Cookie Sheet Photography

[Robert111]

I had a lot of trouble getting this pen to show up nicely in my photo attempts. Then I read "My Simple Photo Set-up" by el_d. He's right. Take the set-up outside and use a metal plate (in my case a cookie sheet). I really like the results.

 

[Robert111]

What the h*ll did I do now!

 

[Robert111]

Okay, and these two pictures show me that I need a dark background for a dark-colored pen. First one is on the cookie sheet and second one is on black cloth.

 

[studioso]

very nice...
your green pen, the blank shows nicely on the cloth, but metal is blown out (overexposed)
basically, when you try to take a picture over a black background, the camera , which tries to render everything as if it's 18% gray, compensates by giving you a longer exposure. this also makes the picture a bit blurrier.

Personally, I'd stick to the cookie tray, and try to bring out the green blank by getting some light on it, perhaps with a mirror, and over-exposing by a stop or so.

if you have a software like lightroom or photoshop, you can alternatively bring out the green with softweare.

 

[Robert111]

very nice...
your green pen, the blank shows nicely on the cloth, but metal is blown out (overexposed)
basically, when you try to take a picture over a black background, the camera , which tries to render everything as if it's 18% gray, compensates by giving you a longer exposure. this also makes the picture a bit blurrier.

Personally, I'd stick to the cookie tray, and try to bring out the green blank by getting some light on it, perhaps with a mirror, and over-exposing by a stop or so.

if you have a software like lightroom or photoshop, you can alternatively bring out the green with softweare.

Okay, thanks, Alex. I saw that the metal was not as good on black cloth and am glad to know there's a way to get the green to come out with a gray background. I don't have P'shop but I'll try reflecting some light on the pen with some aluminum foil on a cardboard backer. Thanks again, Alex.

 

[azamiryou]

A fun experiment: take the pen out of the picture, and just photo the backdrops. White, gray, black... they'll all come out about the same, because the camera automatically adjusts the exposure to make the scene gray. Compensate by adjusting the exposure, or using manual mode to specifically set the aperture and shutter speed.

 

[76winger]

The best thing you can do is bracket your exposures for color and exposure to find the correct settings. But working outside you have the downfall of having to redo this process every time you set up since the lighting changes from day to day and the time of day affects things as well. You'll probably want to look for a particular time of day and similar weather conditions each session for consistency of outside photos.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about for bracketing from last year when I was figuring out the correct settings for my DIY photo tent.
<note: Click on photos for larger version>


Then once you have the settings for white level and exposure figured out, you can get pretty consistent results. This is what I ended up with from the tests above, that made the pen show up the most realistically, but the white background took on a grayish appearance (this is without photo editing afterwards to help).
Then notice how much brighter the pen looks when I switched to a gray background so the camera wasn't working so hard to convert everything 18% gray as studioso mentioned above. Lighting for both photos was the same.



I hope this helps you visualize how the background makes a big difference. Good luck and lets see some more of what you come up with!

 

[el_d]

Nice Robert. I like you shots as is. Maybe find another area to try to decrease your shadows.

I don't care to mess with all that photo stuff. My eyes glass over. I just chose the brightest part of the day and try to get my studio as close to direct sunlight while still being in the shade of my patio.

I do use a PSelements to clean up dirt and specs then label my pics. Easy cheasy.......

 

[Robert111]

The best thing you can do is bracket your exposures for color and exposure to find the correct settings. But working outside you have the downfall of having to redo this process every time you set up since the lighting changes from day to day and the time of day affects things as well. You'll probably want to look for a particular time of day and similar weather conditions each session for consistency of outside photos.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about for bracketing from last year when I was figuring out the correct settings for my DIY photo tent.
<note: Click on photos for larger version>


Then once you have the settings for white level and exposure figured out, you can get pretty consistent results. This is what I ended up with from the tests above, that made the pen show up the most realistically, but the white background took on a grayish appearance (this is without photo editing afterwards to help).
Then notice how much brighter the pen looks when I switched to a gray background so the camera wasn't working so hard to convert everything 18% gray as studioso mentioned above. Lighting for both photos was the same.



I hope this helps you visualize how the background makes a big difference. Good luck and lets see some more of what you come up with!

Dave,
This is great stuff. I'm really getting good results suddenly after months of messing around. Thanks for the info. I'll post a couple more later in this thread.

 

[Robert111]

A fun experiment: take the pen out of the picture, and just photo the backdrops. White, gray, black... they'll all come out about the same, because the camera automatically adjusts the exposure to make the scene gray. Compensate by adjusting the exposure, or using manual mode to specifically set the aperture and shutter speed.

Thanks Matthew. The camera behaves just as you say. I'm finding out why a tripod is necessary with these shutter speeds.

 

[Robert111]

Nice Robert. I like you shots as is. Maybe find another area to try to decrease your shadows.

I don't care to mess with all that photo stuff. My eyes glass over. I just chose the brightest part of the day and try to get my studio as close to direct sunlight while still being in the shade of my patio.

I do use a PSelements to clean up dirt and specs then label my pics. Easy cheasy.......

You may not like messing with "all that photo stuff," but you sure helped me when you started your thread. Thank you!

 

[Robert111]

Here's a bunch more on the cookie sheet with an aluminum foil reflector.

 

[76winger]

Here's a bunch more on the cookie sheet with an aluminum foil reflector.

You're getting really close Robert (and the pens are AWESOME!!!)! I think if you can get a little more light on the front side, it will light up the colors of the material tremendously.

Also, your focus is off just a little, and the depth of field is very small, which exaggerates the focus issue. This, is where a tripod will come into play as a must: You're probably using an apperature setting down in the ranges below f8 in order to use a faster shutter speed that won't show motion while hand-holding. To get some really good DOF, I'm usually shooting at f18 or above, and still I have to keep the angle of the pen to camera minimized to retain a decent overall focus and DOF. And with my lighting that aperture setting usually requires about 1/6 of a second exposure on average (your mileage will vary depending on your camera setup and the available light you have to work with). There's no way anyone can hold the camera still enough without a tripod at that setting.

You're getting really close!

 

[Robert111]

Here's a bunch more on the cookie sheet with an aluminum foil reflector.

You're getting really close Robert (and the pens are AWESOME!!!)! I think if you can get a little more light on the front side, it will light up the colors of the material tremendously.

Also, your focus is off just a little, and the depth of field is very small, which exaggerates the focus issue. This, is where a tripod will come into play as a must: You're probably using an apperature setting down in the ranges below f8 in order to use a faster shutter speed that won't show motion while hand-holding. To get some really good DOF, I'm usually shooting at f18 or above, and still I have to keep the angle of the pen to camera minimized to retain a decent overall focus and DOF. And with my lighting that aperture setting usually requires about 1/6 of a second exposure on average (your mileage will vary depending on your camera setup and the available light you have to work with). There's no way anyone can hold the camera still enough without a tripod at that setting.

You're getting really close!

Thanks, Dave. This really helps! All you guys at IAP really made my day!

 

[butchf18a]

Dave...thanks for your post. Saved me from having to write it all out myself.

I would suggest looking in the forums, photography section. I've posted numerous articles on photo technique, particularly as related to pen photography.

Robert. Your photos are improving. You don't mention what sort of equipment you are shooting with. While acceptable photos, with proper lighting and technique, can be achieved with simple point and shoot camera, the better the equipment, the more options you will have for making adjustments.

Your pics tend to be under-exposed as evidenced by the dark background. This situation tends to hide the subject, your pen, making the overall composition muddled.

Reflected light from foil covered card is one step to help bring more light into the photograph, as well as to fill in harsh shadows. The same thing can be done with a simple white card. Again, without knowing what camera and lights you are working with, it's difficult to offer much beyond basic advice and encouragement to keep trying.

jmoicbw-bidi

Butch

 

[Robert111]

Dave...thanks for your post. Saved me from having to write it all out myself.

I would suggest looking in the forums, photography section. I've posted numerous articles on photo technique, particularly as related to pen photography.

Robert. Your photos are improving. You don't mention what sort of equipment you are shooting with. While acceptable photos, with proper lighting and technique, can be achieved with simple point and shoot camera, the better the equipment, the more options you will have for making adjustments.

Your pics tend to be under-exposed as evidenced by the dark background. This situation tends to hide the subject, your pen, making the overall composition muddled.

Reflected light from foil covered card is one step to help bring more light into the photograph, as well as to fill in harsh shadows. The same thing can be done with a simple white card. Again, without knowing what camera and lights you are working with, it's difficult to offer much beyond basic advice and encouragement to keep trying.

jmoicbw-bidi

Butch

Butch, thank you. I will take your advice (and encouragement) and spend some time reading the Pen Photography forum.

I understand about depth-of-field and bracketing, etc., from the days before digital, but at this point I just have a Canon P&S. I'm looking around for a digital SLR, preferably used. I really want better photos, but don't want to spend too much of my time and money away from actual turning.

 

[butchf18a]

Robert,

One of the biggest factors, besides your desire to improve, is lighting. Some of the articles address that topic specifically. With proper lighting technique you can achieve acceptable results even with a camera phone. Poor lighting and composition will never be overcome even by the most elaborate or expensive equipment.

You understand depth of field and basic exposure. While the medium may have change from celluloid to sensor fields, the basic concepts remain the same.

butch