Getting started priorities?

[ramaroodle]

So on the advice here I'm looking at doing Sierra style pens to train on. Additionally, I was looking on Exotic Blanks for lengths of 27/64" and see they don't carry them. What they do carry are precut Sierra blanks, which isn't a bad idea, with their 50pc bundle it's a good savings over individual tubes. I'll be buying these, probably a few Sierra style pens (don't know which), and maybe a few acrylic blanks to see how they are to turn. Thanks for the advice, it will save me money while I learn. Bonus is of a blank turns out to be really good, I'll just crack open a kit and assemble it.

Don't tell anybody I said this , but I will often drill and turn a blank without gluing the tube in. Put the tube in and turn it like you usually do but don't glue it until you are happy with the blank. Also, call Ed at Exotics and tell him what you're thinking. He will steer you in the right direction. 27/64 tubes (10.5mm) are a typical size, and tons of kits use that size. Cutting the tubes to size is no big deal. I keep 3/8 and 27/64ths on hand. The trick of NOT gluing the tube in comes in handy for me when I'm making a kit that I don't make too often, especially when I'm engraving it.

In answer to your question re epoxy, it just flows with my philosophy of eliminating the cause of possible failures after I've spent days making a segmented blank. CA has its uses, just not for holding differing components together. Again, it's brittle and lacks shear strength.

 

[jrista]

So on the advice here I'm looking at doing Sierra style pens to train on. Additionally, I was looking on Exotic Blanks for lengths of 27/64" and see they don't carry them. What they do carry are precut Sierra blanks, which isn't a bad idea, with their 50pc bundle it's a good savings over individual tubes. I'll be buying these, probably a few Sierra style pens (don't know which), and maybe a few acrylic blanks to see how they are to turn. Thanks for the advice, it will save me money while I learn. Bonus is of a blank turns out to be really good, I'll just crack open a kit and assemble it.

You should be able to find that drill bit size anywhere. Amazon, Home Depot, Lowes, McMaster Carr, etc. There are alternatives to Exotic Blanks, too. Penn State Industries, Berea, Craft Supplies USA, etc.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

You should be able to find that drill bit size anywhere. Amazon, Home Depot, Lowes, McMaster Carr, etc. There are alternatives to Exotic Blanks, too. Penn State Industries, Berea, Craft Supplies USA, etc.

I'm not talking about the but bit the tube itself. I'm actually half to find precut in this instance as I wouldn't by modifying the length of a Sierra kit.

 

[leehljp]

The only caveat I would say about that is every blank should be turned with a kit in mind. Nothing worse then creating a piece that is quality and it not working with the hardware, lol. I say this not from having done it, but rather as a product designer knowing that there is much more involved than just sticking pieces together.

That works for some, but there are other reasons to turn a blank without a kit or pen in mind.

With a new turning tool, or testing out the sharpness of a tool with a new sharpener - it is one thing to go and turn a pen, but it is another to spend 100% of the journey focusing on the feel - getting to know the feel of the tool and a good piece of hard wood, then on a knotty piece and then on a couple of pieces of soft wood. The pen is not "always" the end result of a turn. Getting to know the tool and the feel and feedback means a lot to me. Can the user sense when a tool changes from very sharp to "beginning to dull a bit"? I don't always sense that as much as suddenly I am applying a hint of more pressure to finish the cut. Yes, those senses feedback during the turning of a blank for a pen for sure, but the practice helps one more quickly and consciously recognize the changes in the feel and feedback.

One of the problems associated with mandrels through the years has been when a tool begins to get a little dull. The turner doesn't recognize it at first and begins to apply a minuscule more amount of pressure. This causes the mandrel to begin deflecting. Usually this happens without the turner knowing that the blade is yet dull since it still cuts. There are dozens of threads of the something wrong that end up being a bent mandrel or deflection due to dulled tool and too much pressure applied.

Getting to know the tool, it's feel, the feedback - is like getting to know and respect for the tool itself. The blank's purpose at this point is to let one get to know their tool and respect it as in the link below:

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[ramaroodle]

^^This!!
It has taken me 7 years to realize this! The pen isn't necessarily the thing. It has taken me this long to actually feel that the tool is dull because I'm trying to make a pen, not first turn a blank. They are 2 separate yet dependent skills.

Maybe spend a week just turning different types of wood with different tools. Fat blanks. Light touch. Feel them get dull. "Use The Force Luke". Don't glue the tube in the blanks when you are practicing turning. Drill them then put the tube and bushings in and turn it off. Rinse and repeat.

 

[mmayo]

As a new pen turner it's easy to get lost in the magnitude of choices in pen kits, let's not even discuss blank choices. I like most, I think, procured a starter kit of slimline pens and blanks to start with. I've drooled over the available designs some i really like the look of regardless of price.

Now onto my question(s), with all that said. Just starting out it's easy to get analysis paralysis. I have the following questions for the groups wisdom to discuss.

1. What kit would you start with as a new pen turner?
2. Would you stick with one kit for awhile or pick a few different to learn the hobby with?
3. What would be the Ballpoint, Rollerball, and Fountain pen models you would suggest for a new pen turner? (Think minimizing supper equipment, bushings, drill bits,...)
4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on? (Both is a viable answer)
5. Any other advice you would give a new pen turner, that you wish you knew when you started?

Thanks
Gregory

Try a Diamond Knurl Ballpoint- to me easier than a Sierra and perhaps a diamond knurl rollerball. Both are available from Exotic Blanks a great company to get to know.

Wood is easy, but if you use wood I strongly suggest you master the CA finish. The other finishes are easier but not the best choice. It will be worth it in the long run.

I'd further suggest you move ASAP from a mandrel to real TBC bushings. Look up Nikitas or Rick Herrell to buy some. Don't buy the faux tbc deals.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Try a Diamond Knurl Ballpoint- to me easier than a Sierra and perhaps a diamond knurl rollerball. Both are available from Exotic Blanks a great company to get to know.

Wood is easy, but if you use wood I strongly suggest you master the CA finish. The other finishes are easier but not the best choice. It will be worth it in the long run.

I'd further suggest you move ASAP from a mandrel to real TBC bushings. Look up Nikitas or Rick Herrell to buy some. Don't buy the faux tbc deals.

I have 4 Diamond Knurl Ballpoint pens in my Exotic Blanks order. I'm buying several Sierra style pens and 50 additional tubes to practice with.

I'm also planning on learning a CA finishing technique. I question if I should be looking at a buffing system or using buffing compounds/polishes instead.

Are you not a fan of using mandrel bushings on individual pins at all? I have read that the 60° TBC bushing method is superior, but also the above is a step up from a mandrel.

 

[jttheclockman]

I have 4 Diamond Knurl Ballpoint pens in my Exotic Blanks order. I'm buying several Sierra style pens and 50 additional tubes to practice with.

I'm also planning on learning a CA finishing technique. I question if I should be looking at a buffing system or using buffing compounds/polishes instead.

Are you not a fan of using mandrel bushings on individual pins at all? I have read that the 60° TBC bushing method is superior, but also the above is a step up from a mandrel.

I am not going to tell you what you should do or not do. I think you should make decisions on your own. What members here are probably telling you what they have learned or what methods they use to make their pens. There is no right or wrong way but many different methods. As far as bushings go IO have the original mandrel I started with over 15 years ago and still as good as the day I bought it. I use the standard bushings you are able to buy for each kit. I have never run into one that was badily drilled out or warped or anything like that and I have bought many. maybe I am the luckiest pen turner in the world. So be it. But I will say I only use the bushings as a guide. I use calipers to get me to final dimensions at all times. I never over tighten my mandrel so it stay straight. I turn one barrel at a time so I keep the rod length short and this helps. I can never see an advantage of doing both blanks at the same time. Only takes a few seconds to take one off and put other on. Again these are my methods.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

I turn one barrel at a time so I keep the rod length short and this helps. I can never see an advantage of doing both blanks at the same time.

Question: I can appreciate this approach for turning, but do you ever sand and finish with both on the mandrel ever?

Thanks for your input. I agree each person needs to develop their own methods that work for them. Many think I saw x so it this way and they make good product, so that must be the way. Others experiences should be a guide to a way that may or not may work for you, something to try for yourself, but shouldn't be a be all end all.

 

[Woodchipper]

I like Hank's post. Lots to learn and we never stop learning.

 

[jttheclockman]

Question: I can appreciate this approach for turning, but do you ever sand and finish with both on the mandrel ever?

Thanks for your input. I agree each person needs to develop their own methods that work for them. Many think I saw x so it this way and they make good product, so that must be the way. Others experiences should be a guide to a way that may or not may work for you, something to try for yourself, but shouldn't be a be all end all.

Never. I turn and finish one blank at a time. I do this as a hobby and not a business so never in a rush. Haste makes waste as they say.

 

[Woodchipper]

Haste makes mistakes, too.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Haste makes mistakes, too.

This is very true and good advice regardless of endeavor. Well maybe not a race of some sort, but you get my point.

 

[greenacres2]

I like Hank's post. Lots to learn and we never stop learning.

I agree--lots of good meat in Hank's post. I'd also add that often i'll work on my finishing or tool techniques while i'm turning a pen blank down to size. Once the blank is round, i can work on technique or a tool--then turn it round again and do it again. I do that on a regular basis to work on using a steel skew chisel--if i ever get that skill consistently i'll be able to stop using sandpaper!!

 

[Woodchipper]

I agree--lots of good meat in Hank's post. I'd also add that often i'll work on my finishing or tool techniques while i'm turning a pen blank down to size. Once the blank is round, i can work on technique or a tool--then turn it round again and do it again. I do that on a regular basis to work on using a steel skew chisel--if i ever get that skill consistently i'll be able to stop using sandpaper!!

Lots of good videos on using the skew. Start with a search on YouTube or enter: John Lucas, Mike Peace, Richard Raffan, Tomislav Tomasic, to name a few.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Lots of good videos on using the skew. Start with a search on YouTube or enter: John Lucas, Mike Peace, Richard Raffan, Tomislav Tomasic, to name a few.

You forgot Sam Angelo. I love watching the 4 way videos that he, Mike, Richard, and Tomislav do every month.

 

[greenacres2]

Lots of good videos on using the skew. Start with a search on YouTube or enter: John Lucas, Mike Peace, Richard Raffan, Tomislav Tomasic, to name a few.

Yep, i've watched many videos--just need to get my skew to watch them too!! (i'm much better with it than i was, Things like candle sticks & wig stands are okay, but i don't have confidence in the precision of matching pen hardware to blank diameter...yet!!)

 

[ed4copies]

One of the "common practices" in this industry: We refer to pen parts based on the size hole we drill.
Brass tubes are never the "advertised size".

 

[Loucurr]

The simple answer is to stick with one or two styles until you can acquire the skills to make a perfect fit to the components. Slimlines are always an obvious choice because of cost but they do have a degree of difficulty because of the narrow barrel and having to turn two separate pieces. I believe that the best place to start is to find a one-barrel pen kit that you like and start with that. Then you can move on. It's easier to learn, cheaper as if you buy too many different kits you have to purchase corresponding bushings.

Once you get the hang of the intricacies of pen turning then you can move on but do only a few new ones at a time. Perfect those and then move on. In time you will develop a system and a style all your own.

One thing that helps is having the correct tooling to make the task easier and more enjoyable. using a drill press is fine but requires some type of blank holder and all the different end cutting mills. Many find it much easier to drill blanks on the lathe using pen jaws. You can find the off-center jig here on IAP to sand the blanks flush. Much easier process and results in a much better fitting blank. Another item that I find that is very helpful is a pen press. Having all the right tools and reducing frustrations is key to becoming successful.

As far as medium is concerned, I would start with wood (cheaper) and easier to turn. Acrylic blanks are nice but have a different turning approach. I will mainly use traditional tools on wood and carbide on acrylic.

Most import is to enjoy and have fun.