Decline of the signature?

[Carl Fisher]

So as I watch my oldest boys grow up, now 10 and 12, I'm amazed at how simple things we take for granted now are not emphasized on the new generation.

Now both of my boys know (or knew at one time) how to read and write cursive. They were taught by private schools at a very young age and reinforced at home. In fact my oldest had absolutely wonderful handwriting...5 years ago.

The last several occasions where I've asked them to sign a greeting card, my jaw dropped when I saw thier "signature" now. Unless otherwise specified, it's (not very neatly) printed. If I call out to use cursive before they put the pen to the card, what comes out is horrid. No flow, angle between lettering is all over the place, and generally looks like a 2 year old scribbling.

Are we as a society just assuming that the days of something as common place as a signature are going away? Most credit/debit cards do not require signatures anymore for less than a certain $$ amount (this irks me to no end). Checks are being deposited by picture alone with no need for endorsement. Documents are starting to be electronically signed through challenge questions/answers. We recently closed on a refinance that required zero signature from us. It was all done electronically. I'm assuming next up you'll be able to electronically thumb print payment or hard copy documents in place of a signature.

Will my 4-month old daughter learn how to write at all if I don't personally teach her or will it all be typing and digital corespondance?

Just curious what your collective thoughts are.

 

[edicehouse]

I honestly think they do not teach cursive in school anymore.

 

[Justturnin]

Your words cut deep Carl :frown:...... I am super guilty of this. My handwriting is horrible and always has been. I blame it on being a lefty but I am sure its just me.

 

[Carl Fisher]

I've been following a lot of the press about schools doing away with cursive. It's true that they are and my one sticking point that nobody can answer is "how will they sign their name when necessary"?

I'm not against advancing technology. The IT industry has treated me very well for the last 19 years. However some of what is being discarded in favor of technology is part of what makes us an educated society. If they still force kids to learn long division and multiplication of fractions when a calculator or computer is typically sitting right next to them, why should writing be treated differently?

 

[monark88]

teach cursive

I honestly think they do not teach cursive in school anymore.

Interesting.
My youngest granddaughter, when in the second grade began writing in cursive. The teacher sent a note home stating that she would not be allowed to write in cursive and that she must first print before continuing on to cursive writing. Furthermore, cursive wasn't allowed until the 3rd or 4th grade level, depending on the child's abilities to lean cursive.

The good thing to come out of that, following a heated discussion between said teacher and my daughter was that my granddaughter was sent to private school the following year. (writing limitations and other mediocrity limiting things).

Little wonder why writing has been minimalized.

IMO Russ

 

[tbroye]

I took a lot of Drafting Classes in High School and College and learned how to print I also took typing. I typed most of my papers so Cursive went out the window for me in my teens. My penmanship used to be pretty good but now with Carpel Tunnel it is hard to write in cursive or print for that matter. We learned to write in cursive with a dip pen with the old inkwell in the desk. My 4th grade granddaughter doesn't write in cursive she prints, that is what she was taught. By the looks of her printing she would have beautiful handwriting. I think it is like so many things that have be phased out of life the last couple of decades and not always for the better.

 

[lyonsacc]

I have heard of a few schools that have cut cursive and replaced it with typing. The school my kids go to teaches it in 3rd grade. Most of my 7th graders homework is required to be in cursive. When I drop her off at her classroom in the morning I see her teacher slumped over her desk with her nose about 3 inches from her desktop trying to read and grade homework . . .

 

[Chasper]

The schools don't teach cursive, so it is hard to read the handwriting of young people.
They don't teach typing, kids figure out keyboarding on their own.
They don't teach woodworking or sewing anymore, those are valuable skills.
They don't teach Latin, so kids miss out on the building blocks of language.
But they do teach writing composition in a more advanced way than I learned.
They teach high school Biology at a level well above what I learned in college.
They teach foreign languages with greater emphasis than I ever knew.
They teach high school math at levels college math majors didn't know 30 years ago.

I can print neatly, write cursive with a nice flair, write calligraphy elegantly,
but I wish I had learned a little more math and science somewhere in the 18 years I went to school.
Cursive will be missed, but I think we will get along fine without it.

 

[Russianwolf]

My handwriting is completely legible.

In English its print, and in Russian it is cursive.

I can not write in English cursive any longer or in Russian print. My brain has separated them that way for some reason. If I try to write in cursive English within about 5 words it becomes either print English or cursive Russian. Sometimes in the middle of the word.

My signature is illegible and intended to be that way. Very few people would even attempt to forge my signature because they can't understand what exactly I'm trying to write.

 

[JohnGreco]

Cursive is not part of the new national "common core" standards, and as a result many schools are dropping it. I am happy to say my 3rd grade daughter is learning cursive in school, though. I was in her class earlier this week with a dip pen and a fountain pen for them each to try. I wanted them to feel some magic in cursive and hope it helps fuel their desire to continue using it after it is no longer mandatory. They were REALLY into it, and were blown away by the video I showed them of copperplating.

Incidentally, they are also teaching typing, or "keyboarding" as it is now known. Common core tests will be administered electronically, so keyboard familiarity will be extremely important 3rd grade and above.

 

[Daju]

Just to add to the discussion. I am a recently retired project manager for a large Architectural/Engineering firm. I started out as a drafter/designer by serving a 4 year apprenticeship. I found I had " the skill" in 7th grade. My cursive was pretty good but nothing extraordinary. Once in HS I took physics and shop. (the advisiors all thought I was nuts. Back in '66 you were either going to college to be a teacher or end up working in the refineries or at the docks. No one ever thought about engineering) anyway, I forgot how to write cursive my senior year. In fact I got a C on an A grade English assignment because I printed it. So 43 years later I can sign my name and that's it. I regret not being able to write cursive. It is faster, more artful and more creative. Like all things in the arts, there just doesn't seem to be room in the school curriculum any more.

 

[Haynie]

national "common core" standards,

There is no such thing as "national standards". The federal government had nothing to do with them. They were created through a multi state partnership, as a means to build equality among standards throughout the country. For the most part students migrating between states had terribly varying levels of knowledge. When the Common Core is fully implemented in those states that adopted them, this won't be the case. This teacher thinks it is about time.

As for cursive, I have no opinion. Never could write it legibly. Failed penmanship every year it was graded.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Signatures are really only needed for legal documents - but that's likely still old thinking - Digital signatures are the wave of the future - there's going to be a point where a digital passport is going to be accepted in lieu of a scratch on paper - social security number and a click of a button.

Wearing my realist hat, fountain pens (optimized for cursive) are already somewhat of a nostalgic item - cursive handwriting is going to be much like calligraphy or cueinform at one point. From a nostalgic point of view, however, I still have a rotary phone at home...but I still print instead of writing, because I never saw the utility of linking my letters when taught in school..(I guess I was rather stubborn).

Rambling aside, I don't really see that cursive writing is a necessity in the modern era - but just because it's not necessary, doesn't mean it's not 'neat' (speaking here as someone with a philosophy degree and basic understanding of Latin and Ancient Greek)

 

[ashaw]

They still teach cursive writing in our elementary school. I supply fountain pens to the winners of their essay contests. The kids still seem to enjoy writing.

 

[TellicoTurning]

My handwriting is completely legible.

In English its print, and in Russian it is cursive.

I can not write in English cursive any longer or in Russian print. My brain has separated them that way for some reason. If I try to write in cursive English within about 5 words it becomes either print English or cursive Russian. Sometimes in the middle of the word.

My signature is illegible and intended to be that way. Very few people would even attempt to forge my signature because they can't understand what exactly I'm trying to write.

Actually, I've been told that signatures that are not legible and just scrawled are much easier to forge than those who have a very legible and distinguishable signature. My last boss manually signed every paycheck on payday... we had between 50 and 200 employees, depending on how busy we were and what contracts we were working... his first signature and his last could almost be overlaid and would be perfectly matched... it would be very difficult to match his signature.... mine on the other hand is kinda scrawled.

If I stop and take the time, I can write cursive reasonably legibly but I can print almost faster than I can write cursive and I can type about 5 times faster than I can write. I took business typing in high school and almost failed because we were graded on speed and even though I typed over 45 words per minute then, the "standard" in the class was about 70 or 80 and we even had a couple of girls that could type over 120 words per minute in a sustained 5 minute test. My high school held the championship in the state scholastic meets for about 10 years running.... my speed picked up in the navy when I ran telex circuits and at one time could drop a tape loop from a model 31 telex machine put it into the TD and if no distractions, I could maintain the loop for about 20 minutes before the machine would catch up to me....

 

[Smitty37]

The schools don't teach cursive, so it is hard to read the handwriting of young people.
They don't teach typing, kids figure out keyboarding on their own.
They don't teach woodworking or sewing anymore, those are valuable skills.
They don't teach Latin, so kids miss out on the building blocks of language.
But they do teach writing composition in a more advanced way than I learned.
They teach high school Biology at a level well above what I learned in college.
They teach foreign languages with greater emphasis than I ever knew.
They teach high school math at levels college math majors didn't know 30 years ago.

I can print neatly, write cursive with a nice flair, write calligraphy elegantly,
but I wish I had learned a little more math and science somewhere in the 18 years I went to school.
Cursive will be missed, but I think we will get along fine without it.

You have got to be kidding.

I don't know where you went to college or what you studied but no high school student today is studying any of the math that I took in college with the exception that some might get beginning calculus.

I don't know how they can be learning a lot that is very advanced in composition...judging by the way they write on the internet, they can't spell, they don't write complete sentences, they know almost nothing about punctuation, they don't know the difference between verbs and nouns. The list just goes on and on.

Biology - I'm not too aware of what they are teaching over all but, I do know they are still using evolution models used when I was in high school sixty years ago. Several of them have long since been known to be just flat out wrong, yet they are still there.

My personal opinion is that education has become a mile wide and half-an-inch deep.

 

[TellicoTurning]

The schools don't teach cursive, so it is hard to read the handwriting of young people.
They don't teach typing, kids figure out keyboarding on their own.
They don't teach woodworking or sewing anymore, those are valuable skills.
They don't teach Latin, so kids miss out on the building blocks of language.
But they do teach writing composition in a more advanced way than I learned.
They teach high school Biology at a level well above what I learned in college.
They teach foreign languages with greater emphasis than I ever knew.
They teach high school math at levels college math majors didn't know 30 years ago.

I can print neatly, write cursive with a nice flair, write calligraphy elegantly,
but I wish I had learned a little more math and science somewhere in the 18 years I went to school.
Cursive will be missed, but I think we will get along fine without it.

You have got to be kidding.

I don't know where you went to college or what you studied but no high school student today is studying any of the math that I took in college with the exception that some might get beginning calculus.

I don't know how they can be learning a lot that is very advanced in composition...judging by the way they write on the internet, they can't spell, they don't write complete sentences, they know almost nothing about punctuation, they don't know the difference between verbs and nouns. The list just goes on and on.

Biology - I'm not too aware of what they are teaching over all but, I do know they are still using evolution models used when I was in high school sixty years ago. Several of them have long since been known to be just flat out wrong, yet they are still there.

My personal opinion is that education has become a mile wide and half-an-inch deep.

I think you may have been overly generous with your estimation of today's education levels.

 

[Carl Fisher]

I'm just glad nobody has called out my spelling issues in the main post :biggrin:

Luckily most of them are typing errors. I type too fast mentally for my fingers to keep up with sometimes.

 

[Crashmph]

my speed picked up in the navy when I ran telex circuits and at one time could drop a tape loop from a model 31 telex machine put it into the TD and if no distractions, I could maintain the loop for about 20 minutes before the machine would catch up to me....

From one Radioman to another... that is impressive.

 

[PSNCO]

My son gave a set of pens to a couple that are friends through his other hobby of PEZ collecting. They asked him to sign it. I cringed, knowing how poor his handwriting is. He signed it with his initials of TJK as more of a symbol with the J and K intertwined with the T. That he said was his signature on anything unofficial. (It's more legible than his legal signature.

 

[Chasper]

Every year or two I read one of your posts and agree with you, maybe not that frequently. I couldn't disagree any stronger on this one. I taught high school senior comp in 1970 and what my kids were taught two years ago was much more advanced. They took calculus II in high school, studied genetics in biology.

The schools don't teach cursive, so it is hard to read the handwriting of young people.
They don't teach typing, kids figure out keyboarding on their own.
They don't teach woodworking or sewing anymore, those are valuable skills.
They don't teach Latin, so kids miss out on the building blocks of language.
But they do teach writing composition in a more advanced way than I learned.
They teach high school Biology at a level well above what I learned in college.
They teach foreign languages with greater emphasis than I ever knew.
They teach high school math at levels college math majors didn't know 30 years ago.

I can print neatly, write cursive with a nice flair, write calligraphy elegantly,
but I wish I had learned a little more math and science somewhere in the 18 years I went to school.
Cursive will be missed, but I think we will get along fine without it.

You have got to be kidding.

I don't know where you went to college or what you studied but no high school student today is studying any of the math that I took in college with the exception that some might get beginning calculus.

I don't know how they can be learning a lot that is very advanced in composition...judging by the way they write on the internet, they can't spell, they don't write complete sentences, they know almost nothing about punctuation, they don't know the difference between verbs and nouns. The list just goes on and on.

Biology - I'm not too aware of what they are teaching over all but, I do know they are still using evolution models used when I was in high school sixty years ago. Several of them have long since been known to be just flat out wrong, yet they are still there.

My personal opinion is that education has become a mile wide and half-an-inch deep.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Teaching - the hardest profession that everyone thinks that they can do.

 

[dbledsoe]

I work in a community mental health clinic, and we hire a lot of bachelor's and master's level employees. It just amazes me how one can go through 18 years of school and never be taught to write a complete sentence or make one grammatically meaningful.
We had a junior English exam in college back in the day. If you did not pass that test you could not graduate. I don't know what they do now, but they don't teach writing, spelling, grammar or punctuation.

 

[Carl Fisher]

Andrew, I have nothing but respect for teachers. There are several in my family and I hear all of the stories.

What I don't always agree with is the curriculum that is forced on the students that many teachers don't even agree with. One of the (many) reasons we moved out of Florida when my boys were starting grade school was because the school system down there taught how to take tests. The FCAT numbers were the only things that mattered because it directly affected the $$ given to the schools and ultimately the teachers. The kids were not taught to think for themselves but rather be test smart.

 

[monark88]

IMHO, mediocritization is becoming the sought after education today. I'm overstating to make a, hopeful, point. Everyone would be taught cursive today, if everyone could write cursive at the same level. But, there's too much individualism in writing cursive.

I don't know if I believe in the statement, "education is a mile wide and an inch deep", but it has become mediocre to a large degree. Too many reasons to go into that here.

Too many times I have heard, "don't be bogged down by correct spelling issues, its getting the idea across that's important". Well, I suppose so, but clear communication and correct spelling gets the idea across much easier and more concise.

I once took a course in Teacher Education, where the professor allowed a litany of fragmented sentences, some without beginning caps in the sentences or absence of periods, to be passed off as college level writing. The Idea was what is important! I know, hard to believe.

Mediocrity continuing at the college level to be recycled at the public school levels.

I think the real problem allowing this to continue rests with us. We should make our displeasure know to the schools-time and time again.

As always, IMHO, only

russ

 

[walshjp17]

I was always amazed at the atrociously poor grammar and spelling, incomplete sentences and insistence on using Internet abbreviations some of the younger employees and sales personnel would use in communications (email, letters, memos, etc.) with internal departments, clients, suppliers and partners. What even made me more upset was mangers not bringing employees to task for their lack of professional, business language skills.

While this seemingly has nothing do do with Carl's OP concerning the loss of cursive skills, writing skills, whether putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard are how we communicate. I have seen cases of improper grammar completely changing the meaning of a offer letter resulting in a loss of business.

If the education system is to effectively teach our children to survive in an increasingly financially-focused and technical world, they are going to have to have a firm BASIC education which includes the ability to get an idea across to a specific audience in a way that is is unequivocally understood at first reading.

My $.02.

jpw

 

[Smitty37]

Teaching - the hardest profession that everyone thinks that they can do.

Nah....those who can do - those who can't teach.:biggrin::biggrin:

I have respect for teachers, two of my daughters are now high school principals but were teachers, one of my sisters was a teacher, three of my nieces are or were teachers (a couple are retired). I think, the same as those in almost any profession, teachers want to do a good job

That being said, I have long felt that the problems we (USA) have in our education system can be traced to leaving education too much in the hands of educators.

Teachers complain that schools are administered badly, a major reason that teachers leave the profession - yet the administrators are always (in the USA no one becomes a principal without having been a class room teacher)people who at one time were themselves class room teachers.

Teachers complain about being forced to "teach to the standardized tests", another major cause of teachers leaving the profession - yet the programs causing that were in large part developed by people who at one time or another were class room teachers themselves and traded their teaching certificate for a bureaucrat's hat Washington. The latest 'miracle' fix for education is called "common core" replacing "No Child Left Behind" which replaced something else.

Teachers complain about boards of education, yet the boards I am most familiar with always had at least one and ofter several members who were either active or retired teachers on them.

Virtually all of the problems that teachers themselves identify as "hurting" education were developed by educators.

Someone once said something like 'war is too important to leave in the hands of the generals'. I personally think education is too important to leave in the hands of educators. Which we have done.

 

[LagniappeRob]

Am I the only one who thought this had something to do with credit card processing from the title?

 

[LagniappeRob]

I went to private school through 1st grade and then unfortunately had to switch to public for 2nd. I was taught to write in cursive from the start, then at the switch on my 1st day of 2nd grade, I was told by the teacher that "I didn't know how to write" because I didn't know what printing was... I still remember to this day being made to feel like I was stupid in front of the class. My mother who worked with (but not part of) the school system, had a few choice words for her. I was switched to another class pretty quickly.

 

[USNR'03]

I honestly think they do not teach cursive in school anymore.

They don't in Virginia Beach

 

[monark88]

Teachers

Teaching - the hardest profession that everyone thinks that they can do.

Nah....those who can do - those who can't teach.:biggrin::biggrin:

I have respect for teachers, two of my daughters are now high school principals but were teachers, one of my sisters was a teacher, three of my nieces are or were teachers (a couple are retired). I think, the same as those in almost any profession, teachers want to do a good job

That being said, I have long felt that the problems we (USA) have in our education system can be traced to leaving education too much in the hands of educators.

Teachers complain that schools are administered badly, a major reason that teachers leave the profession - yet the administrators are always (in the USA no one becomes a principal without having been a class room teacher)people who at one time were themselves class room teachers.

Teachers complain about being forced to "teach to the standardized tests", another major cause of teachers leaving the profession - yet the programs causing that were in large part developed by people who at one time or another were class room teachers themselves and traded their teaching certificate for a bureaucrat's hat Washington. The latest 'miracle' fix for education is called "common core" replacing "No Child Left Behind" which replaced something else.

Teachers complain about boards of education, yet the boards I am most familiar with always had at least one and ofter several members who were either active or retired teachers on them.

Virtually all of the problems that teachers themselves identify as "hurting" education were developed by educators.

Someone once said something like 'war is too important to leave in the hands of the generals'. I personally think education is too important to leave in the hands of educators. Which we have done.

Smitty,
then you should know that to become an administrator, in Oregon, at least, one only has to have 3 years in the classroom to move on, plus doing an internship of one year in administration. Then a number years as a vice-principal.

Now, I have to ask, with a Teaching Degree and 3 years teaching experience,(it usually takes about 10 years to become an effective teacher), where in this does it say that a person has enough experience and knowledge to begin to develop curriculum, let alone be a manager of teachers?

Those who aspire to become principals know they must endure 3 years in the classroom. Those who aspire to become classroom teachers learn as much about their chosen discipline to become more effective teachers.

Moreover, and here is where I have almost always gotten into trouble(even with my wife), is that to become a teacher one does not have to have an intellectual academic degree. An academic Master's Degree is called a Master's of Education Degree for educators.

Most have entered into Teacher Education fresh out of high school. By the time they are 21 -23 they are teaching kids in the classroom. Experience? Are you serious! Some of these people go on to start their career in administration by the time they are 25-30. Again, Experience? Are you serious!

Yes, these are the ones who have "hurt" education, in part. Encourage more mature, experienced teachers to move into education. Also encourage mature folks who have been in the every day workplace and retired military to become teachers.

Thats not the only answer, just one.

IMHO Russ

 

[Haynie]

Smitty, your ignorance is showing again.

 

[Smitty37]

Every year or two I read one of your posts and agree with you, maybe not that frequently. I couldn't disagree any stronger on this one. I taught high school senior comp in 1970 and what my kids were taught two years ago was much more advanced. They took calculus II in high school, studied genetics in biology.

The schools don't teach cursive, so it is hard to read the handwriting of young people.
They don't teach typing, kids figure out keyboarding on their own.
They don't teach woodworking or sewing anymore, those are valuable skills.
They don't teach Latin, so kids miss out on the building blocks of language.
But they do teach writing composition in a more advanced way than I learned.
They teach high school Biology at a level well above what I learned in college.
They teach foreign languages with greater emphasis than I ever knew.
They teach high school math at levels college math majors didn't know 30 years ago.

I can print neatly, write cursive with a nice flair, write calligraphy elegantly,
but I wish I had learned a little more math and science somewhere in the 18 years I went to school.
Cursive will be missed, but I think we will get along fine without it.

You have got to be kidding.

I don't know where you went to college or what you studied but no high school student today is studying any of the math that I took in college with the exception that some might get beginning calculus.

I don't know how they can be learning a lot that is very advanced in composition...judging by the way they write on the internet, they can't spell, they don't write complete sentences, they know almost nothing about punctuation, they don't know the difference between verbs and nouns. The list just goes on and on.

Biology - I'm not too aware of what they are teaching over all but, I do know they are still using evolution models used when I was in high school sixty years ago. Several of them have long since been known to be just flat out wrong, yet they are still there.

My personal opinion is that education has become a mile wide and half-an-inch deep.

I have no idea what you taught in 1970 but I do know this:
I did not go to a particularily good high school, it was very small, not very well financed and there were many many better schools around. I took high school English Composition in 1951 -1955 and took a CLEP exam for freshman Freshman English in 1980 without any review - I scored in the 92nd percentile when compared to students taking the exam immediately after completing an appropriate Freshman English course. That dropped to the 85th percentile compared to students who took the exam in 1962. English was NOT my best (or even one of my better) subjects. That indicates to me that in 1980 colleges were teaching freshmen what they had learned in high school 25 years earlier.

In the late 1980's my daughter took advanced placement English courses in high school that did not go to the depth we did in the middle 1950s.


Of course we didn't learn much of anything about genetics in high school, nobody knew much about it at all until well into the 80's. DNA was only discovered in 1953. The gnome project didn't really get under way until at least the mid 90s. But - I'll wager that in biology your daughters were still shown at least two of the following:
1. Darwin's Tree of Life now known to be wrong.
2. the 4 or 5 pictures depicting the evolution of the horse in a manner now known to be wrong.
3. Haekel's hand drawn pictures illustrating various embryos and how "close" they are. These drawings have always been controversal now more than ever when so much better illustrations are available...yet they still appear in texts.

 

[JohnGreco]

Now, I have to ask, with a Teaching Degree and 3 years teaching experience,(it usually takes about 10 years to become an effective teacher), where in this does it say that a person has enough experience and knowledge to begin to develop curriculum, let alone be a manager of teachers?

Russ, not sure about Oregon, but here in NJ Principals are not developing curriculum. There are curriculum coordinators in each district who, at a minimum, typically need a Masters.

 

[dplloyd]

I have many pieces of paper with my mothers(1925-2012) beautiful handwriting on them. I've seen my younger family memebers, let's say 21 and under, handwriting and it is horrible.

 

[monark88]

curriculum

Now, I have to ask, with a Teaching Degree and 3 years teaching experience,(it usually takes about 10 years to become an effective teacher), where in this does it say that a person has enough experience and knowledge to begin to develop curriculum, let alone be a manager of teachers?

Russ, not sure about Oregon, but here in NJ Principals are not developing curriculum. There are curriculum coordinators in each district who, at a minimum, typically need a Masters.

actually, the same here. But...the C. Developers usually have been teachers and some are still teachers who act as developers. One of my points? is that teaching master's are not an academic master's degree, but a specialized version for teachers as a stand apart...from academic degrees. Lesser requirements? I'll let others chose for themselves on that one.

 

[LagniappeRob]

I don't accept just because someone has an advanced degree that they're capable anymore. I used to think that - then I got a team member that had a Master's in Comp Sci and was teaching who couldn't program their way out of a wet bag.

 

[Smitty37]

Smitty, your ignorance is showing again.

Your's too, I don't get personal if you think something I said is wrong pleae be man enough to explain rather than indulge in name calling.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Ok, time to step back from this discussion and remember that name-calling, attacks, and political discussion (and teaching discussions can get rather political), are not allowed via the rules.

Andrew
assistant moderator

 

[Smitty37]

I don't accept just because someone has an advanced degree that they're capable anymore. I used to think that - then I got a team member that had a Master's in Comp Sci and was teaching who couldn't program their way out of a wet bag.

Al least some states now require that teachers get a masters degree to keep their certification. New York (and I think Maryland) being among them. Both of my Daughters had Masters Degrees before they left the class room and both were in the class room for about 10 years before their first administrative appointment. In addition, the first administrative appointment of one was in a Teacher Development (mentoring) position and the other was in Curriculum Development.