Middle Eastern Men with Back Packs

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PenMan1

PenMan1

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Eatonton, Georgia
Today, a young man with a turban and beard, carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone, right outside the door of our office complex.

Suddenly this young man pulled an electronic device with a digital display from the back pack and started entering numbers as his voice grew louder on the cell phone.

This was more than one redneck could handle!

I'll bet from now on the copier repair company WILL CALL to let us know that their technician is coming by to service our copiers.
 
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I bet that in their country when they see a white redneck they wonder if that redneck has written proof that their mother and father were not brother and sister prior to marriage. Its sad what stereotypes do to humanity.
 
I was NOT stereotyping the individual, but instead the behavior and the backpack. The device "put me a bit on edge".

I did call the copier company and asked that they let us know when a tech is coming by, or put a company logo shirt on him, an ID tag or something.

I REALIZE the problem was mine, but in light of recent events, you'd think companies would do a better job of making thier front line people more recognizable.

I realize that it MUST BE HELL to be a Muslum living in the U.S. right now.
 
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When I started in the copier industry, the tech assigned to handle the equipment I sold was a "turbaned" Indian.

Probably the BEST tech I have encountered in 35 years of copier sales and repair.
 
It doesn't matter what ethnic. It should be everyone that works in the service industry needs to wear something to identify themselves and company, a call should also be placed when someone will be there or on there way.
 
The problem with stereotypes is that they are so often true - whether it be that the best techs are from India or that what appear to be Muslims with back packs may present a threat. Due to a series of bank robberies in our town, every bank here requires that you remove your sunglasses and hoodie before entering their lobby. Not to do so is to be welcomed by a security guard. Stereotyping, yes. Appropriate, yes. I wish that before my daughter-in-law was looking at the business end of a pistol aimed at her by a sunglasses wearing hooded thief that a stereotyping security guard had put a stop to it. If the person is doing nothing wrong and presents no threat they would have no problem understanding that their attire communicates something they don't want to communicate (and perhaps changing it). And I'm no redneck.
 
Unfortunately stereotypes exist for a reason. Are they all accurate of course not, at least 75% of the time the stereotype is just that. I personally found myself right at the center of a stereotype controversy after the Columbine shootings because I wore a black leather trench coat on a daily basis. I was a Senior in high school and had been wearing my trench coat for several years, was an upstanding student, an enlisted soldier and did more to stop fights than most other people in school. Yet because of the shootings my coat was banned (my only winter coat). I still get looks when I wear my trench coat and that was over ten years ago. Unfortunately a few bad people ruin things for everyone who appears to possibly be part of their group.
 
Luckily for all of us, when the cave man encountered the sabre-toothed Tiger walking slowly over to him, he didn't think the tiger was just another harmless, peaceful kitty-cat, looking for a kindly pet on the tummy.

The Tiger had been stereotyped by his historic actions. Its called "self defense". Stereotyping, if you wish, but self defense.

Normally I wouldn't say I'm no redneck, but because of email and not knowing one another here, consider it said. All IMHO only.
Russ
 
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skiprat said:
Seems to me that the problem is with the Redneck and not with the Copier Repair Company.....:tongue:
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Skip:
You are EXACTLY CORRECT! The problem WAS me. AND I HATE FEELING that way. I seriously DOUBT that the ethnicity was what made me edgy.

The erratic behavior and the backpack, coupled with the fact that we didn't have advance notice or ANY INDICATION that person was SUPPOSED to behere put us on edge.

The post was hoping to inspire those who send "front line" people out to businesses or homes to make their people instantly recognizable.Had I seen a company ID, a "uniform", a company vehicle, my first thought would have been "Damned, the copier is broken again", instead of apprehension.
 
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PenMan1 said:
skiprat said:
Seems to me that the problem is with the Redneck and not with the Copier Repair Company.....:tongue:
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Skip:
You are EXACTLY CORRECT! The problem WAS me. AND I HATE FEELING that way. I seriously DOUBT that the ethnicity was what made me edgy.

The erratic behavior and the backpack, coupled with the fact that we didn't have advance notice or ANY INDICATION that person was SUPPOSED to be put us on edge.

The post was hoping to inspire those who send "front line" people out to businesses or homes to make their people instantly recognizable.Had I seen a company ID, a "uniform", a company vehicle, my first thought would have been "Damned, the copier is broken again", instead of apprehension.
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I disagree. The repairman is an agent of the company who sent him out, whether he is private contractor or direct employee of that company. He IS the company at that period he is repairing, or for whatever reason he was sent out to you.
When will we stop apologising for defending ourselves!?
Russ
 
SMJ1957 said:
The problem with stereotypes is that they are so often true - whether it be that the best techs are from India or that what appear to be Muslims with back packs may present a threat. Due to a series of bank robberies in our town, every bank here requires that you remove your sunglasses and hoodie before entering their lobby. Not to do so is to be welcomed by a security guard. Stereotyping, yes. Appropriate, yes. I wish that before my daughter-in-law was looking at the business end of a pistol aimed at her by a sunglasses wearing hooded thief that a stereotyping security guard had put a stop to it. If the person is doing nothing wrong and presents no threat they would have no problem understanding that their attire communicates something they don't want to communicate (and perhaps changing it). And I'm no redneck.
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Amen to that! Stereotypes exist for a reason. Without them would you be able to identify a threat? Are stereotypes fair? In somes cases absolutely not. In some cases they are greatly warranted. I think people are far too concerned with being PC and not offending anyone's delicate sensibilities. With the craziness that happens in the world today, you must always be vigilent and aware of what's going on around you. Be paranoid? Absolutely not! But be prepared. That's all I'm saying. Don't make yourself an easy victim.... :bulgy-eyes:
 
D.Oliver said:
I've got a sneaky suspicion that this thread will be moderated at some point.
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Definitely a topic that could cause feelings to be hurt or people to step over the bounds of whats acceptable here...

The mods hope things stay calm, but lets all remember to remember both the scope of IAP (international) AND that it can be hard to understand tone of the written word.

Dean
Asst Mod
 
How about this one:
White male
Born: April 23, 1968 in Lockport, NY
Died: June 11, 2001
Nationality: American
Religion: Roman Catholic
Military Service: US Army – Received the Bronze Star for his service in the first Gulf War
Place of Death: Terre Haute, Indiana
Cause of Death: Execution by lethal injection
Name: Timothy James "Tim" McVeigh
 
I trust everyone until I am given a reason not to. That can be by "the look" you project or by your "actions". And it makes not one bit of difference to me whom your parents are/were. There are "bad" people everywhere. We have to be prepared in this world today. Sadly, to many of us are not.
You can be doing nothing wrong ...... there are still eyes on you.
You can be doing nothing wrong ...... and still be a victim.
 
Fireengines said:
How about this one:
White male
Born: April 23, 1968 in Lockport, NY
Died: June 11, 2001
Nationality: American
Religion: Roman Catholic
Military Service: US Army – Received the Bronze Star for his service in the first Gulf War
Place of Death: Terre Haute, Indiana
Cause of Death: Execution by lethal injection
Name: Timothy James "Tim" McVeigh
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Which is just another reason I feel that Andy's stereotype was more aimed at the backpack and erratic behavior. I don't personally know Andy but I would like to think anyone would be slightly edgy around any person carrying a backpack and acting strangely right now, regardless of ethnicity.
 
Considering the times...

Consider the alternatives...

1) Your worse fears were realized.... Then you would not be messaging us. You would be dead.

2) You are overly cautious and a bit concerned. Home land security said for you to do more than you did.. They would have had you call 911 or something. ... HLS or police could have been involved. Who knows what would have happen.

All in all, seems to me you were prudent when calling the copier comapny and checking on them rather than calling HLS.

and so what are you going to do next time that a similar situation comes up.

Say "naw nothing can happen".... Reread alternative number 1.

Alan
 
Steve Beavers:
I think you have a full grasp of my thinking. Right now, because of some things happening in the Atlanta area, the Feds, State and City Governments have us all on edge. In fact, they are running ad campaigns encouraging everyone to notice ANYTHING unusual and report it.

I AM SURE that I WOULD HAVE STILL reported this event, REGARDLESS of the ethnicity, based only on the erratic behavior, the back pack and the Gentleman's failure to check in and let someone know who he was and why he was there.

Did his appearance influence my decision? I HOPE NOT, because I'm not that person. There IS a good deal of tension in the public, right now, particularly in bigger Metro areas. My hope was to try to get companies dealing with the public to help out by being a bit more proactive .

A "heads up" call, a company auto, logo shirt, or a ID TAG would have prevented this police call. The copier guys, the IT guys, the phone and cable guys all visit and ALL use electronic devices and cell phones from the parking lot. WHAT MADE THIS DIFFERENT AND SUSPICIOUS was that the tech did this BEFORE announcing himself and with NO credentials, identifying clothing or vehicle.

IMHO, this technician and his company added just as much to the hysteria as I.

Respectfully submitted.
 
if you are stereotyping anyways, at least do it right:
bearded people wearing turbans are sikh, not muslim. they come mostly from punjab india, and they have as much to do with islam as you and me do.

here are some aspects of sikhism that you are likely to respect, from wikipedia:
There are a number of religious prohibitions in Sikhism.
Prohibited are:

  1. Cutting hair: Cutting hair is strictly forbidden in Sikhism. Sikhs are required to keep unshorn hair.
  2. Intoxication: Consumption of alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and other intoxicants is not allowed. Intoxicants are strictly forbidden for a Sikh.[49][50][51] However the Nihangs of Punjab take an infusion of cannabis to assist meditation.[52]
  3. Adultery: In Sikhism, the spouses must be physically and mentally faithful to one another.[49][50][51]
  4. Blind spirituality: Superstitions and rituals should not be observed or followed, including pilgrimages, fasting and ritual purification; circumcision; idols & grave worship; compulsory wearing of the veil for women; etc.
  5. Material obsession: Obsession with material wealth is not encouraged in Sikhism.
  6. Sacrifice of creatures: The practice of sati (widows throwing themselves on the funeral pyre of their husbands), ritual animal sacrifice to celebrate holy occasions, etc. are forbidden.
  7. Non-family-oriented living: A Sikh is encouraged not to live as a recluse, beggar, yogi, monastic (monk/nun) or celibate. Sikhs are to live as saint-soldiers.
  8. Worthless talk: Bragging, lying, slander, "back-stabbing", etc. are not permitted. The Guru Granth Sahib tells the Sikh, "Your mouth has not stopped slandering and gossiping about others. Your service is useless and fruitless."[53]
  9. Priestly class: Sikhism does not have priests, they were abolished by Guru Gobind Singh (the 10th Guru of Sikhism).[54] The only position he left was a Granthi to look after the Guru Granth Sahib, any Sikh is free to become Granthi or read from the Guru Granth Sahib.[54]
  10. Eating meat killed in a ritualistic manner (Kutha meat): Sikhs are strictly prohibited from eating meat from animals slaughtered in a religiously prescribed manner (such as dhabihah or shechita, known as Kutha meat, when the animal is killed by exsanguination via throat-cutting),[55] or any meat where langar is served.[56] The meat eaten by Sikhs is known as Jhatka meat.[57][58]
  11. Having extramarital sexual relations.[
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besides, if last weeks event taught me anything, is that even seemingly normal, smiling, 19 years old kids can be evil.
 
studioso said:
besides, if last weeks event taught me anything, is that even seemingly normal, smiling, 19 years old kids can be evil.
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It took you till last week to learn this? I thought all teens are evil in some way!! :eek::eek: (tongue firmly in cheek of course - since i was a teen at some point long ago and have a teen of my own right now).
 
Could be from Hitchiker's Guide

At the age of 13, Martians send the brains of their teens to grafted into the skulls of our teens. (They can't stand their teens.) They leave them their until the age of 22, at which time they are removed and our children return to normal.

The alien activities you see in some teens is to be expected of Martians.
 
The biggest problem is Common Sense is being over shadowed by Political Correctness. You have to go with your gut instinct on suspicious activities and error on the side of reporting them. Let L.E. sort it out. As long as you did what you did with true concern for public safety then you should be able to sleep fine at night even if you are criticized later.
 
41 years service technician speaks

Penman,

Being that Eatonton used to be in my service territory way back when.
Where is there an office complex there?

Remember, it was you who called for his services.

Take it FWW and laugh.

Charlie
 
In my industry we are required to wear a uniform. We don't have to wear the whole thing, Hat, shirt, proper colored pants, jacket, name tag, and ID badge every day but if you are out of uniform the ID badge is required. If you are helping in an area that isn't your regular area we are required to wear full uniform with ID badge. We deal with the public, and have to go into someone's place of residence people just feel better when you look like you are a professional.
 
PenMan1 said:
Ed:
I TOTALLY AGREE, the techs from India are THE BEST we have around here. My point was that COMPANY should be doing more to let us know that their personnel have a reson for being here. A company shirt, an ID badge, ANYTHING!
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Even your backpedal is stereotyped.:laugh:
 
the big brother state works both ways.

Imagine.

You are just getting into casting. You have some success and people want your blanks bad. You go and start buying resin in 5 gallon buckets. your neighbor sees these chemical buckets in your trash each week and calls the authorities cause he knows you are not a chemist. Suddenly all hell breaks loose. All because you are casting pen blanks.

innocent until proven guilty.
 
Displaced Canadian said:
In my industry we are required to wear a uniform. We don't have to wear the whole thing, Hat, shirt, proper colored pants, jacket, name tag, and ID badge every day but if you are out of uniform the ID badge is required. If you are helping in an area that isn't your regular area we are required to wear full uniform with ID badge. We deal with the public, and have to go into someone's place of residence people just feel better when you look like you are a professional.
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There have been reported crimes around here about people IN uniforms getting people to open the door and robbing them. A Uniform means nothing.
 
Very true. I can tell you from experience that if you look professional and cary a tool bag you can stand at the door of a controlled access building looking at the intercom and the next person through the door will let you in. I was once let into a building that the first floor was a battered women's shelter. Nobody asked what a man in his early 30's was doing there. I did work there, it was my first day at that building.
 
Question?

Do you think they would have let you in if...

1) You were wearing a backpack.
2) You were wearing a baseball cap.
3) You were wearing a dark jacket.
4) You had long hair or facial hair.
5) You were nervous.
6) You were staring around.

I wonder
 
PenMan1 said:
Today, a young man with a turban and beard, carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone, right outside the door of our office complex.

Suddenly this young man pulled an electronic device with a digital display from the back pack and started entering numbers as his voice grew louder on the cell phone.
Click to expand...
With the exception of the turban and beard, I've been that person that you described. I was speaking a foreign language because I was in Beijing and I don't speak Chinese (neither does the person that was on the other end of the phone). None of their local 'rednecks' called the popo on me.
 
Displaced Canadian said:
Very true. I can tell you from experience that if you look professional and cary a tool bag you can stand at the door of a controlled access building looking at the intercom and the next person through the door will let you in. I was once let into a building that the first floor was a battered women's shelter. Nobody asked what a man in his early 30's was doing there. I did work there, it was my first day at that building.
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Yeah, I've seen this in secure military facilities also. Unless you have a guard at the door that is paying attention, people will let you in blindly. Witnessed several Captain's Masts for people letting "sliders" through in Texas and it was only a training station.

fact is, if someone wants to go somewhere, they most likely will find a way. Very little you can do to prevent it and in most cases they will look perfectly normal as they do it.
 
Boss302 said:
The biggest problem is Common Sense is being over shadowed by Political Correctness. You have to go with your gut instinct on suspicious activities and error on the side of reporting them. Let L.E. sort it out. As long as you did what you did with true concern for public safety then you should be able to sleep fine at night even if you are criticized later.
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I couldn't agree more. Tollerance and PC are getting a lot of people killed. As a vet of 23 years and still in government service and working in medicine, we must be alert to our surroundings, there is no option. DHS, HHS and FBI all tell us to be on alert whenever we go out in public. It's just the nature of the times and sticking our collective heads in the sand won't cure the problem.
 
Scruffy said:
Do you think they would have let you in if...

1) You were wearing a backpack.
2) You were wearing a baseball cap.
3) You were wearing a dark jacket.
4) You had long hair or facial hair.
5) You were nervous.
6) You were staring around.

I wonder
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I carry a backpack every day. As do 90% of the people that take the train with me through Union Station, 2 blocks from the Capitol.

Baseball caps, not me but others.

Dark Jackets? I wear a long raincoat most days until summer hits.

I wear a beard, and some of the guys have long hair (IT guys I think, a stereotype :eek:)

nervous and staring around. There are homeless guys walking through the station all the time. This is normal behavior.

The afternoon of the Boston murders there was no noticeable change in security. We have cops with machine guns in there at least twice a month when someone "imputant" .....er "Important" comes through. That day, nothing.
 
Scruffy said:
Do you think they would have let you in if...

1) You were wearing a backpack.
2) You were wearing a baseball cap.
3) You were wearing a dark jacket.
4) You had long hair or facial hair.
5) You were nervous.
6) You were staring around.

I wonder
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I see your point and for the most part no they wouldn't. I was wearing a black hat, jacket, sunglasses, the tool bag hangs from a shoulder strap, and staring at the intercom like I was looking for a name. The thing that gets people to trust you is the work boots and the tool bag. Also if you act like you know what you are doing, people don't question you.
 
an uneducated white guy getting out of a pickup with a rebel flag window decal and a rifle in the back window wouldn't have turned a head....An educated man from India trying to work hard and live the American Dream scares the hell out of you because he has a back pack and a beard and is smart enough to know more than one language?
 
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SerenityWoodWorks said:
an uneducated white guy getting out of a pickup with a rebel flag window decal and a rifle in the back window wouldn't have turned a head....An educated man from India trying to work hard and live the American Dream scares the hell out of you because he has a back pack and a beard and is smart enough to know more than one language?
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HUH?
 
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