Hesitating

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Big

Big

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From the time that I became interested in pen making through now I have been hesitant or nervous about CA finishing. And, I have yet to even attempt it. I have read about and it and watched numerous videos about it. My reluctance is partly due to mishaps with gluing tubes in and not getting them in the correct position before having the CA setting up forever locking the tube in whatever position it ends up resting in. Then, I can't seem to wrap my head around the application aspect to the blank while it is on the mandrel or lathe after having been sanded out. I have seen the "floating" process and slightly understand that one must use minimum pressure when rubbing the paper towel back and forth.

If I am understanding it correctly, you should add about 3 coats of CA in the build up process before you start sanding it out? And then, is it best to start at about the 400 grit level with sanding or strictly use MM for that?

Then, I worry about about the "cracking" issue that I am seeing referenced. If you have sanded, and finished correctly, what would cause the CA to crack in the curing or drying process after having been finished? And, are some CA glues better than others or is that really even an issue? Or, do you use certain CA glues for the tubes and others for finishes, etc.?

I know that this has probably been covered many times but I seem to understand things better if I know the steps, order of steps, and why things are done specifically.

Thanks in advance for helping me understand this better. Have a fantastic day my friends and keep on turning.

Big
 
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Big, I have bought all the stuff for CA Finishing, but like you have been a bit nervous to jump into it.. Maybe someone will post a "for dummies" for us new guys that break it down in very simple terms... There are lots of posts here on it, but like you I still have quite a few questions!!

Just a post saying that it isn't just you! :)
 
Here is the technique I used to learn CA finishing.....

Take one plain wood blank and cut for two barrels. You can either prep for a pen with tube if you intend to make a pen, or leave out the tube if you don't.

Mount one blank on the mandrel. Turn one blank just round (ie not down to the bushings). Go through your finishing technique. Write down what you did. Set the barrel aside and repeat for the second barrel. Write down what you did for the second barrel. Now compare the two. Which looks better? Take the one that looks worse, and mount it. Turn off just the finish and repeat the above process 10 or 12 times.

By the time you have done this you will see what works for you and what doesn't. Unfortunately there are many ways & variations to apply CA. I saw others do a finish and it came out great, but it didn't work for me.
 
I watched a ton of youtube videos which helped the most. Other than that a lot of practice.

I typically use about 6 thin and 6 medium coats. Had more trouble with thick CA. plano_harry did a great tutorial in the library using 20 thin coats that's worth checking out.

Removing bushings helped me a lot to sand and finish. Either between centers or with the delrin bushings that many vendors sell is the way I do it.

I mostly use Pens Plus these days but CA is a great finish to have in your arsenal IMO.
 
There are probably as many methods to applying a CA finish as there are members on this forum. My very 1st pen was a CA finish. It didn't turn out great, but it impressed my family.

Here's my basic method:

I use about 5 coats of thin CA, then 5 coats of medium CA.
I LIGHTLY wet sand with 400 till all the ridges are gone. You can tell when there are no shiny spots on the blank. Then I lightly sand the blank lengthwise. Then I go through the 1st 4 MM pads, then buff with my 3 wheel buffing system. You can also just go through all the MM pads.

Don't be afraid of CA finishes. Just do some on cheap blanks till you feel comfortable.
You get knowledge by reading.
You get experience by doing.
 
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There are a lot of different ways to do a CA finish, and you will develop your own over time. Given this I will not go into great detail on my method but there are a few basic strategies that I use.

Prep the surface. Make sure all tool marks are sanded out and grain filled. You need a good foundation before you start to lay a finish down.

Use many thin coats and let them dry completely in between. I use 10-15 coats of Medium CA. IMO Thin coats and adequate drying time will do more to eliminate cracking problems than any other action.

If the CA starts to clump up or give you ridges, you are probably violating either the thin coat or drying time rule. The smoother the CA goes on, the less sanding you have to do and you can start with a higher grit.

Do not sand/polish the CA until it has cured. I usually wait overnight. Even on cured CA, reduce your lathe speed and use light pressure to limit the amount of heat generated. I sometimes wet sand CA, but this can cause problems if the ends of the blank are not sealed.

My advice is to jump right in and see what works best for you. Try some different applicators, CA/BLO, some with accelerator, some without, etc. Keep what works. If you don't want to waste a pen kit on learning, turn a blank round and practice on that. You can always turn the finish off and start over.

One word of warning, CA is sensitive to heat and humidity, so what works on a nice clear dry day may not work on a cold rainy day so you have to adjust, and sometimes just wait until the weather changes.

Good Luck! Seeing the progress you have made turning pens, I expect you will pick it up fairly quickly.
 
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Hi Big, and also Steve!

You're probably overthinking the whole process thing. First of all, there is no"one" right way to do this. There are lots of good ways. Try different ways, and relax! It's just another finish. I like the idea of using a practice spindle, and trying different things. The more you do a CA finish, the better you will be at applying it, and the nicer it will look!

Just invest an afternoon to play with CA. Don't get too serious about it, it's not rocket science! Just try different things and have fun. After you do ten or fifteen it will become much simpler, and you can begin to choose what works best for you.

CA makes for one of the most durable finishes. It is worth figuring out how to do it so you have it in your arsenal. I have pens over ten years old with CA finishes that still look new. But it's just another finish! Don't let it stress you out. Just turn on some music, and get to practicing!

Scott.
 
Thanks so much for the insight. I greatly appreciate all the help with this issue. I will most certainly be working on doing this. Tom (kovlacik), it is extremely humid here in Pensacola, FL and I have no doubt that it will greatly affect my CA efforts until I get the window AC unit up and running in my garage/shop. With that in mind, I might wait until I do get the AC unit in before starting the CA process. I have been using Pens Plus until now and love it. I just thought that I should also be proficient with CA should the need arise.
 
Check the vdeo's on you tube. There is also a DVD that was put out about the CA finish. IMHO he goes a little over board with 20 coats but his method I use.
 
Big,
You have several great answers here and all will work... as said don't be afraid of the CA, it's a NIKE thing, Just do it.... then you will see through trial and error what works for you.

I've used the Ca finish off and on for quite some time now and sometimes I get a good finish, sometimes I get crap... might depend on the weather, my mood that day, or any number of other factors... as a rule though it turns out pretty good.

I don't use a paper towel to apply the CA... too much soaks into the towel and is wasted... just my cheap self there.... I use a little 1 x 2 strip of the foam that comes wrapped around electronics... it's thin, flexible and doesn't absorb the CA... too much on the plastic will run off on to your fingers, so you want to be cautious there..

I don't use thin Ca at all in my finish, just the medium, swiping it back and forth the length of the tube making sure I have a good even coat from end to end.... I normally will to five to eight coats in fairly rapid succession, then wet sand starting at about 220 up thru 800 grit, making sure I have no sanding marks before I change grits... I'll wipe down with the water between grits to inspect the process... you can go higher on your sanding grits, some do, I haven't found it necessary myself. As a final step, I use two applications of HUT plastic polish (or some use McQuire's auto polish) to polish off the finish.

If you have trouble with gluing the bushings to the tube and I did in the beginning, I suggest using Delrin bushings since the CA won't stick to the Delrin... you'll have to make your own.... or as I do... turn between centers and the 60 deg drive and live center are usually recessed enough that I can keep from getting the CA on them.

This is just my method and you will develop your own steps and methods... I do have to say it took me a couple of months before I found the method that worked for me.
 
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There are some excellent answers here, I tend toward those who are saying "just do it," try something then something else, eventually you will find a way that works for you. Being highly resistant to reading recipes, following directions, or using formulas for anything, my natural tendency is to experiment.

I won't go into my method of applying CA other than to say that I don't sand at all after applying CA, and I don't use accelerator. I apply CA and then take the item directly to the buffing wheel while it is still hot. I mostly turn resin. In a year I only make several hundred antler or wood pens that I finish with CA.

I disagree with the generalization that there are as many different ways to apply CA as there are pen turners on this forum. I think there are MORE ways to apply CA than there are pen turners.
 
Im very green at this but Ive been very happy with my results. I agree practice and experience will be better than any tutorial but you do ha e to ha e some kind of starting spot.

What I do goes like this... sand blank up to 400 grit. Apply 4-6 coats of thin ca with a paper towel, spraying a light mist of activator after every coat and WIPE excess activator off with clean paper towel before applying the next coat. After the first 4-6 coats dry sand with 400 grit, make sure all the shiny areas are removed. Rinse and repeat. Another 4-6 coats as above, sand again with 400 or 600 depending on the surface. Rinse and repeat once more. When you are fairly happy with the build you can then sand again 400 or 600 but continue to 800. I then wet sand with micromesh up through 12000. I finish off with novus #2. You can use a buffing wheel with white diamond if an ultra shine is desired, but I've never went that far.

I do everything from sanding applying finish and polishing without changing the lathe speed from 2400. Be careful and use a light touch sanding and be extra cautious not to overheat anything. I like to use a powered sander (2inch foam pad attached to drill) for sanding and it seems to help keep the heat down, sands more evenly, and greatly reduces sanding time. Some may scoff at using a power sander for something small as a pen but it works for me.
 
When I apply the CA, I hold a papertowel against the blank on the underside while I drip the ca directly on the blank moving from once side to the other. Unless I get heavy handed with the CA it flows out nicely. If you get too much you will see ridges form in the wet CA. This is the only time I would go back over the blank with the paper towel when applying the CA. If it looks like it flowed out well I dont do the "back and forth" method as sometimes it starts to cure and will grab the papertowel, embedding small papertowel fibers in the finish. If I have a grabby incident I usually stop there and sand a little again until the blank is uniformly dull.
 
Big said:
Thanks so much for the insight. I greatly appreciate all the help with this issue. I will most certainly be working on doing this. Tom (kovlacik), it is extremely humid here in Pensacola, FL and I have no doubt that it will greatly affect my CA efforts until I get the window AC unit up and running in my garage/shop. With that in mind, I might wait until I do get the AC unit in before starting the CA process. I have been using Pens Plus until now and love it. I just thought that I should also be proficient with CA should the need arise.
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I live literally on the beach in south texas, It is extremely humid here. I do everything i do under a popup canopy in the front yard. Don't let the humidity deter ya any :)
 
I won't go into what I do because as mentioned before there are several ways to do it. I basically do the same as the others and tweaked it to soot my ability. Like said before jump in there and practice on something you can turn down or sand and start over. The main reason for my reply is that you said you were concerned about using c.a. because of trouble gluing tubes when you first started. I am assuming you still glue the tubes in before you turn therefore you must have gotten better with practice. The same thing here. When I show someone how to turn, yes there are some that desperate to let me teach them, after watching me they are still nervous and have trouble with things. For some reason they can't grasp that if I can do it anyone can. So jump in there and give it a try.
 
Big said:
Tom (kovlacik), it is extremely humid here in Pensacola, FL and I have no doubt that it will greatly affect my CA efforts until I get the window AC unit up and running in my garage/shop. With that in mind, I might wait until I do get the AC unit in before starting the CA process.
Click to expand...

I would not wait. If high humidity is the norm, then you will have to develop a method that works with your conditions. My comment was more to let you know that if suddenly things don't work after they were going pretty good, it is not always your fault.
 
Thanks so much everyone. You have given me tons of useful and helpful information to digest. Please help me at any point, it is greatly appreciated for sure.

Tom, the humidity and heat won't stop me in the least. I have a fan right now but will be putting a window AC unit in the wall soon. When my friends and family in Louisville, KY are shivering and fighting the snow this Winter, I will smile and be happy that I am in Florida.
 
Big,
Go to PSI's web site and check out their video on CA. I think it is called "you won't believe this finish". It was the first CA finish I tried. One of the main differences is they suggest applying the CA with the lathe off. You rotate the shaft by hand. After awhile you'll move on and try different methods of applying the CA.

By the way, I enjoy watching your pen making skills evolve. Keep it up.

Seven
 
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A plus to Sharon's tip. Using boiled linseed oil as a lubricant with ca will give you every bit as good a finish as the wet sanding method. Is much easier to do. And takes a lot less work. All my ca finishes are done this way. The one mistake I see made most often with this method is not rubbing the pen long enough with enough movement. People seem to think the towel is going to stick to the blank as the ca dries it won't. It also holds up very well I i haven't had any cracking problems once I went to satalite city's ca.
 
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