Label Casting, Licensing, and Fair Use

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egnald

egnald

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Columbus, Nebraska, USA
Greetings from Nebraska.

As the title of this thread indicates, I am interested in the thoughts and experiences of label casters related to using images found online.

Coming from Nebraska, I am very sensitive to the use of a big red "N" as it is very close to the official, licensable, logo of the University of Nebraska. My understanding is that pictures online have an implied copyright and legally you need to get permission as in a license from the copyright owner to use their image. However, isn't there also a Fair Use doctrine that allows one to use copyrighted images for personal use, i.e. not for sale? And would this extend to using the images as a gift for someone?

Example #1, a Jack Daniel's logo image embellished with someone's name as the cap on a pen with a barrel made from a Jack Daniel's barrel stave along with the COA from the wood supplier.

Example #2, a playing card blank. Is there a difference between using a genuine playing card vs. a scanned and printed image of the playing card?

Example #3, Candy (or other product) wrappers or scanned images of them?

Not that I have any reasonable concerns that someone is going to come after me for such a limited, minor infringement of copyright laws should I gift a few pens using their images, but since I am just starting out with label casting I thought I would ask the experts before doing something I would catch flack over.

Please PM me with your comments if you are at all hesitant to respond in the open on this public thread. I'm really interested in your thoughts on this matter.

Dave
 
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Dave, the problem with asking experts in pen-making to offer an opinion on a legal matter should be fairly obvious (unless some of them are also lawyers specializing in copyright and intellectual property law.)
 
Oh Boy….. you opened a huge can of worms. Lol. This has always been a big conversation with individual interpretations.
Like mentioned above, legal advice is best from a lawyer but unfortunately many laws are written to be interpreted until case law fine tunes them. I always say, if the law was written clearly and precise lawyers would be out of a job. Lol

I don't give advice but will share what I have done. Without getting too deep, I will "reuse" something rather than "reproduce" it. That can still be a grey area with the copyright laws because the registered owner has to defend their rights. They worry about profit loss of their products and disrespect towards their image and reputation. Obviously an individual gift to a family or friend would be pretty discrete compared to selling product. There are people out there helping themselves to others property on line and openly selling it. I also know there are people in our craft who have received the "cease and desist or face legal action" letters from corporations.
 
For the one minute aspect I feel reasonably comfortable with what I've looked up: We are allowed to use the NASA logo(s), due to it being a tax payer funded agency.
 
Thanks all. That's exactly like the type of "advice" I was looking for and it pretty much confirms my assumptions as well. I'm sure there will be things that I think are really cool, but I will likely refrain from sharing them online -- to reduce the footprint for any transgressions and to avoid raising too much contention or controversy. - Dave
 
Here's my experience with that topic. My feelings are if you don't copy an item you're not stealing. That's not the legal case. I made several pens using real cigar bands. Opus X is a popular brand. Opus X contacted Etsy and said it was copyright infringement so they took them down. Nothing was reproduced. The same is true with Disney and Ducks Unlimited. As far as universities and a few pro sports teams as long as it's in "Good Tastes " and not sold they don't care. They just want their price of the pie if money is involved. I do know that several universities have a hobby license if you're interested in that. Not all companies are greedy. Some have told me I can do what I want just don't copy it. I used to solder hat pins and tie tacks to pen clips. A company that made them said I could use them and sell them as long as I didn't try to reproduce what they made. I make tons of college pens and stands and they're all ok with it as long as they're not sold. I make them as gifts. As far as tax payer entities go they're not free to use. You need permission to copy postage stamps and military logos. I don't know about all of them just those. As mentioned earlier this is a sticky subject.
 
Even with tax supported organizations, you have to be careful. A few years ago there were several pen blanks and inserts for bottle stoppers on the market with military emblems on them. The US Air Force had a copyright on their logo and sent a "cease and desist" letter to the creator. I have seen some since then that clearly state "Licensed by ..." the appropriate military organization.
 
MTViper said:
Even with tax supported organizations, you have to be careful. A few years ago there were several pen blanks and inserts for bottle stoppers on the market with military emblems on them. The US Air Force had a copyright on their logo and sent a "cease and desist" letter to the creator. I have seen some since then that clearly state "Licensed by ..." the appropriate military organization.
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Regarding licensing, from dealings with the Department of Defense/Department of the Army about four years ago come this 'anecdote'. All military insignia, unit crests, division patches, awards, medals, etc, etc, etc., are protected. The hoops one was required to jump through were considerable, expensive, and involved. I accept and understand it as fair that DA (or any holder/originator of rights to such material) want to be sure they are not dealing with some fly by night operation; and that they have a significant interest in protecting the integrity of those materials. As an Army veteran, I started the process. However, as a one man operation, it became oppressive. Deciding that it was unlikely that sales of such items (writing instruments and bottle stoppers, predominantly) would ever justify the required steps, much less recoup the expense; I gave up on it. More power to those who legitimately secure licensing agreements. Consternation, befuddlement, and exposure to those who do not.

(EDIT) It made no difference whether the items were for private use, gifting, or sale. It was made clear, should DA discover any perceived infringement, that legal action would be taken.
 
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MTViper said:
Even with tax supported organizations, you have to be careful. A few years ago there were several pen blanks and inserts for bottle stoppers on the market with military emblems on them. The US Air Force had a copyright on their logo and sent a "cease and desist" letter to the creator. I have seen some since then that clearly state "Licensed by ..." the appropriate military organization.
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Fair enough.
My source for NASA logo use was from someone who works at NASA. I never did get a response to my inquiry to their PR department.
 
Dave - as Kenny mentioned many universities have hobbyist licenses that allow you to use their licensed/copyrighted material legally. As a guy who was raised in the Heartland (iykyk) I did research getting the license from the Huskers but they only allow it for Nebraska residents. It's actually a pretty simple process to get approved.

I did not do the search to find the original post but someone here on IAP also got a similar license from Michigan State this spring or late winter.

As far as the legality of the other items? I don't even pretend to be a lawyer so I couldn't tell ya.
 
These discussions can get quite opiniated and heated. Here is my personal policy. I have license to use every image I use commercially. I download a copy of the license when I download the image. Most of the images I use come with the license. Others require an "Upgrade fee" to use it commercially. I purchased the majority of the images I use, others were no charge. There is plenty of material out there for use without resorting to using someone's intellectual property.

Something to think about: The pen blanks that I sell are obviously going to be used by penmakers to make pens. Many of those pens will be offered for sale. So if I violate someone's intellectual property right and sell a blank containing an image I cannot legally use, then the purchaser makes a pen out of it and sells it they are also, maybe unwittingly, in violation.
 
This was my reply from USAF Licensing:

Jerry,


Thank you for contacting the Air &Space Forces Intellectual Property Management Office.

All licenses do require at least three years in business.

We recommend using generic patriotic images, such as an American Flag, American eagle or silhouette of a soldier until there is a three-year business history you can submit with your application.

Thank you contacting us on this matter. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Very respectfully,



The Air & Space Forces IP Management Team

Air Force Public Affairs Agency

Comm: 210-652-6058 (DSN: 665-6058)

 
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