homemade carbide insert tool

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glycerine

glycerine

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Aug 7, 2009
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Not that I have anything against the guys selling carbide insert tools here on the IAP, but I just like to make things myself.
Finished up my own tool the other night. 1/2 steel rod, bocote handle and a copper ferrule. The steel rod goes almost all the way through the handle. I think there's about an inch at the end that's solid wood. I used my bench grinder, sander, and a file to shape the steel. drilled and tapped it to match the screw I had bought to fit the hole in the bits. mounted it in my scroll chuck to sand and polish it. Used a copper pipe fitting to make the ferrule, just cut off what I needed. Turned the handle on my lathe, sprayed it with some spray acrylic and glued it all together.
I think the inserts I got were 14mm x 2mm. I'll have to look up where I got them if anyone is interested, but I got 10 of them for around $15 plus shipping.

 
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Very nice job! One concern though, there may not be enough support for the square inserts. I've read they can be quite brittle and may chip without proper support. I'd be interested in where you picked up the inserts from.

AK
 
Nice job on the tool!! I have made 4 of those with both round and square stock. Just a note, I wound get tighter on the backing tough just the keep the bit fromn turning. I get my bits from globaltooling.com out of Oregon @ $2.35 each. You must order by packs of 10 but still it beats woodcraft prices. Where did you get yours??

Gary
 
SGM Retired said:
Nice job on the tool!! I have made 4 of those with both round and square stock. Just a note, I wound get tighter on the backing tough just the keep the bit fromn turning. I get my bits from globaltooling.com out of Oregon @ $2.35 each. You must order by packs of 10 but still it beats woodcraft prices. Where did you get yours??

Gary
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Thanks!
I looked and Global Tooling & Supply is exactly where I bought my inserts! I got the "14mm x 14mm x 2.0mm - 4-edge - Radius Corners" and they are currently listed at $1.56 each. Yeah, you have to buy in multiples of 10, but they're so cheap, it's not that big of a deal.
And for those wondering about the steel, I used a 1/2 inch round 48 inch long steel rod from Home Depot. You could get several tools out of a 4 foot length. I also plan on making a chatter tool...
 
Looks good. I made my own some time ago using a round incert. Only thing about the round stock (as mine is, and why I don't use it until....) is that you really have to have a good grip. If you use it on an angle using the corner of the incert it will want to turn in your hand on you. Just my experience....I intend to put a flat on the underside of mine.
 
Yeah, a very nice looking tool, indeed...!

There are a few details tough that "may" give you some trouble, both have been mentioned here, and I can confirm from the making of my own carbide tipped tools that, the square bar is much better than the round rod, cutting a flat on the round bottom, unless is 14 to 16mm diameter rod, it will weaken the tool considerably.

The difference between the rod and the bar steals, as the tool's "shaft" is a lot more noticeable when carbide tipped tools are use to turn bigger pieces of wood than pen blanks, round shafts would be even too dangerous to use on them...!

In regards to the other detail, is the carbide inserts "housing" base where the inserts are screwed in, this should support all the insert body, otherwise it may shatter. If the inserts are thin and you have the option of countersink whole or just a normal straight hole, I would suggest to select the straight hole ones and make sure you get a (T) screw, this will support and hold the insert a lot better and will less prone to brake (snap).

I use inserts from 10mm to 17mm and all mounted on my own made tools, some a even double ended, where 2 different size inserts are mounted into the ends of a square stainless still bar of size to match the inserts (the smaller one). A simple grab screw releases the shaft from the handle, which is then tighten again after the ends have been swapped over...!

Making your own tools is a very enjoyable thing, and can save you a far amount of money BUT, not always. Unless you have all the equipment and some tool making basics to make your own tools, this can very rapidly become a very expensive exercise, and a good way to get an emergency visit to the hospital.:eek:

There are certain rules and technical requirements to make "safe" tools, and unless you know what you are doing, I suggest you to buy a proper made toll...!:wink:

I have no problems with people making their own tools but I thing important to make sure that, only because some can make their own, this don't mean that, every one can, is easy, safe and even functional. There is not a great deal of savings, if you have to pay premium prices for every item require to make a tool, apart from the handle, even then, one may need to consider, as making a proper handle can become a lot more than you bargain for...!:frown:

Just a friendly word of caution...!

Cheers
George
 
Simplex said:
Very cool. Does anyone happen to know if the inserts come in HSS?
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Here is an outfit that make HSS inserts for the metal industry that might be able to help you.

http://arwarnerco.com/index.html

Now the question I need to ask you is why buy HSS inserts instead of just getting a HSS lathe tool (scraper) to begin with and sharpen it yourself? The edges of both will last about the same amount of time before it needs to be sharpened or rotated/changed and by the time a standard scraper has been sharpened to the point of throwing it away, the cost of the same number of inserts would have bought you a new lathe or two.

Pete
 
I have to agree with Paul here with the round stock, you have to approach straight and square and have a good grip as it will try to bite and roll the tool. I think I will try to make a square one next. The round one works fine and it will remind you when you tilt it a little.
 
Curly said:
Simplex said:
Very cool. Does anyone happen to know if the inserts come in HSS?
Click to expand...

Here is an outfit that make HSS inserts for the metal industry that might be able to help you.

[
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Inserts that are made for the "metal" trade do NOT work well for turning wood, acrylic. They're a different design and the angle of the insert is not well suited to make the "cuts" that pen turners require. Carbide inserts are much superior to HSS and costs are "reasonable" . A 30 degrees angle is well suited to cut blanks (and yes, even antler) that we use.
 
wood-of-1kind said:
Inserts that are made for the "metal" trade do NOT work well for turning wood, acrylic. They're a different design and the angle of the insert is not well suited to make the "cuts" that pen turners require. Carbide inserts are much superior to HSS and costs are "reasonable" . A 30 degrees angle is well suited to cut blanks (and yes, even antler) that we use.
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Peter; I have a carbide insert tool I purchased from Joebill1 on ebay and it is my preferred tool for hard Trustones and M3 metal blanks. It just peels off a ribbon when used as a scraper (below center). I have to be careful with it to just kiss the blank. Pushing will take off material at a phenomenal rate!

The inserts with sharper (more acute) angles tend to be too "grabby" for acrylic but work well for wood.
 
randyrls said:
wood-of-1kind said:
The inserts with sharper (more acute) angles tend to be too "grabby" for acrylic but work well for wood.
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Well stated, but the "round" carbide that I sell with a 30 degree angle prevents the "grabby" effect even on acrylic. It's all based on the way it's designed. Not "all" round carbide inserts are built alike. The secret to avoid the grabbing on the acrylic is to "slow" down on the speed (say 1500 RPM). Whereas "solid" harwood blanks are better suited at higher RPM's. This has been my experience and observations with the tools that I've been selling.
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Jeremy,
That's a great looking tool. It's definitely on my things to do list. I can't wait to see what you do with it. Thanks for posting.
 
Those of you who mentioned the round vs. square, think I could rig up something like the attached pic? It's one of the spiralling tools that CSUSA sells... should definitely allow me to keep my tool from rolling.
 

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glycerine said:
Those of you who mentioned the round vs. square, think I could rig up something like the attached pic? It's one of the spiralling tools that CSUSA sells... should definitely allow me to keep my tool from rolling.
Click to expand...

Save some time and purchase 'square' stock. I use 5/8" bar and it 'sits' real stable on your tool rest. Just suggestions.:smile:
 
I have made several versions of carbide tools, using both the designated "wood" carbide sold by IAP members and EWT, and also those sold by carbide companies that say their cutters can be used on wood. I have not used them long enough to tell which carbide lasts longer or is 'better'...

I originally used square stock - both 1/2" and 5/8". A few months ago I used a piece of 1/2" round because I always use an oval skew at an angle when I turn pens. I used the round shaft tool in this manner for pen turning and really like it. I still finish turn with skew though. I agree that I would probably not use the round shaft tool on something very aggressive. It would 1) want to turn on you, and 2) has less mass than a square shaft.

Good luck and be careful.
 
wood-of-1kind said:
glycerine said:
Those of you who mentioned the round vs. square, think I could rig up something like the attached pic? It's one of the spiralling tools that CSUSA sells... should definitely allow me to keep my tool from rolling.
Click to expand...

Save some time and purchase 'square' stock. I use 5/8" bar and it 'sits' real stable on your tool rest. Just suggestions.:smile:
Click to expand...

where do you get your steel? I haven't found any square bar locally...
 
The big box stores do carry some limited steel stock, but also charge a lot for it (relatively speaking). Your best bet is to find a local steel fabrication place. I have purchased a lot of the steel I have used at a scrap rate of $0.55/lb. I just found odd and ends pieces that I could make do with.

I have used both hot and cold rolled. The cold is definitely smoother. I believe most of the retail carbide tools use stainless. You could also use drill rod for the round stock, but it is harder to work with. Enco is a good place for drill rod.
 
Just an update on how it's been working. So far, I like it alot. It makes VERY fast work of rounding large pieces of wood. I haven't really used it on any pen blanks yet. For roughing, I just push it straight in as if I were using a parting tool. The I'll clean up the ridges by going sideways. Going side to side, it does get grabby, but as long as I anticipate that, I haven't had any issues. I am using the bits with the slightly rounded corners, so I think that helps. I still plan on building something to slide over it that has a flat bottom. We'll see how differently it works... but I agree that it would be a little easier to use if the bar were square instead of round.
 
glycerine said:
wood-of-1kind said:
glycerine said:
Those of you who mentioned the round vs. square, think I could rig up something like the attached pic? It's one of the spiralling tools that CSUSA sells... should definitely allow me to keep my tool from rolling.
Click to expand...

Save some time and purchase 'square' stock. I use 5/8" bar and it 'sits' real stable on your tool rest. Just suggestions.:smile:
Click to expand...

where do you get your steel? I haven't found any square bar locally...
Click to expand...


I get my bar stock from Metals Supermarket here in Toronto, Canada. Should be readily available from any retailer that handles 'metals'. Good thing is that I do not have to purchase a lot and pricing is reasonable.
 
Yeah, after I saw Gary's post about Fastenal, I had not even thought to check there. I have several of those around and looked online and they have the 1/2 keystock in stock... :-)
 
By the way, what's the difference in all the different types of steel? Is there a difference in using the key stock or just sauare bar in an application like this?
 
I just get the cheapest stock I can, don't think I'll bend any that I use on wood. You could get into a jam if useing a long piece of steel and having the tool rest far from the working surface. Try Lowes and Homedepot also, they give military discount. Just my take.
 
glycerine said:
By the way, what's the difference in all the different types of steel? Is there a difference in using the key stock or just sauare bar in an application like this?
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In this application, there is no difference. When it comes to something to hold an insert, "steel is steel". Some may disagree with that, but the only property of steel you need to be interested in is its modulus of elasticity, which tells you how easy it is to bend. Just about all steel alloys, that I am aware of, have essentially the same MoE, there is no statistical difference to say that one steel is better than the other. I have made metal turning insert holders (for turning metal on a metal lathe) using key stock sold at the BORG's, they work fine. Just that they may not be the best value, if you need a lot of square stock. I bought the stock because I could buy it right away and have an insert holder that same day, use whatever is cheaper, easier to get or whatever your main criteria is for choosing the stock you use.

Just to be clear, the above only applies to carbide insert holding. All the variety of steel alloys exist for a reason and in other applications the properties of the different alloys do come into play and you do need to choose the correct alloy to meet the criteria. In this case, the only property that really matters is the bending strength. Some may say that wear resistance could be a factor, but I cannot see that being an issue outside of mass production.

Paul
 
Jeremy -- Look at some JBWeld to tighten up your fit on the insert. Pam is a pretty good release agent for the screw and insert. The better the fit on the bottom and the back, the less vibration and better support to the insert. JBWeld is not magic, but some days it gets close.
 
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