Turning between centers vs. mandrel?

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rickjake

rickjake

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Joined
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Hi everyone, I recently watched a video:smile: Not much to do when your laid up, recovering! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6wTnychR1U The gentleman says that turning between centers with dedicated bushings(not the kit assembly bushings) is way easier than using a mandrel. What are the pros and cons to turning between center(Dead center and Live center) versus MT pen mandrel? Looks to me like the way to go? Just have to buy a different set for each pen kit. Any thoughts one way or another?

Thanks friends,

Rick
 
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I switched to TBC several years ago and have never looked back. The only drawback would be you can only turn one barrel at a time, which is no problem IMHO.
 
Well I didn't say it was better in my post at all I just said it is what I do. Since you asked though I find that the flex of the mandrel and make things a bit more unstable in my opinion. I also like the bushings that i get from JohnnyCNC and Laserlinez that are much more precision made than the mass produced bushings that I get from other sources. I also find that concentrating on a single barrel forces me to not be in any sort of hurry to get to the second barrel. It is just what I like. I am sure there are others that like the mandrel and this post is not to say that they are wrong just I am different.
 
I would like to try turning between the centers but are having trouble tracking down a 60 degree "dead centre" for the drive side. I have a 60 degree live centre.
Any suggestions
 
SerenityWoodWorks said:
ON the same topic...sorta....Anyone have any luck converting all their bushings over to TBC by countersinking the hole with a 60degree bit?
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Yes it works just fine. I use my metal lathe to drill them out but if the bushing is way off to begin with I would not use it even if I did drill the angle into it. They are not nearly as nice as JohnnyCNC's bushings.
 
mikespenturningz said:
Well I didn't say it was better in my post at all I just said it is what I do. Since you asked though I find that the flex of the mandrel and make things a bit more unstable in my opinion. I also like the bushings that i get from JohnnyCNC and Laserlinez that are much more precision made than the mass produced bushings that I get from other sources. I also find that concentrating on a single barrel forces me to not be in any sort of hurry to get to the second barrel. It is just what I like. I am sure there are others that like the mandrel and this post is not to say that they are wrong just I am different.
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Like Mike, that is why I switched.

SerenityWoodWorks said:
ON the same topic...sorta....Anyone have any luck converting all their bushings over to TBC by countersinking the hole with a 60degree bit?
Click to expand...
This can be done, and I hve done it may times. The only thing to watch out for is that the hole in the mass produced bushings may be off center. To compensate, I rough turn with the bushings in place. Once I get close to the final diameter, I remove the bushings and just mount the barrel between centers and finish the last little bit, sand and then finish the pen. This will eliminate sanding the bushings down and the CA will not be on the bushings.
 
I'd love to order some of the JohnnyCNC bushings but all the ones I'd need are sold out.

For now I'll just put the tubes straight between centers and use my caliper.

- Rich
 
even if you don't TBC I would highly recommend finishing between centres if you use a CA finish. makes it so much easier to make sure that the edges of your piece come out the way you want them.
 
mikebpeters said:
even if you don't TBC I would highly recommend finishing between centres if you use a CA finish. makes it so much easier to make sure that the edges of your piece come out the way you want them.
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Total agree with this, plus it's much easier to remove the tube from the centers rather then gluing the bushings on :D
 
I have tried the TBC, and IMHO my favorite way is to use a mandrel with a mandrel saver. Using the mandrel saver all the pressure from the tail stock goes on the bushings and you get no flex at all. This is just my preferred way of turning pens.
 
mikespenturningz said:
Well I didn't say it was better in my post at all I just said it is what I do. Since you asked though I find that the flex of the mandrel and make things a bit more unstable in my opinion. I also like the bushings that i get from JohnnyCNC and Laserlinez that are much more precision made than the mass produced bushings that I get from other sources. I also find that concentrating on a single barrel forces me to not be in any sort of hurry to get to the second barrel. It is just what I like. I am sure there are others that like the mandrel and this post is not to say that they are wrong just I am different.
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Thanks Mike, That's what I was thinking exactly, concentrate on one barrel at a time. I checked out JohnnyCNC looks like high quality equipment. Will check Laserlinez:smile:

Cheers

-Rick
 
One problem with only between centers is if you want to turn a 7mm pen. I am not sure if there are any bushings for them? Does anyone else have an answer for this? I never turn any 7mm pens anymore or have not needed to turn any for a long time.

Also I have not use a mandrel saver so cannot comment on them other than to say that I have also seen other posts that like them.
 
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mikespenturningz said:
One problem with only between centers is if you want to turn a 7mm pen. I am not sure if there are any bushings for them? Does anyone else have an answer for this? I never turn any 7mm pens anymore or have not needed to turn any for a long time.

Also I have not use a mandrel saver so cannot comment on them other than to say that I have also seen other posts that like them.
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JohnCNC makes 7mm TBC bushings.
 
mikespenturningz said:
One problem with only between centers is if you want to turn a 7mm pen. I am not sure if there are any bushings for them? Does anyone else have an answer for this? I never turn any 7mm pens anymore or have not needed to turn any for a long time.

Also I have not use a mandrel saver so cannot comment on them other than to say that I have also seen other posts that like them.
Click to expand...

I've been able to just turn 7mm pens between centers, though I think JohnnyCNC has a bushing option for 7mm.
 
Reading this entire thread, it boils down to this:
The bushings made for turning between centers are more accurate than the mass produced bushings!! ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

And you will need a different set for each pen type you turn. These are far superior in quality and cost more.

So, if you plan to concentrate on a few pen styles, the expense of special bushings is no big deal. If you want to turn LOTS of different pens (or just want to try a kit or two to see if you like it), the cost of bushings will raise your "price of entry".

FWIW!!
Ed
 
Perhaps a minority opinion , but bushings are totally optional . All pen styles that I turn . including slims , can be turned between 60 degree centers directly driving the tubed blank . Minor flaring of the tube ends will occur . leaving the material on the ends marginally thinner , which isn`t critical on most pens or materials . On those materials which are , such as Corian . many deliberately chamfer the blank ends to minimize failure during insertion anyway .

I have Johnny CNC`s bushings for all of the pen styles that I turn , but only use them to set my calipers .
 
I was thinking the flaring could be a problem, but as you point out, it it's stays just at the end I can't really see an issue with it. I suppose insertion would be easier that way.
I guess doing it with no bushings means no cost of bushings, no lost bushings, no glued bushings. I just may have to try that...
 
mikespenturningz said:
One problem with only between centers is if you want to turn a 7mm pen. I am not sure if there are any bushings for them? Does anyone else have an answer for this? I never turn any 7mm pens anymore or have not needed to turn any for a long time.

Also I have not use a mandrel saver so cannot comment on them other than to say that I have also seen other posts that like them.
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If you don't see what you want on his website, send him an e-mail. I don't know for sure, but it seems like he makes them when someone needs them, but doesn't show stock on his site anymore. I have the 7mm triple play set, and they work great for many kinds of 7mm pens.



And back to the ops original question. When I started, I read every article in the library. At 1st I thought that TBC was more of an advanced way or making a pen. But the more I read, the more it made sense to me. So when I started buying accessories for my lathe, I skipped the pen mandrel. Never missed it at all. Ok, there were a few times when doing several pens that I thought it would be nice to be able to finish both barrels at the same time. But other than that, I can't think of any advantage a mandel has over TBC.
 
Now I will play devils advocate because that is what I have been told I like to do. So I will do that. Yes turning between centers is nice but it does add quite abit expense if you have to keep buying bushings for kits that you already have. I on ocassion use them. But I have an adjustable mandrel and I shorten it up to turn one blank at a time and never ever had an OOR blank. The whole trick is to not crush the barrel nut against the bushings and do not put so much pressure on the blank when turning. Do not overtighten the tailstock against mandrel. Let the tool do the work. I have used the same bushings for each kit for hundreds of pens. I only use them as a guide. I use my calipers to get me home.

So it is possible to turn just fine using a mandrel and turning between centers is not the only answer. So there is another option for the original OP of this question. So when that person who said it was way easier than using a mandrel doesn't know what they are talking about. It is just another option but not necessarily the best one. Keep that in mind. Someone mentioned a mandrel saver. That is another option.
 
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plano_harry said:
We should just write this up and put it in the library because it comes up about 6 times a year, and has no definitive answer - other than TBC is better and you need calipers whether you use bushings or not, mandrel or not. :rolleyes:

Harry
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Maybe so, It was ask by a new person who has yet to turn a pen, myself. It is meant for discussion not argument. There is more than one way to do just about anything. So other than a new person asking advice and learning from those opinions, should he or she be afraid to post questions other than, "nice pen" or "hello". From what I have read it seems obvious that people prefer whatever they prefer. Just looking for opinions, not arguments. When I buy a lathe and turn a pen I will post it and ask for constructive criticism. Until then I should be afraid to ask an opinion? I thought that's what forums are for, discussion. Thank you everyone, I now have a better understanding on this subject.:smile:

-Rick
 
Rick

Do not take that the wrong way. The forum is always open for discussions and new pen turners are always welcome to ask any questions they want. But you will find and this is a perfect example, there probably always is no right or wrong answers and usually many ways to do things. As you see here, the feelings are mixed as to what is a good way to turn your blanks. Many times it comes down to just trying these things for yourself and you making the call as to the way you want to do things. This question gets brought up so many times. You can do a search on this topic and see many pages of answers. But again the more people answer the more divided the answers get. If you want more detailed info on this topic just type in Turning Between Centers in the Search box and you will find some posts actually have photos of what people do. Utube also has many videos on this subject. But keep in mind as I mentioned it is not the only way to turn your blanks.

Happy turning and will be looking for your first pen photo. Now get that lathe and do some turning.:smile: Lets talk about the lathe you are looking at. :smile:
 
Hi John,:smile:

I totally agree with you one hundred percent. I wish I could get the lathe and start turning. As I stated in my introductions, that you may or may not have read. I am three weeks post op from my second cervical spine fusion due to an injury eight or nine years ago. Unfortunately it has left my left side partially paralyzed. It may come back may not. The doctors says will know more in six to twelve months. I found a few videos on YouTube that lead me here. I am amazed at the talent and work that people have here! I know most times its about finding your own way, believe me I am forty-six and have to learn how to use a walker. Its darn hard! One foot wants to go where ever it wants to.:confused:
In a nutshell I was a member of another forum totally unrelated to woodwork. The people that had been there a while would burn you on every post it would seem. I didn't want to just lurk around here and wanted some genuine advice, and be involved in some discussions So if I offended anyone or I seemed angry I am sorry. I didn't want it to come out defensive.

Sincerely,

Rick:smile::smile:
 
I TBC and I have turned with a mandrill as well, and all I can say is that I have never turned an oval pen when TBC. I have had a few when turning with a mandrill. I have a metal lathe and turn all my own bushings so I do not have the expense of buying cnc bushings. For me TBC works.

Donovan
 
Rick. Welcome aboard. Don't be offended. Most people will just tell you the correct forum to look at. Keep asking. Thats how most of us learn.

Paul
 
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