Crooked Pen help

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RickLong

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Hello,

Not sure where my problem might be. Hopefully someone can help.

I just purchased a new Delta Lathe (love it so far), I was using a ShopSmith lathe in the past. So during this upgrade I had to purchase a mandrel that fits the new lathe.

One thing I am noticing since using this new mandrel is a lot of my final pens seem to be a little crooked.

The process I used to make pens (fwiw):
1. Cut my blanks to tube size (leaving 1/16" to square off), with a band saw.
2. Epoxy glue my tubes in and allow them to cure for a min. of 6 hours before moving to the next step.
3. Mill out the play doh I use to prevent the epoxy from entering the tubes when inserting them into my blanks.
4. Use a belt sander to square the wood down to the brass (removing that additional 1/16")
5. Turn the blank
6. Assemble pen

I checked my band saw and the blade sits at 90degrees to the table. I know my cuts are not a perfect 90 degrees all the time but most of the time I am pretty good about keeping my blanks square during this step.

I am thinking it is during the belt sanding stage that might be causing my problem. I sand down so the wood and the brass are level/flush.

Suggestions, Comments?

Oh, one other question. I have noticed sometimes when using Epoxy some blanks must have an air void between the brass and the inside wall of the blank. When turning, I sometimes get a "soft" spot or it might show a small rip. Suggestions on preventing this. I really try to spread my epoxy on evenly.

Thanks for the help!

Rick
 
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Well I really have no clue why your pens are turning out crooked but I would suggest that you invest in some CA glue and Accelerator. It gets rid of the 6 hour setting time completely and you don't have to problems with the softspots gained from the epoxy.

Just my 0.02.
 
Can you elaborate on what you mean by crooked? Or do you have a picture?

Are you just eye balling it on the belt sander? Or are you using a jig or something? It has to be exactly 90° to the tube (not the blank) to ensure the ends are square.

AK
 
Andrew_K99 said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by crooked? Or do you have a picture?

Are you just eye balling it on the belt sander? Or are you using a jig or something? It has to be exactly 90° to the tube (not the blank) to ensure the ends are square.

AK
Click to expand...

AK,

I am eye balling it on the belt sander or using a miter gauge when running it across the belt sander... I will try using my squaring attachment on the mill again.

****
Rusty -

I use AC and accelertor too. When I like to do a batch of pens, I prefer epoxy. My hands don't get the A/C glue on them at not as rushed doing 20-30 blanks at a time.

Only reason I wait so long when using epoxy so when I do use my belt sander the glue does not kill the sanding belts with epoxy.
*****

Thanks guys,

In my shop right now going to try and drop the belt sanding part and use the squaring tool on the mill.. I'll post a pic as soon as I am done this pen with the an example of a crooked one too.

Rick
 
RickLong said:
Hello,

Not sure where my problem might be. Hopefully someone can help.

I just purchased a new Delta Lathe (love it so far), I was using a ShopSmith lathe in the past. So during this upgrade I had to purchase a mandrel that fits the new lathe.

One thing I am noticing since using this new mandrel is a lot of my final pens seem to be a little crooked.

The process I used to make pens (fwiw):
1. Cut my blanks to tube size (leaving 1/16" to square off), with a band saw.
2. Epoxy glue my tubes in and allow them to cure for a min. of 6 hours before moving to the next step.
I too, use CA to glue the tubes in the wood blanks, and 5 min. epoxy on resin blanks.

3. Mill out the play doh I use to prevent the epoxy from entering the tubes when inserting them into my blanks.
Rather than play doh, why not buy dental base wax sheets and push the tubes into it to cap the ends! It works great and it goes along way. You can purchase this from http://www.arizonasilhouette.com

4. Use a belt sander to square the wood down to the brass (removing that additional 1/16")
As someone else has already pointed out, you either need to use a barrel trimmer or have a jig that holds the tube and blank square to the disk sander. http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005386/13688/Complete-Pen-Mill-Set.aspx

5. Turn the blank
6. Assemble pen

I checked my band saw and the blade sits at 90degrees to the table. I know my cuts are not a perfect 90 degrees all the time but most of the time I am pretty good about keeping my blanks square during this step.

I am thinking it is during the belt sanding stage that might be causing my problem. I sand down so the wood and the brass are level/flush.

Suggestions, Comments?

Oh, one other question. I have noticed sometimes when using Epoxy some blanks must have an air void between the brass and the inside wall of the blank. When turning, I sometimes get a "soft" spot or it might show a small rip. Suggestions on preventing this. I really try to spread my epoxy on evenly.

Thanks for the help!

Rick
Click to expand...

This is just my .02 worth
 
I appreciate that help. I used a barrel trimmer instead of the belt sander and this seems to have done the trick.

I will upload some pictures later tonight.

Rick
 
How do you drill out your blanks? If you are seeing gaps between the inner wall of the blank and the tube, then you aren't drilling straight OR your method has too much run out. Do you drill on the lathe or on the drill press?
 
Also, turning the tube when inserting it will help to distribute the glue more evenly and eliminate areas without glue. This is good to do even if you have completely covered the tube with glue.

Some folks, when inserting the tube, will push the tube through the blank so it comes partially out the other side and then push it back in again to help distribute the glue better. Be careful if using CA as it get set up before you get it back in.
 
When you sand are you sanding parallel to the tube? Simply putting a blank on the sander is assurance that the tube is parallel. :eek::eek: If it is not you will have an angle on the tube that will not fit flat on the kit parts. :mad::mad:
Ron
 
scotirish said:
When you sand are you sanding parallel to the tube? Simply putting a blank on the sander is assurance that the tube is parallel. :eek::eek: If it is not you will have an angle on the tube that will not fit flat on the kit parts. :mad::mad:
Ron
Click to expand...


Perpendicular, not parallel...

;)
 
I had a similar problem before I understood that the end of the blank has to be square to the tube, not to the outside edges of the blank. My drill press was not drilling the holes perfectly vertical in the blank. They were on a slight angle, so the ends of the blank had to be milled to the same slight angle.

I don't have a jig for my disc sander, so I sand down close to the brass and use the pen mill in a pin vise (a handle with a little chuck on it) to hand mill the last bit square with the tube. If it is a very hard wood, I will wait until the piece is turned down almost to the bushings, use the mill to finish squaring it, and finish turning it, then use a sanding mill to do a final square up on the finished blank. Haven't had any problems since. I like to turn custom slims with no CB and it really shows up if they aren't perfectly square to the tube.

I have since improved the accuracy on my drill press to minimize the problem. It was slightly out of alignment.
 
If you haven't changed anything with your technique and all of this started because of a new lathe and mandrel, I would start by turning a pen section between centers (without the mandrel) and go from there. If there's still an issue, make sure the headstock/tailstock are aligned and running "true"...
 
jbswearingen said:
How do you drill out your blanks? If you are seeing gaps between the inner wall of the blank and the tube, then you aren't drilling straight OR your method has too much run out. Do you drill on the lathe or on the drill press?
Click to expand...


I use a drill press and a pen vice. Since starting this post, I have made 5 pens using the squaring off tool on my miller instead of the belt sander. This seems to have fixed the problem.

Another question asked: How do i use the belt sander? I always double checked that my table on my belt sander was perpendicular to the sanding belt. I mostly would use a miter gauge to hold the blanks and sand with. This obviously works but not very predictable. 9 out of 10 pens would be good doing it this way. I know that is a 10% fail rate and a bit high.

I've decided to use the squaring off tool after reading Seamus's Reply.

I appreciate the help and all the posts! Very impressed with how fast I received replies last night!

Thx!!!

Rick
 
It's pretty easy to make a jig for the sander that holds the tube perpendicular to the sander. I think there's an article in the library on it.

Not that there's anything wrong with using the pen mill, but if you prefer the sander, this would almost certainly solve your problem.
 
Drill the first hole one size under and then the final size ,I use a drill press and change the bit without disturbing the blank.

Use a pen mill.

Put some CA in the drilled blank, then on the tube and insert and turn. Also use medium CA.
 
RickLong said:
jbswearingen said:
How do you drill out your blanks? If you are seeing gaps between the inner wall of the blank and the tube, then you aren't drilling straight OR your method has too much run out. Do you drill on the lathe or on the drill press?
Click to expand...


I use a drill press and a pen vice. Since starting this post, I have made 5 pens using the squaring off tool on my miller instead of the belt sander. This seems to have fixed the problem.

Another question asked: How do i use the belt sander? I always double checked that my table on my belt sander was perpendicular to the sanding belt. I mostly would use a miter gauge to hold the blanks and sand with. This obviously works but not very predictable. 9 out of 10 pens would be good doing it this way. I know that is a 10% fail rate and a bit high.

I've decided to use the squaring off tool after reading Seamus's Reply.

I appreciate the help and all the posts! Very impressed with how fast I received replies last night!

Thx!!!

Rick
Click to expand...

The problem is you are squaring the end of the blank to the side of the blank. What you need to be doing is squaring the end of the blank to the tube. With what you are doing there are too many variables that will make it out of square. 1) table square to sander 2) miter square to sander 3)the long side of the blank perfectly square and 4)the tube drilled and glued in square.

If you look at the jigs for squaring on the sander you will see that they hold the blank by the tube so the tube is square to the sander.
 
This may be redundant by this point, but I'd really appreciate it if you could take a picture of one of your "crooked pens" so I can understand what you're talking about. Can you do that?
 
CSue said:
This may be redundant by this point, but I'd really appreciate it if you could take a picture of one of your "crooked pens" so I can understand what you're talking about. Can you do that?
Click to expand...

Sorry CSue. I took them apart so I could reuse some of the kit parts.

Rick
 
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