen mandrel to "drive" the LC. The mandrel just spun at the LC tip without the LC actually rotating itself......or at least that is what I understood to be the problem. I had a similar difficulty with my 1189 and assumed the grease was packed too thick in the bearing so soaked it in kerosene for about a half hour. Then I put it on the lathe and ran it continuously for about a half hour to warm up the grease, mix in whatever kerosene was able to penetrate into the bearing and hopefully thin out the grease a little. That was the theory, anyway. After that little exercise I never had any more trouble with the center being stiff.

Another thing folks need to check out if the LC won't spin is the possibility of a defective mandrel. If the dimple on the end of your mandrel does not have the proper configuration.....a 60° cone-shaped hole with a small clearance hole at the bottom(tip).....the LC may contact the mandrel on the point rather than on the shoulders of the center. If such should be the case, there will not be enough friction between the mandrel and the live center to spin it and there may be damage caused to the point of the LC. Some very knowledgeable people have recommended using a file to remove the very end of the point of the live center. This is probably a good idea; but really won't help much if the mandrel dimple is not drilled properly.

It is not real easy to check out the dimple. You will need some strong illumination and probably a decent magnifying glass glass. I would imagine defective mandrels are not too common; but there have been a couple of reports of the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by jimwill48
<br />Sorry about that its a 60 degree Center. I have 2 of the LMS ones (I also have a small metal lathe) but have not used them for wood. The one that has the tip damaged is the one from Penn State. I am also using a Penn State Maxi Madrel and a standard one from Woodcraft. In the attached article it talked about the center being stiff and I quess that could be an issue as my shop is in the low to mid 50's this time of year and the grease could be stiff, think this weekend I might try soaking it out and relubing with some BreakFree.

JW
Click to expand...

Another thing you could try before going to too much trouble is hitting the LC with a hair dryer for a few minutes and getting it good and warm.....maybe even hot. If that makes it easier to spin then put it on the lathe and run it for 15 minutes or so at a little under max speed. Maybe all it needs is just a short "break-in" period??

I did that with mine; but forgot to mention it in the earlier post.
 
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