What is an Auction?

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Smitty37

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It the business classified rules it clearly states no auctions and I fully agree with, and I am not questioning that policy or suggesting that it should be changed. I also noticed that the rule does not state what constitutes an auction.

To me an auction is an offer to sell to the highest bidder and unless it specifically says otherwise, the bids are public and the seller agrees to accept the highest bid. The bidder also agrees if their bid is the highest bid they will complete the transaction.

My question is this. Does saying "make me an offer" in a classified constitute an auction? In my opinion it should not.

To me "make me an offer" does not imply that the seller will accept the highest or any other offer. Nor are the offers public, nor is the person making the offer bound to complete a transaction if their offer is accepted. They can change their mind.

I would like to see opinions.
 
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It sounds like an auction to me when someone says "make me an offer". I believe you are required to put a price on something offered in the classifieds.
 
"make me an offer"

to me, it says the OP is not expecting the high value and is not sure what they really want in terms of price or trade or a combo

ex
I have a brand new "widget" and it costs me $100. Make me an offer.
I don't expect someone to offer me $100. I might take $50 cash and some item that person is will to exchange.

Auction.
I have a widget up for auction.
Bidder 1. I'll give you $50
Bidder 2. I'll give you $75
Bidder 3. I'll give you $80
Bidder 4. I'll give you $100
Bidder 1 comes back and Bids $120
the cash offer continues to go up and can even pass the original cost of the item..(could be a very hard item to find, something others need/want/collect ect....)
 
Not in the rules

wolftat said:
It sounds like an auction to me when someone says "make me an offer". I believe you are required to put a price on something offered in the classifieds.
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Not unless it is in the AUP it does not require a price in the rules for business classified. Which makes sense - I've seen services (i.e. web site building help) advertised that the price will vary considerably depending on how one uses the service.
 
I'd agree that it implies that the OP doesn't know the value or doesn't want a bidding war BUT I think it could cause a bidding war and such could be considered an auction.

I think it's a fine line but IMO "make me an offer" isn't an auction.

AK
 
wolftat said:
It sounds like an auction to me when someone says "make me an offer". I believe you are required to put a price on something offered in the classifieds.
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I agree with Neil.

One can always find a way to twist words. While the wording of the classifieds is important . . . . so is the intent of the rule. Common sense tells me that "make me an offer" has the same intent as an auction. "Make me an offer" essentially pits one member against another in a bidding situation.

If it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and swims like a duck . . . then it's an auction. :biggrin:
 
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Smitty -- I suspect unstated is that the fundimantal parts of a contract are implicit in the auction

Offer & Acceptance with meeting of the minds
Exchange of Consideration


The reality of buyers remorse is there, but once the offer to pay and acceptance have been accomplished with clear statement of the what is being sold -- tis a contract to be completed with the exchange of consideration.


Did I understand your meaning??
 
somewhat

KenV said:
Smitty -- I suspect unstated is that the fundimantal parts of a contract are implicit in the auction

Offer & Acceptance with meeting of the minds
Exchange of Consideration


The reality of buyers remorse is there, but once the offer to pay and acceptance have been accomplished with clear statement of the what is being sold -- tis a contract to be completed with the exchange of consideration.


Did I understand your meaning??
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Also "enforceable in court" and auction sale is definately enforceable. I don't know about a "make me an offer" offer.
 
It can go both ways. Make me an offer, could just mean " I have no idea what it is worth, but I want to get rid of it. " Or it could be I wanna make the most possible money off this item.

If we start to classify "make me an Offer " as an auction, then all these trades of "I have such and such and will trade it for your interesting item, just PM me" is an auction too. We just have taken cash out of it, and are substituting another item of a certain perceived value. ( if you don't think that count as a sale, trying not claiming it on your taxes when your audited and see what happens).


where do we draw the line.
 
DocStram said:
wolftat said:
It sounds like an auction to me when someone says "make me an offer". I believe you are required to put a price on something offered in the classifieds.
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I agree with Neil.

One can always find a way to twist words. While the wording of the classifieds is important . . . . so is the intent of the rule. Common sense tells me that "make me an offer" has the same intent as an auction. "Make me an offer" essentially pits one member against another in a bidding situation.

If it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and swims like a duck . . . then it's an auction. :biggrin:
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Hmmmmm example "I have 1000 pens for sale in 100 packages of 10. Retail value is $20.00 per package. Make me an offer for any number or all of the packages." That is an auction? I don't think so. That is really an tentative offer to sell below retail.
 
I think make an offer money wise should fall under auction. Now a make me an offer trade, such as I have an extra collet chuck with 5 collets, I need blanks and kits, make me an offer would be alright I would think.

So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
 
Make me an offer

I think "make me an offer" usually means I will take the first acceptable offer regardless of when it comes in and no time frame is specified.

Doesn't "auction" imply that I will accept bids for a specific period of time then accept the highest bid. I know Ed was very specific about when the auction ended and bids sent after that were ignored even if they were higher.

You've probably seen auto ads saying "Make us an offer" - do you think those dealers are conducting an auction? (they usually also say "No reasonable offer refused" and "all vehicles offered subject to prior sale"
 
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A silent auction is still an auction. When you're having people bid on an item for sale, you're not conducting a business transaction, but rather are conducting an auction.

Semantical arguments about the lack of a time frame or the definition of 'acceptable offer' do not change the perception that members are 'bidding' against each other, in a blind eBay sort of auction with an unknown reserve.

Auctions are prohibited in the business classifieds, and can only be run for site fundraisers with prior approval from the activities manager, and then only in the appropriate forum. This is why I removed the auction thread.

Andrew
assistant moderator
 
But using this formula, wouldn't saying "$100 or best offer" still be considered an auction? Yet to me it implies the seller is willing to take less than the stated price. And that's what I think of when I see "make me an offer," that the seller wants a fair price but is willing to take less than the item is worth.

IPD_Mr said:
I think make an offer money wise should fall under auction. Now a make me an offer trade, such as I have an extra collet chuck with 5 collets, I need blanks and kits, make me an offer would be alright I would think.

So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
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I'd say make me an offer, whether cash or merchandise, is an auction of sorts, as if someone offers you cash and another offers you more cash, you take the most cash, although if an item is offered, you might pick the item not worth quite as much simply becuase the more valuable item is of no need to you, but then you could still say the "cash" has become "need", so now who has the item you need most..still an auction of sorts.

I do think auctions should be allowed, but only in the sense that if you put an item on say ebay, and then advertise that you did so, that should be allowed in my opinion, because the auction is not liable by the IAP in any way since it's actually held off site, and you are simply informing people of its existance..they are not forced to check it out or bid on it. But that's my opinion, and this is not my site, it's a private site owned by someone else, so they say what goes.
 
Interesting responses to an interesting question. I think I actually agree with Smitty on this one. Otherwise, we'd get into wording semantics when someones says; "I have a like new (XXX) for sale. $100 OBO"

An auction implys a bidding process within a set timeframe. If someone says, make me an offer, that the same as saying OBO since the seller is always determining how much they are will to accept for the item.

While I hate it when I find an item for sale that I'd really llke only I'm 30 seconds too late, I much prefer not getting into an auction. I vote for no auctions, but I'm not sure I see Smitty's "make me an offer" as an auction.

Jim Smith (no relation to Smitty, at least not that we know of:wink:)
 
Jim Smith said:
... An auction implys a bidding process within a set timeframe. If someone says, make me an offer, that the same as saying OBO since the seller is always determining how much they are will to accept for the item. ...
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Great point!!!

Auction = bidder defined sale price.
"make an offer" (OBO) = seller defined sale price.

AK
 
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Not about that

maxwell_smart007 said:
A silent auction is still an auction. It still runs for a specific period of time and the bids are public, you can see what has been bid by others. When you're having people bid on an item for sale, you're not conducting a business transaction, but rather are conducting an auction. I agree.

Semantical arguments about the lack of a time frame or the definition of 'acceptable offer' do not change the perception that members are 'bidding' against each other, in a blind eBay sort of auction with an unknown reserve. Ebay auctions have a specific time frame and you can see the highest bid you have to beat.

Auctions are prohibited in the business classifieds, and can only be run for site fundraisers with prior approval from the activities manager, and then only in the appropriate forum. This is why I removed the auction thread.

Andrew
assistant moderator
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Andrew I specifically did not mention that thread and I did not question you on your removal of it. I just reworded it to pass muster reinserted it and sold the stuff to the first offer that came in. There was no bidding and it sold for less than the asking price. In addition I specifically stated I don't oppose the rule.

I don't see it as a matter of semantics Andrew. I see "Make me an offer"
as being just that. When I list something for sale here and I put a price on it, you'd be surprised how many times I will get an unsolicited offer for less than I ask. Every asking price in a venue like this has implied "if you don't like my price make me an offer" attached.

But whether we agree or disagree I think "auction" should be defined in the rules.
 
What if

IPD_Mr said:
I think make an offer money wise should fall under auction. Now a make me an offer trade, such as I have an extra collet chuck with 5 collets, I need blanks and kits, make me an offer would be alright I would think.

So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
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How about this - you get an offer for $50 worth of kits and another for $100.00 worth of blanks. Yet another chimes in with $125.00 worth of kits and blanks. Then someone else says I don't have anything to trade but I'll give you $150 cash and you can by the kits and blanks yourself? Was it "not an auction" as long as no cash was mentioned and you had to figure out which was the best deal for you? Then become an auction when one person offered cash instead of a trade.
 
Smitty37 said:
Andrew I specifically did not mention that thread and I did not question you on your removal of it. I just reworded it to pass muster reinserted it and sold the stuff to the first offer that came in. There was no bidding and it sold for less than the asking price. In addition I specifically stated I don't oppose the rule.

I don't see it as a matter of semantics Andrew. I see "Make me an offer"
as being just that. When I list something for sale here and I put a price on it, you'd be surprised how many times I will get an unsolicited offer for less than I ask. Every asking price in a venue like this has implied "if you don't like my price make me an offer" attached.

But whether we agree or disagree I think "auction" should be defined in the rules.
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Now, if you want to talk semantics ... stating that you don't oppose the rule, then putting a thread asking for public opinions of it and all the while fighting that what you did wasn't wrong IS opposing it.

If you want a modification to the rules - propose it to Jeff. If you wanted opinions (as you first said you did), and this thread was to get a feel for how people feel so that you can get a broader view of it - then you should leave the thread alone instead of constantly influencing it by putting your feedback opposite those that have different views.
 
That is not true.

alphageek said:
Smitty37 said:
Andrew I specifically did not mention that thread and I did not question you on your removal of it. I just reworded it to pass muster reinserted it and sold the stuff to the first offer that came in. There was no bidding and it sold for less than the asking price. In addition I specifically stated I don't oppose the rule.

I don't see it as a matter of semantics Andrew. I see "Make me an offer"
as being just that. When I list something for sale here and I put a price on it, you'd be surprised how many times I will get an unsolicited offer for less than I ask. Every asking price in a venue like this has implied "if you don't like my price make me an offer" attached.

But whether we agree or disagree I think "auction" should be defined in the rules.
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Now, if you want to talk semantics ... stating that you don't oppose the rule, then putting a thread asking for public opinions of it and all the while fighting that what you did wasn't wrong IS opposing it.

If you want a modification to the rules - propose it to Jeff. If you wanted opinions (as you first said you did), and this thread was to get a feel for how people feel so that you can get a broader view of it - then you should leave the thread alone instead of constantly influencing it by putting your feedback opposite those that have different views.
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I did not state anything that can be even remotely considered as "opposing" the rule Dean. I don't oppose it.
 
Smitty37 said:
IPD_Mr said:
I think make an offer money wise should fall under auction. Now a make me an offer trade, such as I have an extra collet chuck with 5 collets, I need blanks and kits, make me an offer would be alright I would think.

So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
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How about this - you get an offer for $50 worth of kits and another for $100.00 worth of blanks. Yet another chimes in with $125.00 worth of kits and blanks. Then someone else says I don't have anything to trade but I'll give you $150 cash and you can by the kits and blanks yourself? Was it "not an auction" as long as no cash was mentioned and you had to figure out which was the best deal for you? Then become an auction when one person offered cash instead of a trade.
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LeRoy you asked for opinions and I gave you mine. Why would you ask for opinions if you are going to debate every one that doesn't fit your thoughts on this? And to answer your question, read what my opinion is.

IPD_Mr said:
So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
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Now if you had said, argue with me and prove me wrong, then we are talking about something different. :biggrin::eek::biggrin:
 
Agreed

maxwell_smart007 said:
We don't want the site to be overrun with links to eBay listings. It's in the rules that you can't post a link to an ebay ad, Jeff...

From the rules:
No E-bay only links: Don't use this forum to only advertise your e-bay store or ad.
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I agree -Personally I wouldn't even allow eBay to be mentioned in an ad and I sure wouldn't point people here to auctions that I run there.
 
I asked another question

IPD_Mr said:
Smitty37 said:
IPD_Mr said:
I think make an offer money wise should fall under auction. Now a make me an offer trade, such as I have an extra collet chuck with 5 collets, I need blanks and kits, make me an offer would be alright I would think.

So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
Click to expand...

How about this - you get an offer for $50 worth of kits and another for $100.00 worth of blanks. Yet another chimes in with $125.00 worth of kits and blanks. Then someone else says I don't have anything to trade but I'll give you $150 cash and you can by the kits and blanks yourself? Was it "not an auction" as long as no cash was mentioned and you had to figure out which was the best deal for you? Then become an auction when one person offered cash instead of a trade.
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LeRoy you asked for opinions and I gave you mine. Why would you ask for opinions if you are going to debate every one that doesn't fit your thoughts on this? And to answer your question, read what my opinion is.

IPD_Mr said:
So to me if it involves money then it is an auction, if it involves product trading, then it falls under bartering.
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Now if you had said, argue with me and prove me wrong, then we are talking about something different. :biggrin::eek::biggrin:
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I did not debate Mike...I asked you another question for clarification. I did not say or imply that your opinion was not valid. I just asked how you would apply it in the scenerio I described. The reason I asked this question is because if the cash bid changes it from a bartering situation to an auction, the buyer - not the seller - would have changed it by inserting an unsolicited cash bid.:smile:
 
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IMOA if the seller says "make me an offer" and someone offers $50. Then some else offers $100 the seller can say SOLD. Where as in an auction I would think buyer one could get another shot to up the price or not.
 
Just an opinon:

The phrase "make an offer" is an invitation for a covenant. That is, the offer made is not a binding contract on the seller. The seller may accept the offer (in which case it becomes a contract), reject it, or make a counteroffer.

An auction is a contract binding on the seller where the compensation (price) is determined by the highest bidder (provided all predefined conditions such as a reserve price are met).

Classified ads that state "make an offer", or "$xx.xx obo", are not auctions.

Regards,
Eric
 
auc·tion (ôk
prime.gif
sh
schwa.gif
n)n.1. A public sale in which property or items of merchandise are sold to the highest bidder.
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/auction

5. past tense and past participle bid To offer or propose (an amount) as a price.
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bidder
 
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