plantman
Member
I agree with you Curtis !!! THE END Jim S
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Is it ethical to write a tutorial?
- Thread starter Wood Butcher
- Start date
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ironman123
Member
Jim S,
No picture...didn't happen.:biggrin:
Ray
No picture...didn't happen.:biggrin:
Ray
jttheclockman
Member
Can someone write a tutorial on how to make a tutorial
I think this has played out enough and as always nothing solved. Great job.
I think this has played out enough and as always nothing solved. Great job.
randywa
Member
Can someone write a tutorial on how to make a tutorial
Here ya go John. I didn't even say "check the library" :biggrin:.
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/writingatutorial.pdf
Haynie
Member
We all know you guys do it for the cash and power.:biggrin:
jttheclockman
Member
Can someone write a tutorial on how to make a tutorial
Here ya go John. I didn't even say "check the library" :biggrin:.
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/writingatutorial.pdf
I like it.:biggrin:
alphageek
Former Moderator
Sylvanite
Member
It's a problem you can get rid of by pressing the "Donate to IAP" button
CharlesJohnson
Member
Can someone write a tutorial on how to make a tutorial
Here ya go John. I didn't even say "check the library" :biggrin:.
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/writingatutorial.pdf
I like it.:biggrin:
Thanks for posting this. Not that I am near ready to do it now. It is reading the many great tutorials we are so blessed with that has lead to this interest. Thanks to each you for providing these.
Dale Allen
Member
Can someone write a tutorial on how to make a tutorial
Here ya go John. I didn't even say "check the library" :biggrin:.
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/writingatutorial.pdf
Ah-ha....so someone did make a pen that has the ink on the same end as the clip.
Now I don't have to re-idea that!:biggrin:
MartinPens
Member
Bill,
I think your character is of high quality when you take the time to post and ask if it would hurt anyones feelings to post a tutorial on something. I've had two other members PM, asking me if I minded if they post tutorials on cigar replica pens. I haven't shared my methods, so no one is posting my exact methods. I guess from another post, I'm the elephant. : )
Everyone knows that I didn't invent the cigar replica pen. Other people and companies have done designs way before my time. I noticed one in this last edition of Pen World magazine. I ran into Barry Gross a couple years ago at the LA Pen Show and saw that he was making cigar replica pens. I didn't know that. He said he had been making them for a while. He makes his a LOT different than I make mine.
I guess I'll give my 2 cents here. There's a legal angle and a fellow woodworker "respect" angle.
On the legal side all I have found out is that it's difficult to take a process (and quite expensive) of making a pen and get it somehow protected. The only way to protect it if one wants it protected is to keep the cards close to the chest. I have kept my cards pretty close. (although a thorough search will bring some perspective)
My reasons are not due to a stingy spirit or power or elitism or really anything like that at all for me. If anyone has ever met me in person or talked to me on the phone they could hopefully figure that out pretty quick. For me, I realized that I had spent a lot of time and money to come up with a product that I would be proud to sell to a niche market. And smart business says that if you want to take it serious enough to make it into a business you don't write a tutorial and post it online! Duh
However, what you are wanting to do is perfectly in your right to do. I have never shared specific techniques and have no idea if your method is anything like my method or like others who have been doing cigar replica pens.
Now, if someone bought one of my pens, dissected it and posted a tutorial on how they think it was accomplished, that would hurt my feelings and go against the spirit of what most of us are made of. I don't see you wanting to do that here.
I am working with a Lawyer right now to trademark the name Cigar Illusion and soon will be able to put the little TM after the name.. That is moderately costly, but something that I came up with that can be legally mine.
While not an "original" idea in general, it was original for me. I had never seen one before. I had no photo or design that got me going. I thought of doing a cigar replica pen after purchasing some cuban mahogany and the end of the blanks had sapwood and a thin black layer between the sapwood that made the blank look like a square cigar with burnt ash. Thus began the process of coming up with "my version." My version was influenced by a comment on the forum early on when someone suggested that I make the ash end the cap end. ( It was reversed and I was adding a clip at that time) I have been through several versions using different kit parts/pieces, modifying parts, ruining parts etc... and all that work equals a unique item that I sell so that I can hopefully break even or make a few bucks in this hobby/business that tends to be a money drain. Of course It would be a bummer if someone posted a tutorial and it ended up becoming something that everyone started doing.... but I don't think that is really going to happen. Try making the same thing over and over again and you will find out that no matter how unique it is it begins to get old. We usually move on to something new.
I'm going to ride this train as long as I can and make the most of it. The Cigar Illusion is my journey in craftsmanship, I came up with it, developed it and I'm still refining it. Even if it gets copied or massed produced in China (and yes that would hurt) I will still hold on to the unique craftsmanship that I am proud of which took many hours of pure delight in creating something in the shop. That can't be taken away by a tutorial or copycats. My business certainly could be affected, but my pride in my own work will remain.
Take pride in your own work. If you want to share it, share it. If it's a "secret recipe" and you want to spoil it, (It seems clear that is not the intent) then that's the kind of person you are and you'll likely get the drama you seek. There is no shortage of drama seekers on this sight. Im a drama king sometimes on here and I have to step back and cool my jets for a while. Just mention the "Best of IAP" to me and I have to go clamp my lips shut.
I had a professional woodturner tell me that he thought the forums were made up of "bottom dwellers." I don't think the IAP is a bunch of "bottom dwellers" but there are definitely some on here who are. Welcome to online forums. The very fact that someone would post and ask if toes would be stepped on proves that there are quality poeple here in the IAP.
Thanks for the opportunity to share my view. Now get out there and be creative! Think a new thought.
I think your character is of high quality when you take the time to post and ask if it would hurt anyones feelings to post a tutorial on something. I've had two other members PM, asking me if I minded if they post tutorials on cigar replica pens. I haven't shared my methods, so no one is posting my exact methods. I guess from another post, I'm the elephant. : )
Everyone knows that I didn't invent the cigar replica pen. Other people and companies have done designs way before my time. I noticed one in this last edition of Pen World magazine. I ran into Barry Gross a couple years ago at the LA Pen Show and saw that he was making cigar replica pens. I didn't know that. He said he had been making them for a while. He makes his a LOT different than I make mine.
I guess I'll give my 2 cents here. There's a legal angle and a fellow woodworker "respect" angle.
On the legal side all I have found out is that it's difficult to take a process (and quite expensive) of making a pen and get it somehow protected. The only way to protect it if one wants it protected is to keep the cards close to the chest. I have kept my cards pretty close. (although a thorough search will bring some perspective)
My reasons are not due to a stingy spirit or power or elitism or really anything like that at all for me. If anyone has ever met me in person or talked to me on the phone they could hopefully figure that out pretty quick. For me, I realized that I had spent a lot of time and money to come up with a product that I would be proud to sell to a niche market. And smart business says that if you want to take it serious enough to make it into a business you don't write a tutorial and post it online! Duh
However, what you are wanting to do is perfectly in your right to do. I have never shared specific techniques and have no idea if your method is anything like my method or like others who have been doing cigar replica pens.
Now, if someone bought one of my pens, dissected it and posted a tutorial on how they think it was accomplished, that would hurt my feelings and go against the spirit of what most of us are made of. I don't see you wanting to do that here.
I am working with a Lawyer right now to trademark the name Cigar Illusion and soon will be able to put the little TM after the name.. That is moderately costly, but something that I came up with that can be legally mine.
While not an "original" idea in general, it was original for me. I had never seen one before. I had no photo or design that got me going. I thought of doing a cigar replica pen after purchasing some cuban mahogany and the end of the blanks had sapwood and a thin black layer between the sapwood that made the blank look like a square cigar with burnt ash. Thus began the process of coming up with "my version." My version was influenced by a comment on the forum early on when someone suggested that I make the ash end the cap end. ( It was reversed and I was adding a clip at that time) I have been through several versions using different kit parts/pieces, modifying parts, ruining parts etc... and all that work equals a unique item that I sell so that I can hopefully break even or make a few bucks in this hobby/business that tends to be a money drain. Of course It would be a bummer if someone posted a tutorial and it ended up becoming something that everyone started doing.... but I don't think that is really going to happen. Try making the same thing over and over again and you will find out that no matter how unique it is it begins to get old. We usually move on to something new.
I'm going to ride this train as long as I can and make the most of it. The Cigar Illusion is my journey in craftsmanship, I came up with it, developed it and I'm still refining it. Even if it gets copied or massed produced in China (and yes that would hurt) I will still hold on to the unique craftsmanship that I am proud of which took many hours of pure delight in creating something in the shop. That can't be taken away by a tutorial or copycats. My business certainly could be affected, but my pride in my own work will remain.
Take pride in your own work. If you want to share it, share it. If it's a "secret recipe" and you want to spoil it, (It seems clear that is not the intent) then that's the kind of person you are and you'll likely get the drama you seek. There is no shortage of drama seekers on this sight. Im a drama king sometimes on here and I have to step back and cool my jets for a while. Just mention the "Best of IAP" to me and I have to go clamp my lips shut.
I had a professional woodturner tell me that he thought the forums were made up of "bottom dwellers." I don't think the IAP is a bunch of "bottom dwellers" but there are definitely some on here who are. Welcome to online forums. The very fact that someone would post and ask if toes would be stepped on proves that there are quality poeple here in the IAP.
Thanks for the opportunity to share my view. Now get out there and be creative! Think a new thought.
I would love to see a tuturial on the cigar pen just as much as any other pen, I would really like to make one, but I just can't see myself making them on a regular basis.
They are great looking pens and I was surprised at the prices on your website, I honestly thought they would be $100ish more, than the prices displayed.
Regards
Peter
They are great looking pens and I was surprised at the prices on your website, I honestly thought they would be $100ish more, than the prices displayed.
Regards
Peter
ironman123
Member
Martin, thank you for your comments on this topic.
Ray
Ray
beck3906
Member
plantmanSounds to me like everyone else does all the hard work for you and you just turn it round and make the profit. Where are you progressing on that path??? I don't even know what your turnings look like since you have ZERO in the photo section. [/quote said:
Haynie
Member
This horse seems to have been ground up and sold to Ikea.
beck3906
Member
I'm being very serious. I would consider buying some of his blanks if the price is right. I was hoping he would read this and respond
beck3906
Member
Who knows, he had a few that could go to some of our vendors
Waluy
Member
Martin,
Not to hijack the thread at all but I just saw your cigar replicas for the first time (I am still really new to turning and the IAP forum) and I have to say they look amazing.
As to the original question: As far as tutorials go I am on several other sites dealing with the other types I make (chainmaille jewelry for one) and any time a tutorial is posted someone will think it hurts their business. The real issue as I see it isn't the tutorial but the "bottom dwellers" who will actively look for things to copy and sell cheaper. I personally am a firm believer if by some chance I like something enough to copy and sell (highly unlikely as it doesn't have my "touch") then it will always be sold at the same cost or higher with notes telling people the original idea was <insert name here>'s. I have actually driven business to a person who's tutorial I used to make a piece for myself. When people asked how much it would be for me to make one I pointed them in the original's direction.
jttheclockman
Member
Why don't you make a chainmaille pen??? You c ould either wrap a tube and cast or wrap a blank. Would look pretty sharp!!!!!
Then write a tutorial on how it was done. not that anyone would try. I bet it is not an easy artform.
walshjp17
Member
Hopefully the funeral for this poor horse will be scheduled soon.:wink::biggrin:
Haynie
Member
Meatballs man. Just making some super tenrized meatballs, hamburgers, and other other fine eats. Though the chainmaille pen sounds cool.
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
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alphageek
Former Moderator
It's my personal favorite on any forum when people keep bumping a thread to post about dead horses. There's multiple levels of irony there.
ironman123
Member
OH NO!!! Now there is going to be another topic because of that picture. Cruelty to dead animals.:biggrin:
Ray
Ray
rej19
Member
Well, I have just read some of this post. I didn't take time to read all 11 pages so if I am repeating something sorry. Cigar looking pens are not my cup of tea but I would love to see the technique. I used to dabble in close up magic and there is a Indiana magician who has been making wood fake cigars for a long time. I have seen his stuff up close and they they would pass for the real thing! Good grief they even look like they glow and have chew marks on them. Not sure how it does it but the point is that this type of thing is not new. But applying it to a pen probably is newer. Here is a link if you want to see some.
John Rogers Wooden Cigars
Bill make sure you bring one to the meeting next week. I would love to see it.
John Rogers Wooden Cigars
Bill make sure you bring one to the meeting next week. I would love to see it.
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healeydays
Member
Some folks here are very willing to help a new person learn and I thank them for the responses I have received, then there are the others. I asked a member a simple question about a tool they use in a process that they do here, and I basically got a non-answer from this person.
Come on guys, I'm not asking for your secret sauce, I'm asking what type of spatula you use to turn the hamburger on the grille. I understand that some folks try to make a living here, I'm trying to learn things to make the hobby more fun and impress friends and family.
Ok, now climbing off my soapbox...
Come on guys, I'm not asking for your secret sauce, I'm asking what type of spatula you use to turn the hamburger on the grille. I understand that some folks try to make a living here, I'm trying to learn things to make the hobby more fun and impress friends and family.
Ok, now climbing off my soapbox...
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
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Waluy
Member
Why don't you make a chainmaille pen??? You c ould either wrap a tube and cast or wrap a blank. Would look pretty sharp!!!!!
Then write a tutorial on how it was done. not that anyone would try. I bet it is not an easy artform.
I actually have had that idea but figured I would wait until I get a few more standard style pens under my belt (I have only turned a handful of things right now, because I moved and haven't been able to put my shop back together yet.)
jttheclockman
Member
Why don't you make a chainmaille pen??? You c ould either wrap a tube and cast or wrap a blank. Would look pretty sharp!!!!!
Then write a tutorial on how it was done. not that anyone would try. I bet it is not an easy artform.
I actually have had that idea but figured I would wait until I get a few more standard style pens under my belt (I have only turned a handful of things right now, because I moved and haven't been able to put my shop back together yet.)
You have to do it man. That would really look sharp. I look forward to it.
Wood Butcher
Local Chapter Leader
The cigar tutorial has been completed and sent to wracinowski for publishing in the library if, after reviewing it, he feels is should be you'll find it there. I haven't replied to the PM requests because it can be read in its entirety in the library rather than me sending it out 1,000,000,000,000,000 times. I really appreciate all of the interest, comments and suggestions in this post and please believe me, I didn't intend or expect this to get out of hand as it has. I've stated the reason for the original post and completed the tutorial to the best of my ability. Enjoy it when it shows up and please comment on the effort and it's application.
WB
WB
plantman
Member
Good choice !! Looking forward to your method. After your tutorial appears, I will post photos of my second method of making this pen. Jim S
WB has created a great tutorial. Look for it soon in the library.
Bobostro61
Member
Being a cigar smoker on occasion and a novice pen turner, I would LOVE to see a tutorial on how to make one of those. I've seen photos of them on the forum here and there and think "how in the heck did he do that?". I want to try and make one for myself and a couple friends that are also cigar smokers but just don't know where to begin.
Guess I should have read more of the other 11 pages. Found the tutorial. Very cool and thank you!
Guess I should have read more of the other 11 pages. Found the tutorial. Very cool and thank you!
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Is it up and I'm just missing it?
Is the file in the library and I'm just missing It?
Is the file in the library and I'm just missing It?
It's in the library and also shown on the right sidebar of the front page.
http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/realistic_cigar_pen.pdf
cwolfs69
Member
Go for it
i completely agree with almost all of the posts on this thread that say go ahead with the tutorial. i have not read every reply word for word so if i repeat something forgive me.
we all have skills and talents different from all of the rest. i could name many, many things that i have watched, understood, and quite frankly thought at the time "what is so special about this". however when it came to doing it that was a different thing entirely. and on the other side, i have seen things others do and after trying it myself, what was the big del, this is simple and even improved on it.
so, unless you have received some private information from someone who is trusting you keep it a "trade secret" there is absolutely no reason you should not help the rest of us learn the trick. or at least give us the information to fail in some cases.
as the others have stated, GO FOR IT
i completely agree with almost all of the posts on this thread that say go ahead with the tutorial. i have not read every reply word for word so if i repeat something forgive me.
we all have skills and talents different from all of the rest. i could name many, many things that i have watched, understood, and quite frankly thought at the time "what is so special about this". however when it came to doing it that was a different thing entirely. and on the other side, i have seen things others do and after trying it myself, what was the big del, this is simple and even improved on it.
so, unless you have received some private information from someone who is trusting you keep it a "trade secret" there is absolutely no reason you should not help the rest of us learn the trick. or at least give us the information to fail in some cases.
as the others have stated, GO FOR IT
jyreene
Member
Man, what a discussion. I will say a few things just because my wife and I have been dealing with copywrites, trademarks, and so on for her business but particularly because the members of this site have been invaluable for tips and tricks to help push my wood working abilities beyond what I was at.
I have been on this site only since 2009. My dad got my wife and me into pen making and bowl making and that helped push me into more wood working. I have used the assistance of members here to create some great gifts that include pens, but also they helped me SAFELY and successfully make an all wooden rocking horse and a blanket chest. I could say I did this on my own but I turned to members here to help me understand how to make these safely and how to make them last (my 6'2" 220 lbs self can rock on the rocking horse thanks to you all).
My final, lengthy, thought on tutorials, I have read them to help me get ideas and have come back to them to help me figure out my own processes and techniques, especially since the Marine Corps and my growing family has taken a lot of time from my beloved hobby. Using those tutorials has jogged my memory on where I left off so I don't have to re-learn by wasting materials. Having to purchase new stuff because I had to re-learn would at some times push this from a hobby to a back shelf idea. I remember the herringbone 360 and all the calls for a tutorial. I remember the creator not wanting to post a tutorial and I agreed with that because it is something he should be proud of. I also remember saying that a tutorial would be awesome but they should only do it if they want and not because anyone made them feel obligated. I also have a few PMs from that person because I asked if they could send me a few pictures of the FINAL product from two different angles so I could see if I could figure it out on my own, or if I could buy one to do the same. That member obliged me and sent me to a few posts with those photos. I now see that there is a herringbone tutorial but I won't read it unless I get stuck or I think I might cause something dangerous (more so than a glued together bunch of pieces of wood spinning at a crazy amount of RPMs while trying to shave it down with tools, etc....) that would injure me.
Anyways, I see it has been posted and might read it if I am interested in making a cigar pen but until then I will say thanks for all the support over the years and turning this from an interest and a hobby, into an outlet and release that I thoroughly enjoy and de-stresses me and also allowing me to make some unique and one of a kind retirement and thank you gifts for my Marine brothers.
Semper Fidelis
I have been on this site only since 2009. My dad got my wife and me into pen making and bowl making and that helped push me into more wood working. I have used the assistance of members here to create some great gifts that include pens, but also they helped me SAFELY and successfully make an all wooden rocking horse and a blanket chest. I could say I did this on my own but I turned to members here to help me understand how to make these safely and how to make them last (my 6'2" 220 lbs self can rock on the rocking horse thanks to you all).
My final, lengthy, thought on tutorials, I have read them to help me get ideas and have come back to them to help me figure out my own processes and techniques, especially since the Marine Corps and my growing family has taken a lot of time from my beloved hobby. Using those tutorials has jogged my memory on where I left off so I don't have to re-learn by wasting materials. Having to purchase new stuff because I had to re-learn would at some times push this from a hobby to a back shelf idea. I remember the herringbone 360 and all the calls for a tutorial. I remember the creator not wanting to post a tutorial and I agreed with that because it is something he should be proud of. I also remember saying that a tutorial would be awesome but they should only do it if they want and not because anyone made them feel obligated. I also have a few PMs from that person because I asked if they could send me a few pictures of the FINAL product from two different angles so I could see if I could figure it out on my own, or if I could buy one to do the same. That member obliged me and sent me to a few posts with those photos. I now see that there is a herringbone tutorial but I won't read it unless I get stuck or I think I might cause something dangerous (more so than a glued together bunch of pieces of wood spinning at a crazy amount of RPMs while trying to shave it down with tools, etc....) that would injure me.
Anyways, I see it has been posted and might read it if I am interested in making a cigar pen but until then I will say thanks for all the support over the years and turning this from an interest and a hobby, into an outlet and release that I thoroughly enjoy and de-stresses me and also allowing me to make some unique and one of a kind retirement and thank you gifts for my Marine brothers.
Semper Fidelis
DaveVW
Member
this is a good question. My understanding is this becomes an issue if you are selling the process. That is, you are making money off someone's patented or copyrighted material. Tutorials on sites like this seldom have a fee attached to it. I think we are considered a voluntary association and as such are free to exchange common information among us. If you clearly use someone elses work in your tutorial I believe all you need to do is give attribution to the source. IE. state where you got it. I think you are free to do the tutorial. I would love to see it, since you taught me how to make pen's I continue the tradition of the "addiction". Bring it on!!
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