one sided trade

[alphageek]

Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them

Broad comments like this are not acceptable... I'm going to request that Curtis contact you for more information. You said you're not going to mention names, then you put a name that implies a certain person.

Per the AUP: "No personal attacks. Criticize ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated. Broad, negative statements about individuals or businesses are not permitted."

This is the better action to take. For anyone else, please follow this action so both sides of the issue can be looked into.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them

This is uncalled for..

 

[OLDMAN5050]

probably more to the story than being told......... let us not get to badmouthing folk

 

[Texatdurango]

New visitors, Welcome to the IAP........ 2011 version! We're not just pen turners anymore! :frown:

 

[greeneyedblackcat]

Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them

Broad comments like this are not acceptable... I'm going to request that Curtis contact you for more information. You said you're not going to mention names, then you put a name that implies a certain person.

Per the AUP: "No personal attacks. Criticize ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated. Broad, negative statements about individuals or businesses are not permitted."

This is the better action to take. For anyone else, please follow this action so both sides of the issue can be looked into.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

I assume you have the ability to check the Pm's between myself and the other party involved, I think you should do so before chosing sides.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them

Broad comments like this are not acceptable... I'm going to request that Curtis contact you for more information. You said you're not going to mention names, then you put a name that implies a certain person.

Per the AUP: "No personal attacks. Criticize ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated. Broad, negative statements about individuals or businesses are not permitted."

This is the better action to take. For anyone else, please follow this action so both sides of the issue can be looked into.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

I assume you have the ability to check the Pm's between myself and the other party involved, I think you should do so before chosing sides.

Frankly I don't care what is said in a PM, I do expect that members of IAP will behave in a mature and civil manner, publicly airing laundry unless it effects all of us to me, is uncalled for. Damaging two people's reputation for the sake of being right, is it really worth it?

 

[airrat]

Wow :-(

 

[MesquiteMan]

I assume you have the ability to check the Pm's between myself and the other party involved, I think you should do so before chosing sides.

You have assumed wrong! We DO NOT have the ability to read PMs. even Jeff, the owner of IAP, does not have that ability. PM's are just that, PRIVATE.

 

[alphageek]

I assume you have the ability to check the Pm's between myself and the other party involved, I think you should do so before chosing sides.

Jim,

I would like to point out that you made 2 assumptions. Curtis already explained one. I'll explain the other. You assumed that I picked sides. If you read my reply - you will see that I did not. There was not enough information to pick sides and thus the reason I posted so that it could be seen that Curtis was notified.

For those still reading, I will repeat again... If you get the short end of something here on IAP, please start with Curtis in PM -- public postings can cause more grief to all involved.

Dean Charlier
Assistant moderator

 

[kinggabby]

I feel like the horse is dead but it is still being kicked. Most people who have done someone wrong ( unless it was accidental ) won't admit it which is why we have mods.

 

[PR_Princess]

OK before this escalates any further, let me help clear the air.

Some time ago Jim and I had a discussion about him making a pen. It was not for me, but another member here. Call it a "random act of kindness" if you will.

I asked Jim for a dollar value, but Jim also thinking that it was a good idea, said that he would be happy with just a pen in trade... A painted pen. But the pen that he wanted also required the co-operation of another IAP member in making a rather complicated blank. Needless to say there were delays (of which Jim was aware). I also offered to send him an additional pen as I felt that anything I did was nowhere on par. After sometime, I did finally get the blank I needed – but it came right in the middle of the Christmas rush. I put it aside to paint after the holidays, but then forgot it.

I have not heard from Jim since before I got the blank. Until he posted on the forum yesterday. At which point I immediately sent him a PM with my apologies . After arriving home, I did find the blank (still in the original mailing box) along with the other pen. I will be finishing the blank this week and sending it along.

Yes, without a doubt this should have been done long ago. That is my fault, and I am truly sorry. But, a simple PM or email would have generated the same response.

Sorry to "disturb the peace", and thanks to the many folks that have sent PM's to tell me of this thread. Nice to have friends.

 

[jttheclockman]

And here is another example that shoud not have even made the airwaves here. A simple PM or an email would have solved the whole thing. Things happen. I mentioned I just sent a person some blanks for doing the logo work for me some time ago. With all the bad weather we had through the winter I was unable to get to the shop to do any work. I just sent them to him now and he received them with pleasure. I explained I did not forget him but i was busy. These things do happen.


If there happens to be a wall of shame or whatever you call it the names that go up there better be legit and for good reason. Slander is not a good thing to defend. Be careful.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

OK before this escalates any further, let me help clear the air.

Some time ago Jim and I had a discussion about him making a pen. It was not for me, but another member here. Call it a "random act of kindness" if you will.

I asked Jim for a dollar value, but Jim also thinking that it was a good idea, said that he would be happy with just a pen in trade... A painted pen. But the pen that he wanted also required the co-operation of another IAP member in making a rather complicated blank. Needless to say there were delays (of which Jim was aware). I also offered to send him an additional pen as I felt that anything I did was nowhere on par. After sometime, I did finally get the blank I needed – but it came right in the middle of the Christmas rush. I put it aside to paint after the holidays, but then forgot it.

I have not heard from Jim since before I got the blank. Until he posted on the forum yesterday. At which point I immediately sent him a PM with my apologies . After arriving home, I did find the blank (still in the original mailing box) along with the other pen. I will be finishing the blank this week and sending it along.

Yes, without a doubt this should have been done long ago. That is my fault, and I am truly sorry. But, a simple PM or email would have generated the same response.

Sorry to "disturb the peace", and thanks to the many folks that have sent PM's to tell me of this thread. Nice to have friends.

Thank You Dawn,

Clarity and an forgiving heart go a long way here. I hope that both you and Jim can move past this and get back to being pen friends. We all make mistakes, errors etc, heavens I do daily, Just ask Eileen my wife! We all should learn something here and I hope it is that if we are not clear on something, send a PM, pick up the phone or send an email, working things out one on one works to clear of difficulties and avoid unneeded complications in communications.

My best to both you Dawn and Jim, I have confidence that you both are on the right track now.

 

[snyiper]

Really all this over a pen? We have the ability to come online and call someone out but we cant call them or send a PM to see if there is a legit reason for any delay? This is the exact reason we should not have any type of public wall of shame. 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Really all this over a pen? We have the ability to come online and call someone out but we cant call them or send a PM to see if there is a legit reason for any delay? This is the exact reason we should not have any type of public wall of shame. 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

(click) "LIKE"

 

[Scotty]

Good grief, I am NOT opening this thread again. If my name appears on a wall of shame, will someone please let me know? I don't intend to open that thread either. I don't want to know.

 

[omb76]

Good grief, I am NOT opening this thread again. If my name appears on a wall of shame, will someone please let me know? I don't intend to open that thread either. I don't want to know.

LOL! It's like a train wreck, you can't help but look! :biggrin: We should rename the forum to "As the Pen Turns"...

Glad that everything (hopefully) is straightened out now.

 

[DocStram]

Really all this over a pen? . . . . 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

Nope, it's not 13 pages just over somebody's forgetfulness. I see the real intent of this thread focusing upon a bigger issue than just a loss of memory. The thread was sidetracked with a couple of personal issues. But, I think we need a healthy discussion on how to deal with the occasional bottom feeder who purposefully defrauds others.

Maybe the person who "took advantage" of me with my being shortchanged in the amount of $60 or $70 is the same person who is fleecing others. Maybe you'd want to know about it before you entered into a deal with him.

It is for that reason that I am advocating for the public posting of names of those individuals who, after careful review by the mods, are found to be unscrupulous. If I can post this information in the vendor review for a company that I am unhappy with, then what about an individual who is not associated with a business?

I think this is an important dialogue for all of us.

 

[hunter-27]

Really all this over a pen? . . . . 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

Nope, it's not 13 pages just over somebody's forgetfulness. I see the real intent of this thread focusing upon a bigger issue than just a loss of memory. The thread was sidetracked with a couple of personal issues. But, I think we need a healthy discussion on how to deal with the occasional bottom feeder who purposefully defrauds others.

Maybe the person who "took advantage" of me with my being shortchanged in the amount of $60 or $70 is the same person who is fleecing others. Maybe you'd want to know about it before you entered into a deal with him.

It is for that reason that I am advocating for the public posting of names of those individuals who, after careful review by the mods, are found to be unscrupulous. If I can post this information in the vendor review for a company that I am unhappy with, then what about an individual who is not associated with a business?

I think this is an important dialogue for all of us.

Spot on!!

 

[Texatdurango]

Really all this over a pen? We have the ability to come online and call someone out but we cant call them or send a PM to see if there is a legit reason for any delay? This is the exact reason we should not have any type of public wall of shame. 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

Good grief...... Stay with the program Glenn!

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with a simple misunderstanding! The misunderstanding was just a late addition which derailed the discussion about the original problem which was out-and-out intentional fraud! And the more we know about these dishonest members lurking amongst us, the better!

Just something to think about....... Let's say that last year we had such a place to identify dishonest members (crooks, thiefs, etc) then perhaps the very individual responsible for stealing from ALice would have been identified and Alice would have known not to deal with this individual to begin with and this thread would never have happened!

To those of you who STILL think that innocent bystanders will get caught up and have their reputation besmearched, need to think about this a little more!

 

[Russianwolf]

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

 

[glycerine]

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

You're supossed to be sending me EVERYTHING in your shop... I'm still waiting.

 

[omb76]

This is a great thread. Thanks to Alice for opening a great discussion!

I am in favor of identifying bad apples, after thorough investigation and discussion. I believe that we can come up with ways to separate people with truly extenuating circumstances who can't follow through on their commitments from the real crooks, con-artists, and cheaters.

I've just opened a discussion with the management team on this topic and thrown out a few ideas for discussion. I think we can come up with something that will strengthen our community.

I don't think anyone has said they are against identifying those that scam others, but there has to be an acceptable way of doing it. Everyone has a right to their opinion about what should be done, even if it differs from yours... As noted above, Jeff has already said he agrees that something needs to be done and is working with the management team to come up with something. I'm sure that whatever they implement will be in the best interest for the IAP and it's members.

 

[USAFVET98]

I am sorry but I have to add my reply to this.

Every one on this board has been nothing but great since I became a member. Many of us are quite generous as we give just to give and not ask for anything in return. To me this shows good moral character and I can honestly say that 99.8% of the members here are in that category.

That being said, I fell into some tough time with my finds being low so I wasnt able to pay for an item I purchased from a member here and he told me not to worry about it and when I get extra money without breaking myself, to send it. I still havent forgot that and hopefully I will be able to make some money soon so I could pay him in full.

I kept up communication as did he. We havent been in touch lately but Im sure he knows I havent forgot.

Since that and other trades and purchases I have made since becoming a member I have shipped countless items new, used and even services for nothing as my way of paying it forward.

I havent had the means to buy much from exotic, however; I do know they they are among the most stand up, generous and professional people I have ever dealt with. I find it really hard to believe that this was intentional. I mean these are the same people who make it a point to throw in freebies with every package they ship out!:biggrin:

Sorry for this rant, I had to get it off my chest. I was keeping up on this thread and got very upset at that personal attack. Uncalled for and in poor taste!:frown:

 

[Andrew_K99]

The thing that EVERYONE seems to be forgetting about is this is a free online gathering place that is not policed by the moderators. These volunteers watch for profanity and other negative posts in threads; we can not ask them to police our PERSONAL transactions.

They should have their own personal list of 'suspect' (remember inoccent until proven other wise) members and ban them when they have just cause or have multiple complaints against them. They shouldn't have to track down all the information to see if foul play was involved. That is asking a lot for something we all get for free.

Just my 2¢

 

[Russianwolf]

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

You're supossed to be sending me EVERYTHING in your shop... I'm still waiting.

Soon as you send the $45000 for postage......

 

[Smitty37]

Thicker skin

Really all this over a pen? . . . . 13 pages of reading to find out it was a simple out of sight out of mind issue very easy to understand. I think we are sometimes very quick to jump the gun.

Nope, it's not 13 pages just over somebody's forgetfulness. I see the real intent of this thread focusing upon a bigger issue than just a loss of memory. The thread was sidetracked with a couple of personal issues. But, I think we need a healthy discussion on how to deal with the occasional bottom feeder who purposefully defrauds others.

Maybe the person who "took advantage" of me with my being shortchanged in the amount of $60 or $70 is the same person who is fleecing others. Maybe you'd want to know about it before you entered into a deal with him.

It is for that reason that I am advocating for the public posting of names of those individuals who, after careful review by the mods, are found to be unscrupulous. If I can post this information in the vendor review for a company that I am unhappy with, then what about an individual who is not associated with a business?

I think this is an important dialogue for all of us.

Vendors have thicker skin.

 

[GoodTurns]

okay, I admit it, it was me.

Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.

Spoken like a married man! I believe I have the same speech on tape somewhere at home :biggrin:!

 

[Sylvanite]

If I were in Jeff's shoes, I'd be happy if the moderators helped out with a cursory investigation, and if a pattern of disreputable acts appeared, take action up to the point of banning someone from the site. My primary concerns would be helping out the members, and not placing too large a burden on the mods.

I'd be very leery, however, of having a publlicly viewable, site-sponsored, moderator maintained list of "dishonest" dealings. That might open him up to claims of libel (whether they be founded or not).

Regards,
Eric

 

[MesquiteMan]

If I were in Jeff's shoes, I'd be happy if the moderators helped out with a cursory investigation, and if a pattern of disreputable acts appeared, take action up to the point of banning someone from the site. My primary concerns would be helping out the members, and not placing too large a burden on the mods.

I'd be very leery, however, of having a publlicly viewable, site-sponsored, moderator maintained list of "dishonest" dealings. That might open him up to claims of libel (whether they be founded or not).

Regards,
Eric

I already do the investigation when it is brought to my attention and take action as necessary. Have done it a number of times in the past and will do it again in the future as the need arises.

 

[JerrySambrook]

Mike,

Are we related to the same close person? :biggrin:

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

 

[Russianwolf]

Don't know, but I'd wage they went to the same "finishing" school.

Mike,

Are we related to the same close person? :biggrin:

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

 

[Gin N' Tonic]

Not trying to sound negative. But how does that help stop them from hurting people on trades and things that are not under the realm of group activities? What if after an investigation then place them on a list of people we should not deal with. That way they have a chance to tell their side and make things right first.... then if the fail than then black list openly?

I have to agree with Dave on this. Baring people from participating in group activities does nothing to stop what Alice went through and what others have silently encountered. This is a rare occurrence on IAP but it does happen, and it probably happens much more than we all know. We are talking about transactions on the IAP outside the jurisdiction of the activities manager.

I do not think it should be the job of the moderators to police these people. I do think that the members of IAP are more than capable of policing these people. Like Mike R. said earlier, situations change for people in a blink of an eye, and there may be good reason they have not lived up to their part of the agreement. That of course would not excuse failing to be up from with the person you have the agreement with.

Anything that is considered would have to approved by Jeff.

Rare occurrence? It's happened to me 5 times! It is precisely the reason why I will never again participate in a PITH or make a trade with another member on this forum. I used to send pen kits, blanks and even tools to members of this forum who were just starting out with the understanding that it was a TRADE for a single handcrafted pen. A simple slimline was all that was needed to fulfill their end of the bargain which I did not think was asking too much since I sent more than enough kits and material. Many of our members did send me a pen and those are the most treasured pens in my collection.

For the record, I have made 23 trades including 3 PITH's of which I was stiffed once and the rest of the times were from sending stuff to members and never hearing from them again. Some of these members have since moved on but I know of one or two that are still here and one of them have done it to other members who I have talked to so it might be more of a widespread problem than management knows. Unfortunately the only solution for me is to just stop participating.

 

[alphageek]

Rare occurrence? It's happened to me 5 times! It is precisely the reason why I will never again participate in a PITH or make a trade with another member on this forum. I used to send pen kits, blanks and even tools to members of this forum who were just starting out with the understanding that it was a TRADE for a single handcrafted pen. A simple slimline was all that was needed to fulfill their end of the bargain which I did not think was asking too much since I sent more than enough kits and material. Many of our members did send me a pen and those are the most treasured pens in my collection.

For the record, I have made 23 trades including 3 PITH's of which I was stiffed once and the rest of the times were from sending stuff to members and never hearing from them again. Some of these members have since moved on but I know of one or two that are still here and one of them have done it to other members who I have talked to so it might be more of a widespread problem than management knows. Unfortunately the only solution for me is to just stop participating.

If its more wide than management knows, its because no-one is reporting it to them... I would say please don't just stop participating... Report it... If nothing else, Curtis or Jeff can be another voice to help 'push' people to live up to their side of the bargain AND if management have more information, then better decisions can be made for policies on the site.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

 

[Gin N' Tonic]

Rare occurrence? It's happened to me 5 times! It is precisely the reason why I will never again participate in a PITH or make a trade with another member on this forum. I used to send pen kits, blanks and even tools to members of this forum who were just starting out with the understanding that it was a TRADE for a single handcrafted pen. A simple slimline was all that was needed to fulfill their end of the bargain which I did not think was asking too much since I sent more than enough kits and material. Many of our members did send me a pen and those are the most treasured pens in my collection.

For the record, I have made 23 trades including 3 PITH's of which I was stiffed once and the rest of the times were from sending stuff to members and never hearing from them again. Some of these members have since moved on but I know of one or two that are still here and one of them have done it to other members who I have talked to so it might be more of a widespread problem than management knows. Unfortunately the only solution for me is to just stop participating.

If its more wide than management knows, its because no-one is reporting it to them... I would say please don't just stop participating... Report it... If nothing else, Curtis or Jeff can be another voice to help 'push' people to live up to their side of the bargain AND if management have more information, then better decisions can be made for policies on the site.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

It WAS mentioned, and ignored. As far as I am concerned it's over and done with. Safer for me that way.

 

[Gin N' Tonic]

OK Guys, I just got home from a long day of trimming a house I have under construction. The proper way of dealing with this is to report it to me or Jeff. If it is an official IAP activity, then report it to Mike.

Believe me, we do take these things seriously and have taken action many times in the past that no one was aware of. Alice contacted me about a problem many months ago and I sent the person a PM. I did not hear back from Alice so I assumed it had been taken care of. I am not sure if this is the same person/situation or a different one. Alice, if it is the same person, please let me know via PM and send me the name again as well as any PMs you may have. I will take it from there.

As for others...if you have gotten the short end of the stick, PLEASE let me know. We can't fix something if we are not aware of it! We have dealt or attempted to deal with any and all issues that have been brought to our attention.

Like said above, transactions are between members so there is nothing we can do about the transaction but I guarantee you, if it is not rectified, the offending person be ejected from the site. We have done it before and will not hesitate to do it again. We already have provisions in the TOS and AUP to handle this and do not need any new rules.

As for a list, that isn't happening! (that is, unless Jeff decides to do it!)

Sorry Curtis but from my experience that statement is a load of crap. I've spoken to you about this more than once and even brought it up to "the management" when I was involved there and NOTHING was done. Hopefully with more parties involved things are being done now. Please excuse me for being cynical but I've seen this all before.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

okay, I admit it, it was me.


Not sure how, or why, but according to someone very close to me, Its always my fault. Doesn't matter if I did it, didn't do it, was on the other side of the planet, was asleep at the time. My fault.

So there, you have your culprit.


Now back to our regular programming.


By the way, if I have anything outstanding (other than the purpleheart) let me know.

Wow if ever there were words of a married man this is it!:biggrin:

 

[mbroberg]

There are attempts being made to curtail this type of activity when it comes to IAP Activities. Rules are now in place that prohibit individuals from participating in activities if their public profile is not complete, so we at least know the name of people participating and where they live. If it is reported to me that someone has not met there obligations during an activity they will not be allowed to participate in future activities until they do. There are occassions where things come up that interfer with IAP activities. When those situations arise, communication is important.

It is unfortunate that anyone gets cheated as a result of involvement in an IAP activity. When that happens, and it is reported, steps will be taken to resolve the problem. If it is not reported then there is nothing that will be done.

Sent from my DROID2 using Forum Runner