Dan_F
Member
In another thread, George said he has this lathe, but hasn't had a chance to use it much. Just wondering if anyone else out there has it and could give a brief review. Thanks,
Dan
Dan
Anyone else have the Grizzly 9 x 19 metal lathe?
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randyrls
Member
Dan; I am only a neebie machinist. I use my lathe to make pens and small parts.
The 9x19 or 9x20 (same size) lathes are sold by many suppliers (HF, Grizzly, Cummins, and a host of others). The lathes are mostly identical. The differences are in the included accessories.
The sizes are 9"=swing over bed; 19 or 20=distance between centers. The difference is in whether dead centers or live centers are used in the measurement.
The metal lathe is an entirely different mind set from wood lathes. Read that line again because it is important! The skill sets for wood and metal lathes are not the same.
Metal lathes in general are designed to hold a cutting tool rigidly and move it in precise amounts and directions down to .0005" while remaining rigid. If you want to use turning tools with the metal lathe, you will have to create a mount and toolpost. These can be purchased but can be made easily.
The spindle nose on a 9x20 is threaded 39 x 4 mm with an MT3 taper. You will need an MT3 to MT2 adapter sleeve to mount a pen mandrel. A bare mandrel can be mounted in a 3 jaw chuck or collet for better accuracy. Chucks for wood lathes will not fit on the 9x20 unless you fab an adapter. Adapters are not commonly available but one can be made on the 9x20.
The metal lathe top speed is 2000 RPM, but goes down to about 130 RPM. Speeds are 130, 300, 400, 600, 1000, and 2000 RPM
The tail stock is an MT2 taper. The tail stock does not have a camlock. The lockdown is a nut on the tail stock. It is possible to make a camlock.
Grizzly has this for sale as the G4000. The manual is available as a PDF file and easy to read.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000
More info on the 9x20 can be had on these sites:
http://bedair.org/9x20.html
http://www.akpilot.net/Lathe Links.html
7x lathe and general information:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Introduction/introduction.htm
There is a very active "9x20Lathe" group on YAHOO with TONS of information about the 9x20 lathes.
Opinions:
1. You can make pens on a metal lathe, but if you just want to make pens, get a wood lathe.
2. A smaller 7x14 will be big enough for pens, and has variable speed not available on the 9x size.
hilltopper46
Member
Good review, Randy.
One additional comment about the 9x20 lathes. This applies to Grizzly, Harbor Freight, and others. This lathe does not have a reverser in it that allows you to make left hand threads. The 7xXX (XX=10, 12, 14 you pick) makes LH threads.
This may be a bigger deal than you think, because if you every want to make your own screw for a tailstock ram (I did) you will want to make LH threads.
It might help those of us who have a metal lathe advise you better if we know what you were thinking about doing with it.
One additional comment about the 9x20 lathes. This applies to Grizzly, Harbor Freight, and others. This lathe does not have a reverser in it that allows you to make left hand threads. The 7xXX (XX=10, 12, 14 you pick) makes LH threads.
This may be a bigger deal than you think, because if you every want to make your own screw for a tailstock ram (I did) you will want to make LH threads.
It might help those of us who have a metal lathe advise you better if we know what you were thinking about doing with it.
Dan_F
Member
I already have a wood lathe, I want a metal lathe in order to cut my own multi start threads, and make custom mandrels for turning kitless, closed end pens fountain pens that don't use tubes. Probably will need to turn center bands and other such small parts, maybe custom bushings too. Precision boring would be another use. I'm sure I will find other uses for it, but those are the priorities. I understand that Truestone blanks can be turned down rapidly with a metal lathe as well. At this point, left handed threading isn't an issue.
My shop is in the basement, or I would probably just go for the Grizz 12 X 36, but at over 1000 pounds, I can't see getting it down the stairs. The G 4000 has a single quick change gear box, whereas the 4003 has 2, and most of the other small, non-9 x 20's require manual gear changes. I don't really know much about them, but got a little advice from a fellow turner yesterday who has a 12 x 36.
The discouraging thing about the 9 x 20 series in general, from what I've read on the web, is that they generally need a lot of work to get them up to par, and I have 0 experience machining.It seems that you need to know what you are doing just to get them up to snuff - kind of a catch 22 situation. With he G 4000 being a relatively new model, I was wondering if the build quality was a little better than the rest of the pack.
Dan
My shop is in the basement, or I would probably just go for the Grizz 12 X 36, but at over 1000 pounds, I can't see getting it down the stairs. The G 4000 has a single quick change gear box, whereas the 4003 has 2, and most of the other small, non-9 x 20's require manual gear changes. I don't really know much about them, but got a little advice from a fellow turner yesterday who has a 12 x 36.
The discouraging thing about the 9 x 20 series in general, from what I've read on the web, is that they generally need a lot of work to get them up to par, and I have 0 experience machining.It seems that you need to know what you are doing just to get them up to snuff - kind of a catch 22 situation. With he G 4000 being a relatively new model, I was wondering if the build quality was a little better than the rest of the pack.
Dan
Chuck Key
Member
The ability to reverse the spindle is a good thing to have. Many cuts are easier to set up and perform with the lathe turning in reverse.
hilltopper46
Member
The 9x20 can run in reverse. That's done electrically with a switch. What you can't do in effect, is to reverse the lead screw in relation to the spindle.
Also, the quick change gear box on the 9x20 doesn't give you a very wide range of different threads. Chances are, any time you need to change to another thread setting, you will be changing gears anyway.
As far as precision boring is concerned, one thing that almost every one who owns one of these does is to beef up the hold-down for the tool post. I haven't done mine yet, but it needs it. If you get one I would plan on doing many of the mods that the 9x20 group on Yahoo has in their tips and tricks manual.
I don't mean to be a downer on this lathe, but it does need (IMHO) to be considered a good starting point. I haven't moved very far beyond that point on mine because my wife bought me a couple pen kits for Christmas 2005, and the rest, as they say, is history. :biggrin: I have made one custom bushing (to replace one that went walk-about on me) and I have drilled a few smallish Dymondwood blanks that I wanted to make cigar pens from. That's about all the pen-making stuff I have done with it.
Also, the quick change gear box on the 9x20 doesn't give you a very wide range of different threads. Chances are, any time you need to change to another thread setting, you will be changing gears anyway.
As far as precision boring is concerned, one thing that almost every one who owns one of these does is to beef up the hold-down for the tool post. I haven't done mine yet, but it needs it. If you get one I would plan on doing many of the mods that the 9x20 group on Yahoo has in their tips and tricks manual.
I don't mean to be a downer on this lathe, but it does need (IMHO) to be considered a good starting point. I haven't moved very far beyond that point on mine because my wife bought me a couple pen kits for Christmas 2005, and the rest, as they say, is history. :biggrin: I have made one custom bushing (to replace one that went walk-about on me) and I have drilled a few smallish Dymondwood blanks that I wanted to make cigar pens from. That's about all the pen-making stuff I have done with it.
Daniel
Member
I don't have the 9X20 but I do have the 7X12. they are close kin in the getting them up to snuff department. At least where the 7X12 is concerned you do not need to be a machinist to get them worked over. I did a lot of homework before I bought mine (Homier Speedway) which is the same thing as the Harbor Freight 7X12. I knew ahead of time that what I was buying where the raw materials to then "Hone" a very good lathe out of.
there really is nothing extremely hard about it just time consuming and care in the process. I sort of got in a relaxed mood and really took my time. I had to clean up all the parts anyway and got to know the lathe really well in the process. The only part I have not completed is shimming the tail stock so that I have ultra accurate alignment so I live with a pretty severe (as metal lathes go) taper in my turnings. I think it is something like 0.003 over about 5 inches. I found a list on The Yahoo group of what to go through and change, hone, polish or adjust.
I agree that a metal lathe is a completely different animal than a wood lathe. completely different tools, either have a love for charts or get one cause everything is done from them when it comes to setting speeds etc. and an affection for math is helpful. It is still weird for me to go to all the work of setting things up and then sort of step back and let the machine do the turning. but get the set up wrong and it all gets exciting again real quick.
anyway don't let the tweaking it stuff put you off it all has a huge advantaging in knowing your lathe later.
there really is nothing extremely hard about it just time consuming and care in the process. I sort of got in a relaxed mood and really took my time. I had to clean up all the parts anyway and got to know the lathe really well in the process. The only part I have not completed is shimming the tail stock so that I have ultra accurate alignment so I live with a pretty severe (as metal lathes go) taper in my turnings. I think it is something like 0.003 over about 5 inches. I found a list on The Yahoo group of what to go through and change, hone, polish or adjust.
I agree that a metal lathe is a completely different animal than a wood lathe. completely different tools, either have a love for charts or get one cause everything is done from them when it comes to setting speeds etc. and an affection for math is helpful. It is still weird for me to go to all the work of setting things up and then sort of step back and let the machine do the turning. but get the set up wrong and it all gets exciting again real quick.
anyway don't let the tweaking it stuff put you off it all has a huge advantaging in knowing your lathe later.
BigShed
Member
Dan, I recently purchased one of these and posted about it here.
My version of the 9x20 is an electronic variable speed with a 750W motor, it also has a camlock on the tailstock. Both these features are worth their weight in gold.
I don't know whether this version of the 9x20 is available in the US, but I would assume it would be.
So far I have adapted a Quick Change Tool Post from CDCO to it and I am now producing my own bushes and have just completed a sander mill and am about to make a series of Corian sleeves for that.
The possibilities are endless.
I am also working on a toolrest set up so that I can use it as a pen lathe if I want.
Having seen all these possibilities I decided to go the whole hog and have just purchased an X2 Mini Mill, I will post about that shortly.
randyrls
Member
Dan; If you want to switch lathes, I will be more than willing to let you have my G4000 in exchange for the 12x36, I'll even help move it :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
My uncle has a Clausing lathe in his basement. That thing weighs a ton! (no foolin!) He asked me to help him with a new milling machine. The outside basement wooden steps can be unbolted, and taken out and you are left with a "well" that goes straight down to the floor of the basement. Using a strong 2 ton hoist, we dropped the mill down to the floor of the basement and rolled it into place with a lifting dolly. All done.
randyrls
Member
I checked this out at one time, and it isn't available in the US. :frown:
The toolpost and rest is fairly easy. Remove the compound. Take 1" square steel tube about 7+" long and drill for your favorite tool rest post. The post will go inside the bed ways. Add a threaded hole to fasten the tool post. Drill 5mm holes to match the cross-slide. Install 5 x .8 mm 30mm(?) make or buy some t-nuts for the slots. Done. I'll take a photo later and post it in the thread. Time for supper now.
I have added a DC variable speed drive to my lathe along with a camlock tail stock, and I am working on the LH threading tumbler reverse.
randyrls
Member
toolcrazy
Member
300 lbs for a bench lathe, is a lot of lathe.
I was in the same place as you are a few weeks ago. I wanted a small metal lathe for doing bushings and pen parts. And due to the negitive reviews on most of the 7x12 lathes out there, I decided to spend a bit more and get the Micro-Mark Microlux 7x14. And man, what a nice lathe. Fit, finish and assembly was flawless. Very nice lathe. I will be doing a full review on my review site soon. Keep an eye out.
I was in the same place as you are a few weeks ago. I wanted a small metal lathe for doing bushings and pen parts. And due to the negitive reviews on most of the 7x12 lathes out there, I decided to spend a bit more and get the Micro-Mark Microlux 7x14. And man, what a nice lathe. Fit, finish and assembly was flawless. Very nice lathe. I will be doing a full review on my review site soon. Keep an eye out.
Dan_F
Member
Thanks for all of the replies. I can see the point of getting intimately familiar with the lathe by setting up and tuning up, but it would make me a little nervous if I had to do much in the way of filing of any critical surfaces.
Big Shed--- I remember that post, but couldn't find a distributor over here.
Randy--- Thanks for all of the details, guess I will be doing some more reading for a while before making a decision.
Dan
Big Shed--- I remember that post, but couldn't find a distributor over here.
Randy--- Thanks for all of the details, guess I will be doing some more reading for a while before making a decision.
Dan
Smiles
Member
I ended up getting the MicroMark version of this lathe, largely because the handwheels turned 0.050" per 360 degree turn. Most others (at least a few years ago) turned the metic equivalent, so it was difficult to do precise US measuring without calculating metirc to US. This might not matter at all for penturning, though!
Texatdurango
Member
This is not true with the Grizzly G4000 which is being discussed here. So as not to confuse anyone, the Grizzly G4000 also has inch increments on the dials. If I want to take a .020" deep cut, I simply turn the handwheel .020"!