Can you make a wooden kitless pen that both posts and doesn't scratch the wood on the body?

[cjenkins]

Hi all, I am wanting to make a wooden kitless pen that posts. The problem with this is, in order to hold a thread, the material on the inside of the cap needs to be harder than wood or stabilised wood (I think?). So when you try to post the cap, it will scratch the wood over time. I thought of a potential solution to this - have the threads on the section be by the nib instead of the usual place, so that the associated cap threads can be deeper in the cap. Then, have the first half of the cap be lined with a softer material (rubber?) that won't scratch the wood when you try to post the cap. And have the second half of the cap (the deeper part of the cap where the nib goes) be the harder material that can hold a thread. Like this picture. (Pardon the sketching, I'm not exactly the best artist.) Does anyone notice any immediate problems with this? Has a better/easier solution been done? Trying to potentially save a lot of time trying to make custom threads.

(Edit: I noticed that the pen I drew can't post, the cap is the same size as the barrel. I meant for a pen whose barrel is tapered)

 

[darrin1200]

I personally, don't design my to post.

The problem I foresee, is the eventual size of your cap.
For a #6 nib, your inner cap will have to have a minimum of 11mm threads, which means your plug will be at least 12mm. Your main hole through the cap will need to be drilled at 13mm if your rubber is 1mm thick.
Then it will need to figure out how much wood you need to be solid. I would guess 2mm thick.
This will give your cap a 17mm diameter.

This is one of the reasons that sleeves of "plastic" are generally used. Because the plastic I'd harder, the wood/plastic can be thinner.

 

[Penchant 4]

Good luck!

Think cap drilling would need to be 14mm, if the rubber is 1mm. Maybe I misunderstood

 

[cjenkins]

Ah, you're right! It slipped my mind, the plastic couldn't just be in the second half of the sleeve, it would have to line the entire sleeve. The plastic doesn't just need to hold a thread, it needs to give structural integrity to the wood.

Did a lot of thinking, and I think it would actually be alright. For the thicknesses of the materials, I have an all-plastic Platinum pen that the plastic is, I kid you not, 0.5mm thick, and that pen feels plenty rigid. So I'm going to try to do plastic inner sleeves that are 0.5mm thick, with the threaded sections being thicker. I've also been looking at the difference between the width of the barrels and bushings in pen kits, and I've found that it tends to be around 1.5-2.2mm. So I'm planning on making the wood 1.5mm thick. Also, since the rubber wouldn't need to be there for structural integrity, all that would matter is it wouldn't wear away with repeated postings, I'm guessing it could be pretty thin, 0.5mm or even thinner. So that would add up to a 2.5mm thick cap. Assuming the rubber could hopefully be that thin.

So it would be M11 threads, then a 12mm plug, then it would be 12.5mm so that 0.5mm of rubber could fit in it. And the plastic would be 0.5mm thick so that's 13mm, and the wood would be 1.5mm thick so that's 14.5mm cap diameter. And then that would mean the barrel of the pen could be 12mm, which is good.

Also for acrylic kitless pens, the chamfer on the front of the inside of the cap that makes it so that the threads are easy to engage also has the effect of making the cap appear thinner than it is. I would imagine doing a similar thing to a plastic/rubber sleeve on a wooden pen would make the cap appear thinner as well. So it might not look so clunky hopefully.

This forum is great, it makes you think of things you otherwise wouldn't have thought of, or wouldn't have thought of until you learned the hard way.

Does this all seem logical? Did I miss anything? I am new to this, so I am thinking of all of this theoretically, I don't have much actual experience making pens.

 

[cjenkins]

Like this:

 

[darrin1200]

I think you are forgetting that your dimensions for the rubber, the plastic, and the wood have to double, because there are two sides to a cap.
So you would have a total thickness of 17mm

 

[cjenkins]

Ohhhh. Dangit! I see what you're saying now...

Hmm, maybe a smaller nib? The #5 Jowo nib's thread housing is M6.5. So I guess the section threads for that could be 9mm, and the section would be 10mm? So then that would be a 15mm cap. I've never seen a Jowo #5 nib before though, I don't know if I'll not like how tiny it is.

 

[dkrwoodturning]

Chloe the old adage, if it ain't broke dont fix it. It is greatyou are new to pen making and you are charging in but look at the makers that are doing it. You have Casey in Australia, who i consider the best custom timber fountain pen maker there. If he hasnt gone down that path there are probably good reasons. As others have mentioned, size and tolerances. Custom timber fountain pens need balance, refinement, lightness in the hand and most of all comfort in the hand when writing. A bulky cap posted will not be any of those criterias. Elegance and beauty come from traditional lines that a non post pen show. Slow down and walk before you can run

 

[Penultimate]

Hi and welcome,
If you want to make a pen with cap threads close to the nib then I recommend starting with a polymer blank. You won't have the the extra thickness due to the sleeve and wood blank. Some of the earliest fountain pens were made with threads by the nib, they were called safety pens. My first kitless was a safety pen.

If you want to make a wood pen then follow Darren's advice.

 

[cjenkins]

Chloe the old adage, if it ain't broke dont fix it. It is greatyou are new to pen making and you are charging in but look at the makers that are doing it. You have Casey in Australia, who i consider the best custom timber fountain pen maker there. If he hasnt gone down that path there are probably good reasons. As others have mentioned, size and tolerances. Custom timber fountain pens need balance, refinement, lightness in the hand and most of all comfort in the hand when writing. A bulky cap posted will not be any of those criterias. Elegance and beauty come from traditional lines that a non post pen show. Slow down and walk before you can run

Noted. I'm still going to try though haha. Yes, Casey has been a huge inspiration for me!

 

[cjenkins]

Hi and welcome,
If you want to make a pen with cap threads close to the nib then I recommend starting with a polymer blank. You won't have the the extra thickness due to the sleeve and wood blank. Some of the earliest fountain pens were made with threads by the nib, they were called safety pens. My first kitless was a safety pen.

If you want to make a wood pen then follow Darren's advice.

Hello! I have been looking at your plunge filler pens, they are very cool!

That's cool, I didn't know about safety pens. I was looking through your pictures, and I didn't see a pen like that (unless I missed it..but I have been pretty thorough heheh), you should post your first safety pen, for pen history! I feel like beginners these days are all making kitless pens that have the threads in the middle, because those are what's in the Youtube tutorials by RJBwoodturner, Turner's Warehouse etc. I guess I never thought about what kitless pens would be like before those tutorials.

Wait, a polymer blank as in polymer clay? Why that over resins and such?

 

[Penultimate]

Hi,
Unfortunately, I don't have a photo of my safety pen. I broke the cap by closing a laptop screen so the remnants are in the Drawer of Mis-Fit Pens.

I used polymer as a generic word for resins like acrylic, cellulose acetate etc. Resins would be a better general description.

This forum is the best place to learn about making fountain pens,IMHO better than most Youtube vids. All the members are talented and willing to help. It is easy to discuss details here that may not be covered in a vid.
Good luck.