changing speeds

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jharvey1309

jharvey1309

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
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136
Location
Holstein, Ontario, Canada.
I was hoping I could get some help here on changing the torque of my lathe. I have a Vicmarc VL300 shortbed and don't know how to change the belt to give myself more torque. it has three pulleys on the top and on the bottom. if I move the belt one on the top do I also move the belt on the bottom? I am not sure how changing the belt to a different pulley works and the manual for the vicmarcs suck.

Please help. I just got this machine a few months ago and do want to ruin it quite yet. I've not needed to change the belt for pens but I'm working on a large bowl today and I need some more torque.

Jonathan
 
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Big pulley on the motor matched with small pulley on the spindle = low speed
Medium pulley on the motor matched with medium pulley on the spindle = medium speed
Small pulley on the motor matched with big pulley on the spindle = high speed

I think I got that right :biggrin:

I don't know if the torque is affected or not.
 
VisExp said:
Big pulley on the motor matched with small pulley on the spindle = low speed
Medium pulley on the motor matched with medium pulley on the spindle = medium speed
Small pulley on the motor matched with big pulley on the spindle = high speed

I think I got that right :biggrin:

I don't know if the torque is affected or not.
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After playing around with it a bit I think it may be the opposite of what you said. Small pulley at the motor big pulley at the spindle = low speed.

My only issue and it may not even be an issue is that my digital RPM readout is all wrong with the pulley changed. It says I'm turning at 1700RPM (roughly when set to low speed) and 400-500 RPM when on high speed.

I have no clue and feel stupid but I figure I have to ask or I will never learn.

Jonathan
 
Not meaning to sound insulting, but, did you read the owners manual?
And, did you take high school general science? Pulleys are just levers and understanding that simple concept makes where to put your belts obvious. Short lesson: small power pulley connected to big pulley makes things go slow but powerful. Big drive to small makes fast but with less torque (power). Same principle as a car tranny.
 
jharvey1309 said:
After playing around with it a bit I think it may be the opposite of what you said. Small pulley at the motor big pulley at the spindle = low speed.

I have no clue and feel stupid but I figure I have to ask or I will never learn.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I checked the diagram on my lathe and you are correct. I got it all mixed up :redface:

At least we're in good company now, we both feel stupid :biggrin:

Sorry I couldn't be more help, I hope you get it sorted out
 
No offence, Keith, but you've got it backwards. As Frank said, small on the motor and large on the spindle is slow.

Jonathan, in reply to one of your questions, you always move the belt on both pulleys. The belt must pull in a straight line. So, you are never in step one on the motor and step two on the spindle, for example.
 
Another basic - Speed and torque are not synonymous. On belt and gear drives, higher speed usually means less torque. Lower speed = higher torque.

Speed is . . speed like a 160 lb sprinter - 10 seconds for a 100 yard sprint.
torque is the power like a 500 lb sumo wrestler.

Generally - Opposite ends of the spectrum.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
Not meaning to sound insulting, but, did you read the owners manual?
And, did you take high school general science? Pulleys are just levers and understanding that simple concept makes where to put your belts obvious. Short lesson: small power pulley connected to big pulley makes things go slow but powerful. Big drive to small makes fast but with less torque (power). Same principle as a car tranny.
Click to expand...


I'm not insulted at all, In fact I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the brightest when it comes to these matters and thats why I asked the question. I took advanced science in high school but that does not mean I was paying attention. :)

Also I know nothing about car trannys.

Thanks for you lesson although I don't know if I learned too much from it. What do you mean by small power pulley? Does that mean the pulley connected to the motor?

You'll notice as I post on this board that I checked my pride and don't mind asking questions that may make me look like a fool, I don't mind because at the end of the day I've learned something.
 
jharvey1309 said:
You'll notice as I post on this board that I checked my pride and don't mind asking questions that may make me look like a fool, I don't mind because at the end of the day I've learned something.
Click to expand...

Never feel foolish about asking a question... Way WAAAAy back when I was a sailor, my chief petty office told me "The only stupid question is usually the one you don't ask."... That's how we learn, asking questions and I never mind anyone asking me a question... remember when your little ones were learning and thier favorite question was, "why?"
 
I always remember pulley speeds this way ... The BIGGER the drive pulley (the one on the motor) matched with a smaller DRIVEN pulley (the one on the other end) the FASTER the driven. If both pulleys are the same size then everything turns 1:1 and equal to the speed of he motor.

A large pulley, for instance a 12" driver one, matched up against a 6" driven one, equates to two revolutions of the driven pulley. The driven pulley has to travel twice as fast as the driver to keep up.

Sometimes it can get really, really, really fast quick. So fast in fact that the finish will fly off and get you all gummied up! DAMHIKT :eek:
 
Jonathan:

Is this the lathe you own?

http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=536

If so the following is from their web site.

The VL300 Series Electronic Variable Speed Lathe has been designed to suit most professional wood turners. The electronic variable speed drive gives up to 200% torque on low rpm and the 2.2kw motor is adequate for this size lathe. The three-step pulleys provide 3 ratios 1:1 for small to medium size work; 1:1.5 for medium to large work; and 1:3 for large work.

It appears that your lathe has electronic variable speed (EVS) which means you can change the speed of the motor by twisting a button or knob and setting the speed. According to the web site, the speed range is from 10 RPMs to 3000 RPMs.

With EVS, typically, a great deal of motor torque is lost at motor speeds so what the engineers do is play a little trick and put several different sized pulleys in the drive train so the motor can maintain a reasonably high speed even though the HS spindle and work itself is turning more slowly.

So what you have is a situation where you actually have three speed ranges on your lathe (which probably overlap somewhat) so that you can select the best combination of rotational speed and torque and these speed ranges are determined by which pulleys the belt rides on. If you will look carefully, the smallest motor pulley will line up with the biggest pulley on the HS spindle and the biggest pulley on the motor will line up with the smallest pulley on the headstock spindle. And then there will be an intermediate sized pulley on both the motor and the HS spindle that line up with each other. Actually, there will not be three different sized pulleys on each shaft, just a single pulley with three different sized steps.

You must keep the belt straight and not "cross-thread" it. It must be set up to run from the small motor step to the big spindle step, or between the two intermediate steps or between the big motor step and the small spindle step. You will get the fastest spindle speeds when the belt is on the biggest motor pulley step and the slowest spindle speeds when the belt is on the smallest motor pulley step and, of course, some middle speed when the belt is on the two middle pulleys.

I did not see any information on the Vicmarc web site about speed ranges; but I'm sure they are mentioned in the manual. Just as a guess as an example, the low range might be say 10 RPMs to 700 RPMs and the high range might be 1200 RPMs to 3000 RPMs. And the mid-range might be say 600 RPMs to 2000 RPMS. (Note: I just found another web site that said the speed ranges are: 10-1000, 20-2000 and 30-3000. That might be correct or it might not?? Check your manual.)

I'm not quite sure what the problem is with the digital readout? Sometimes those things just don't work right. If the speed range i mentioned above is correct, you should not be able to get 1700 RPMs in the low range but you certainly could get 500 in the high range. maybe you are just confused, maybe you don't have the belt lined up properly? Try fooling with it some more. I think you will be able tom figure it out.

Hopefully, some of what I have said will be of help. If you are still having difficulty, ask some more questions here a or call Vicmarc customer service. One way or the other we should be able to get you squared away!!

Good luck!!:bananen_smilies046:


 
Randy_ said:
Jonathan:

Is this the lathe you own?

http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=536

If so the following is from their web site.

The VL300 Series Electronic Variable Speed Lathe has been designed to suit most professional wood turners. The electronic variable speed drive gives up to 200% torque on low rpm and the 2.2kw motor is adequate for this size lathe. The three-step pulleys provide 3 ratios 1:1 for small to medium size work; 1:1.5 for medium to large work; and 1:3 for large work.

It appears that your lathe has electronic variable speed (EVS) which means you can change the speed of the motor by twisting a button or knob and setting the speed. According to the web site, the speed range is from 10 RPMs to 3000 RPMs.

With EVS, typically, a great deal of motor torque is lost at motor speeds so what the engineers do is play a little trick and put several different sized pulleys in the drive train so the motor can maintain a reasonably high speed even though the HS spindle and work itself is turning more slowly.

So what you have is a situation where you actually have three speed ranges on your lathe (which probably overlap somewhat) so that you can select the best combination of rotational speed and torque and these speed ranges are determined by which pulleys the belt rides on. If you will look carefully, the smallest motor pulley will line up with the biggest pulley on the HS spindle and the biggest pulley on the motor will line up with the smallest pulley on the headstock spindle. And then there will be an intermediate sized pulley on both the motor and the HS spindle that line up with each other. Actually, there will not be three different sized pulleys on each shaft, just a single pulley with three different sized steps.

You must keep the belt straight and not "cross-thread" it. It must be set up to run from the small motor step to the big spindle step, or between the two intermediate steps or between the big motor step and the small spindle step. You will get the fastest spindle speeds when the belt is on the biggest motor pulley step and the slowest spindle speeds when the belt is on the smallest motor pulley step and, of course, some middle speed when the belt is on the two middle pulleys.

I did not see any information on the Vicmarc web site about speed ranges; but I'm sure they are mentioned in the manual. Just as a guess as an example, the low range might be say 10 RPMs to 700 RPMs and the high range might be 1200 RPMs to 3000 RPMs. And the mid-range might be say 600 RPMs to 2000 RPMS. (Note: I just found another web site that said the speed ranges are: 10-1000, 20-2000 and 30-3000. That might be correct or it might not?? Check your manual.)

I'm not quite sure what the problem is with the digital readout? Sometimes those things just don't work right. If the speed range i mentioned above is correct, you should not be able to get 1700 RPMs in the low range but you certainly could get 500 in the high range. maybe you are just confused, maybe you don't have the belt lined up properly? Try fooling with it some more. I think you will be able tom figure it out.

Hopefully, some of what I have said will be of help. If you are still having difficulty, ask some more questions here a or call Vicmarc customer service. One way or the other we should be able to get you squared away!!

Good luck!!:bananen_smilies046:


Click to expand...


Thanks for all of that information. I wish I could send you a copy of the PDF. Manual
it is only 12 pages long and does not mention how the step pulley system works. The manual is also outdated as my motor is completly different then the one the show ant speak of.

I kind of understand what you are saying and will continue to fiddle with it, I am just a little worried that fiddling may lead me to a repair bill if I screw something up. My understanding is that the digital RPM readout will not be accurate when the belts have been changed you just need to perform the ratio in your head. so I have a EVS so I just turn the knob to go faster so as a simple ratio if I turn the knob to 5 I would be turning at roughly 1500RPM on a 1:1 ratio but if the belts are set to a 1:3 ratio I would be turning at about 400-500RPM.

I think that makes sense :)

The lathe is a bit overkill for Pens but I had never though I would enjoy pen making so much. I bought the lathe for larger vessel but I seem to find myself turning pens more then anything else.
 
jharvey1309 said:
.....I kind of understand what you are saying and will continue to fiddle with it, I am just a little worried that fiddling may lead me to a repair bill if I screw something up. My understanding is that the digital RPM readout will not be accurate when the belts have been changed you just need to perform the ratio in your head. so I have a EVS so I just turn the knob to go faster so as a simple ratio if I turn the knob to 5 I would be turning at roughly 1500RPM on a 1:1 ratio but if the belts are set to a 1:3 ratio I would be turning at about 400-500RPM.
,,,,.
Click to expand...

As to the first hilited comment that is probably not true. Understand that I do not know exactly how the Vicmarc works and am basing my comments on how lathes work in general. Most likely, the numbers on your speed control are relative numbers, only and have no exact relation to the actual speed of the motor or the spindle. They are sort of like the numbers on the dial of your kitchen stove burner control. 1 is low heat and 10 is high heat but the really don't represent a specific temperature.

As to point two, the trigger and the sensor for the digital readout would normally be attached to the HS spindle so it should give you an accurate reading regardless of which step the belts are running on. This would be like the spedometer in your car which will give a correct speed whether the transmission in in low gear or in high gear.

Just for fun, take your lathe in its present configuration and turn the speed dial all the way down and all the way up and note what the digital speed readings are. Move the belt to another position and do the same thing noting the lowest and highest speed. Thel move the belt tp the third position and again note the high and low speeds. Then post those figures here so we can all see the results. It might help us understand what is happening.

Note that lathe is designed to have the belts moved so there is little or no possibility thay you will do damage to your lathe.

I have sent a link to this thread to Vicmarc in Australia. Hopefully, they will choose to chime in with some helpful advice.

Your first option in a situation like this should always be to contact the folks from whome you purchased the machine. Did you buy it locally from a dealer or did you purchase it on the Internet directly from Vicmarc in Australia. Craft Supply USA sells the Vicmarc VL300 so you might be able to contact them for information, Their web site says to call:

For additional information or to order a lathe please contact:
Roger Durst
Lathe Technician
1-800-551-8876

The 800 phone number probably won't work for you in Canada; but you can invest a few dollars in a "normal" phone call to thier local number.....801-373-0917.....and get ahold of the guy. CSUSA is in the Mountain time zone so be sure you call at an appropriate time.

Good luck!!
 
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Ok so I moved the belt to the different pullyes and recorded my results.

First I had the belt on the large step on the motor and the small step on the HS I set the dial to one and the RPM's read 30.0 then moved the dial to 11 and the RPM's read 3000

Second I moved the belt to the middle step on the motor and the HS, set the dial to 1 and the RPM's read 30.0 then set the dial to 11 and the RPM's read 3000RPM

Third I set the belt to the smallest step on the motor and the largest on the HS set the dial to 1 and the RPM's showed 30.0 then set the dial to 11 and the RPM's showed 3000. I could clearly see that it was not rotating at 3000RMP but thats what the read out says :)

I don't know what to make of it...
 
OK, Jonathan:

The mystery is solved; but first let me say that you can contact KMS Tools through their toll free phone number listed below:

Coquitlam (Main Store)
110 Woolridge St
Coquitlam BC V3K 5V4
Phone: 604-522-5599
Fax: 604-522-8411
Toll Free Phone: 1-800-567-8979
Toll Free Fax: 1-800-567-3799
email: csr@kmstools.com

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
And now for the fun part. Since my curiosity was up and since I can use the "800" that CSUSA has, I decided to call them myself to see what was going on. It turns out you are probably doing everything OK and the problem lies with the crappy manual and the fact that everything in Australia is upside down and their lathe design is not as one might expect.

According to the very helpful technician at CSUSA, the speed sensor on the Vicmarc VL300 is on the motor and "NOT" on the spindle as I had speculated so the digital speed readout will not vary in its upper and lower limits regardless of where the belt is running as it measures motor speed and not spindle speed. So it looks as if your lathe is running properly. Sorry to have mislead you.

To reiterate, changing the location of the belt will change the speed range of the HS spindle and the torque available for turning; but you will not see the change of speed range in the spindle as the sensor is measuring motor speed.

For pens and other small items, you will probably want to be in the high range (big motor pulley) and if you start working on bigger projects (like big bowls or platters) and the motor starts to lug down or stall than you will want to go to the middle or low range belt position(small motor pulley).

Hope that gets it for you.

If you have any other questions, keep asking and we will try to get you squared away.

Oh yeah.....one other thing. The guy at CSUSA said that when the Vicmarc VL300 first came out, there were a lot of problems with the motor and the EVS. They revamped the entire system to resolve the problems and that may be the explanation for the manual not matching your motor layout. Hopefully, you have the updated EVS system and an old manual. For that price they charge, though, you would think they could put out a decent and updated manual??:rolleyes:
 
Well You are amazing, Just forward me the bill :) Thanks for all of your help You've gone above and beyond.

Why in the world would the put the readout on the motor and not on the HS? I don't understand why they would put it there?

My lathe was manufactured in 2007 so it is quite new. I think the older ones he is referring to are the ones that at shown in the manual and they have a two step pulley.

Your right about the hefty price tag. for the price of the lathe the pages should be gilded :)

Send me your e-mail I want to send you a copy of the manual (it's a PDF.) so that you can see what I am talking about.

Thanks again,
Jonathan
 
Done. Glad to be of help!!

Coincidentally, I had a friend years ago named John Harvey who was also a Canuck. He and I meet through a canoe club here in Dallas.

He moved back to Canada years ago to marry a Canadian girl (we always thought he was a confirmed batchelor and were quite surprised with the announcement) and I lost track of him.

P.S. What is a CYW??
 
Randy_ said:
Done. Glad to be of help!!

Coincidentally, I had a friend years ago named John Harvey who was also a Canuck. He and I meet through a canoe club here in Dallas.

He moved back to Canada years ago to marry a Canadian girl (we always thought he was a confirmed batchelor and were quite surprised with the announcement) and I lost track of him.

P.S. What is a CYW??
Click to expand...

No Canoe club here for me. A Cuban Cigar club, but no canoe :)

CYW stands for "Child and Youth Worker" Essentially working with children and youth who come from physically, sexually and mentally abusive homes. Most of my work was in group homes. I no longer work as a CYW as such, My wife and I have three foster children that have lived with us for the past seven years.

The wood turning was a great past time that helped kill the stress. I've since registered it as a business and am hoping for the best.

Jonathan
 
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