one sided trade

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Would a feedback rating like what is used on ebay work? That rating could be displayed next to the users id with number of combined transactions both as a buyer and seller. It would provide some quick info as to how others transactions have gone. Depending on how labor intensive it would be maybe even provide a space in the user profile for a short comment on how your transaction went. This would lessen the burden on the management team I would think as it would give more info to the members when dealing with folks that we may not be that familiar with.
 
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keithkarl2007 said:
No he is no longer on the board so he can't be Pm,d. I can't find the messages we exchanged, they seem to have disappeared but Alice has kindly sent me his postal address to contact him.
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If you do a search on his name, then find a post of his, you can click on his name and there should be a "send email to RAdams" option also...

Also, I'm not making any excuses for him, but I know that around the time he left the forum/got banned, his daughter wasn't doing well. She has some form of brain cancer. I don't know how she is lately or if she's even still here, but I know he's been going through alot, so just keep that in mind when you contact him.
 
I guess but I still find it odd that both myself and Alice were duped around the same time and only 2-3 days apart. Anyway, nothing can be done. I was going to write to him but I don't think I'll waste any more time on it. Feel bad enough having wasted over $150 on him.
 
Would a moderated list of incomplete trades be a possibility. To get on the list an email would have to be sent to the moderator copied to the non completer. It would then be up to the moderator to decide if they should be publically listed depending on how many disputes involved or other crireria.

Mike the Pipe in Pangbourne by the Thames
 
I guess i should let it go but it appears more than myself and Alice were duped by Radams. He is no longer here so if any other member had the same happen please speak up. I just want to know how many people were affected and what if anything could have been done to prevent it.
 
Nope

omb76 said:
Would a feedback rating like what is used on ebay work? That rating could be displayed next to the users id with number of combined transactions both as a buyer and seller. It would provide some quick info as to how others transactions have gone. Depending on how labor intensive it would be maybe even provide a space in the user profile for a short comment on how your transaction went. This would lessen the burden on the management team I would think as it would give more info to the members when dealing with folks that we may not be that familiar with.
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Feedback like ebay's is useless and has no meaning what-so-ever. While buyers can leave negative feedback for sellers the sellers can not leave negative feedback for buyers. I think that buyer's default about twice or three times as often as sellers there if for no other reason the buyer has recourse through PayPal and eBay. Usually if a buyer defaults the seller loses no more than his listing fee.
 
Hmmmm

keithkarl2007 said:
I guess i should let it go but it appears more than myself and Alice were duped by Radams. He is no longer here so if any other member had the same happen please speak up. I just want to know how many people were affected and what if anything could have been done to prevent it.
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As I recollect you must have been snookered about the time he was having a lot of problems and arguments with the moderators about a number of other things as well. Just before he left (I knew he left but didn't know he was banned) it seems like there were a lot of complaints from him about how he was being treated.
 
If I'm surprised at all, it's not that there are unscrupulous people out there, but that so many are so honest. The IAP is one of the best groups of people I've ever dealt with.

Long ago, at a Miami craft show, I saw a piece of handpainted cracked-glaze pottery that I really liked. The price was pretty high, but my wife and I kept being drawn back to it. Eventually, we decided to buy it after all but when we went back it had already been sold. I described the piece to the artist, who offered to make me a similar piece. Amazingly, he didn't want any up front money. Instead, he shipped the completed jar to me for approval before payment.

I aspire to that level of customer service in my dealings.

Regards,
Eric
 
It seems that even if someone is banned you can still email and receive emails via IAP. I had befriended RAdams and he is still showing on my friends list and I clicked on his profile info and looks as if I could still contact him VIA this site.
 
Smitty37 said:
omb76 said:
Would a feedback rating like what is used on ebay work? That rating could be displayed next to the users id with number of combined transactions both as a buyer and seller. It would provide some quick info as to how others transactions have gone. Depending on how labor intensive it would be maybe even provide a space in the user profile for a short comment on how your transaction went. This would lessen the burden on the management team I would think as it would give more info to the members when dealing with folks that we may not be that familiar with.
Click to expand...

Feedback like ebay's is useless and has no meaning what-so-ever. While buyers can leave negative feedback for sellers the sellers can not leave negative feedback for buyers. I think that buyer's default about twice or three times as often as sellers there if for no other reason the buyer has recourse through PayPal and eBay. Usually if a buyer defaults the seller loses no more than his listing fee.
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The nice thing about being our own site is that we can modify it the way we want and to what would work best for us. There's no reason that sellers shouldn't be able to leave feedback for the buyers either. The IAP is a much smaller organization than ebay so the feedback system would have more meaning here. It's a place to start and is much better than a public flogging would be. That only creates negative feelings which are quite contagious. There is no sure fire way to keep the bad out, it's a part of life, however we can learn to adapt and change the way we do things to minimize our exposure to it. Again, this is just an idea that I think would be beneficial as it's our responsibility as members to put out ideas and not just complain to our management team and expect them to fix it. We need to help make this site what we want it to be.
 
I like the idea about feedback like eBay, although the software costs would probably be crazy and that's even if vbulletin could support it.

I don't envy the mods with this type of discussion because the most they can really do is ban people and that may be with hearsay information. It could add a lot of work to a volunteer position.

AK
 
Well I just found out that I am a member of this duping party and did not know it. I actually pushed to have people try and help this person when we all thought he had a sick daughter. So not only did I push to "help" him I also sent a money order to assist. For my part I am truly sorry. Had I have known about his person I would not have done my part. I hope everyone forgives me.
 
Nobody should feel they are responsible for these things. The last thing I'm going to add to this is "What goes around comes around!"
 
Folks, let's please return the discussion to a more general discussion regarding people who do not fulfill their obligations. It is not a good idea to be lynching a person who is no longer a member here and can not defend themselves.

Thank you.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
 
Thanks Curtis -- Many are caught up in the elusive "what is right" and "what is fair".

I enter into each of the different contributions, trades, exchanges, etc with the hope that it will all work out and a firm expectation that if it does not, that is one of those costs in life. I tend not to go back to the same well again if the water was bad, but neither to I expect to put a Red "P" on the breast on someone named Hester.

I think we do better than the normal population here at IAP -- but there are no character references required to join this "motley crew" of creative souls.
 
Reading several of these posts, the focus seems to be on "trades". I think the sentiments should spread out to anyone doing unsavory things on the forum, whether it be out-and-out fraud, deliberately misrepresenting items being sold, to welching on deals.
 
MesquiteMan said:
Folks, let's please return the discussion to a more general discussion regarding people who do not fulfill their obligations. It is not a good idea to be lynching a person who is no longer a member here and can not defend themselves.

Thank you.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
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Your right I am sorry. Forgive me for stirring up things. That was not my intentions.
 
Texatdurango said:
Reading several of these posts, the focus seems to be on "trades". I think the sentiments should spread out to anyone doing unsavory things on the forum, whether it be out-and-out fraud, deliberately misrepresenting items being sold, to welching on deals.
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George, the same thing applies to anyone that is being disreputable. Of course, the burden of proof becomes an issue but if it can indeed be proven, then we will deal with it.
 
This is a great thread. Thanks to Alice for opening a great discussion!

I am in favor of identifying bad apples, after thorough investigation and discussion. I believe that we can come up with ways to separate people with truly extenuating circumstances who can't follow through on their commitments from the real crooks, con-artists, and cheaters.

I've just opened a discussion with the management team on this topic and thrown out a few ideas for discussion. I think we can come up with something that will strengthen our community.
 
jeff said:
This is a great thread. Thanks to Alice for opening a great discussion!

I am in favor of identifying bad apples, after thorough investigation and discussion. I believe that we can come up with ways to separate people with truly extenuating circumstances who can't follow through on their commitments from the real crooks, con-artists, and cheaters.

I've just opened a discussion with the management team on this topic and thrown out a few ideas for discussion. I think we can come up with something that will strengthen our community.
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This is really good news. Thanks for letting us know.
 
I know there may be small cases where 1 or 2 trades weren't fulfilled, but one person in particular was a true con-artist and conned possibly up to 30 members fraudulently. Would a matter that severe need more than investigation from the forum moderators?
 
The Weasel List

Texatdurango said:
I realize that there are many liberal thinking folks on this forum that normally would bend over backwards WAY more than I ever would in instances like this but it's time we stop being silent victoms and say enough is enough, not everyone deserves a dozen chances to do the right thing. Why should a decent person like Alice have to go through this nonsense? Here is my feeling on the subject.

I think a "STICKY" thread needs to be in place in the classified forums as well as the casual converstation forum. When a person such as described above is mentioned to a moderator, then the moderator could notify them and demand immediate action or to at least hear their side of the story. If satisfied that their name warrants being added to an "Unsavory individuals with low moral character" list, then so be it! The crooks hanging around the forum are not going to identify themselves, it's up to us to help them out.

I think it's high time that these characters are no longer allowed to prey on members with, up until now, total impunity!

Go get 'em moderator team, start 2011 off with a good idea!
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I reckon that I'm one of those "liberal thinking folks" that my friend George is referring to. In my five years as a member, I have had only one experience where I was shafted by another member. He still comes around and he knows who he is. I wrote to him at least three times and complained. I didn't bother to involve the mods since I knew that Jeff would probably just try to make it up out of his own pocket. So, I let it go.

On the other hand, over the past five years, there have been plenty of times when another member has done something really special for me. Just by coincidence, one of those special things happened to me this evening.

As I've been thinking about George's suggestions . . . . I thought to myself . . . we never hesitate to publicly think the "do gooders" . . . then why shouldn't we publicly identify the "weasels"?

I'm with George on this one. When a member does something unscrupulous, report it to the mods . . . let them make the call. Then have them post the name of the weasel. Come to think of it, a good title for the thread might be "The Weasel List".
 
For some reason I just can not wrap my head around this. First let me say all the trading I see done here and the buying from one another I have not recalled there being an instance of scams. Maybe because they have been handled behind the scenes is the reason. I know I am in the middle of getting a thank you package together for someone who helped me with my logo some time ago and i have been lax with this but I will be sending in the next day or two. He has told me he wants nothing but i don't feel right.

I guess that is my point. How can someone feel right about taking advantage of people they became friends with here. I know there are some that can get on ones nerves and maybe I am one to some also but to take this out on someone or someone else by doing things that are being mentioned is unscrupulous to say the least. I just can not wrap my head around this concept. many times you read of good will gestures here because of hardships and if this is the case when someone wants to make a trade then just mention it to the person you are trading with and maybe something else can be worked out. But to screw over individuals just for the sake of doing it takes some moxy to say the least. I am not sure any list would deter this individual but it would warn others and maybe safe them from the same scam. Banning is the way to go and 2 chances is all I would give.

It is a little mindboggling that someone would come to a site and do things like this. I must be living in a different world.
 
MesquiteMan said:
..... then we will deal with it.
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you grab the pitchforks, I've got the torches!

Very interesting thread and a pretty good job on staying on course! A very restrained airing of a grievance, followed by sympathy and commiseration, a lynch mob and now a return to the search for an answer. I expect something good and appropriate will come from it!

I am a buyer, seller, giver and trader here. As George said, swaps seem to be a focal point. My goal whenever I "swap" is to make sure that my trading partner gets the best of the deal. I may not have been successful every time, but I hope I have not disappointed either! I have only been ******* once, and it was by one of our better known former members.

A rating system of some sort might work, but needs to be tempered with verifiable comments when selecting a "negative" rating. A "swap" that meets the stated criteria of, say a blank swap, should not get a negative rating because the receiver does not like the blanks received. The sender may have sent some of their very best blanks in that box! Expectations and perceived value will always be a factor in these trades. (of course, if they just plain don't send the box....get the torches!)
 
First I just want to say this is a great site full of great people. Sadly some take advantage of that it seems.

People here have big hearts. I found that out first hand a few years ago and I will not forget that. My time here lessened due to having to work alot of extra hours to pay bills and I hope no one ever took that as anything negative. We still have a huge amount of bills now but we are doing better so I can spend some time to myself finally.

I have been involved in a couple swaps with other members. I hope they were as happy as I was with them.

If I can help with elody with making up for the loss I will glady put something together for her and send it off.
 
Most settle

Purchases and trades are not the same - a purchase is an exchange of money for goods and a trade is barter in which both parties reach an agreement that item A from trader A is worth the same as item B from trader B. Purchases are pretty straight forward - If I sell you something and you've paid for it, I owe it to you. If you don't like it, return it and get your money back - Unless --- it was clearly sold to you "as is" and possible problems described.

In a trade there are only two things where a party has a complaint 1) They never received the item. and, 2) the item they received is not the item they bartered for. If you don't like the item you have no recourse unless it was misrepresented by posting a picture of something else or describing the item as something it is not. If you knowingly take in trade a goat for a horse you have no complaint when you have to walk home.

So when thinking about handling problems here you need to think in terms of vendor/buyer, individual seller/buyer and trader/trader and how they are handled in my mind should not necessarily be the same.
 
jeff said:
This is a great thread. Thanks to Alice for opening a great discussion!

I am in favor of identifying bad apples, after thorough investigation and discussion. I believe that we can come up with ways to separate people with truly extenuating circumstances who can't follow through on their commitments from the real crooks, con-artists, and cheaters.

I've just opened a discussion with the management team on this topic and thrown out a few ideas for discussion. I think we can come up with something that will strengthen our community.
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I'm of the opinion this is necessary and proper.
Having said that, I also think this is the wonderful thing about the IAP.
Irrespective of what each of us believes, at some point a definitive answer comes forth and whatever we think of the decision,
we know what it is and who owns it.
Thanks Mr. NASA. :biggrin:
 
Hello All!!!
I don't usually get involved in these things but this time I will.

There are some really great people here that I have had the pleasure of meeting and dealing with.

I have seen a couple that I had issues with.but I just keep my mouth closed.

I do think that when someone does others wrong their name should be put on a list for the rest of us to see so we don't get hurt by the same person.

Maybe if we had a list like that people would be less likely to do someone else wrong knowing they were going to be put on the (Bad apples list)

I mean you know if we get done wrong by say woodcraft or penn state or one of the others we don't hesitate to tell each other about that.

Thanks for at least letting me say how I feel.
And a million thanks for the majority of great people and never ending knowledge!
JIM
 
corian king said:
Hello All!!!
I don't usually get involved in these things but this time I will.

There are some really great people here that I have had the pleasure of meeting and dealing with.

I have seen a couple that I had issues with.but I just keep my mouth closed.

I do think that when someone does others wrong their name should be put on a list for the rest of us to see so we don't get hurt by the same person.

Maybe if we had a list like that people would be less likely to do someone else wrong knowing they were going to be put on the (Bad apples list)

I mean you know if we get done wrong by say woodcraft or penn state or one of the others we don't hesitate to tell each other about that.

Thanks for at least letting me say how I feel.
And a million thanks for the majority of great people and never ending knowledge!
JIM
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You can already do that now. It is called the Vendor Review section as Pat mentions above. There is nothing that prevents folks from stepping up and posting a negative review of a vendor.
 
. . . and now things are going to get interesting. It's one thing to point out the name of an unscrupulous weasel who blatantly fleeces others with a "pay now - play later" plan . . . . but a whole other matter when a well respected member is accused of not following through on a "pen for pen" trade.

Whatever the circumstances, this is a perfect example of why an IAP member, regardless of their status, should be treated as innocent until the mods gather the necessary information.

However, if an IAP member is found guilty of cheating, shortchanging, or scamming others . . . then the mods have the responsibility of identifying the weasel to all.

And, if an accused member is found innocent, then appropriate action should be taken against those who smear another's name.

Let the parties involved, under the mods' direction, work this out . . . and every one else sit tight. Just my two cents.
 
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greeneyedblackcat said:
Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them :(
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We don't know what the story is, but I'll bet there is more to it then "I got burned". And what was the point of not using her name if your going to front her out anyway?
 
I think that this is beginning to get off track of the original comment. I see it becoming something that should be settled or discussed off line. Most of the discussion about ways to allow all to see if someone if scamming or not honoring a commitment have validity, but turning personal should be kept personal or dealt with by the moderators, no matter what individuals are involved.
 
greeneyedblackcat said:
Got burned myself on one of my custom built pens, not gonna mention any names but she is a princess here at the IAP. One sided trades really stink if your on the wrong side of them :(
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Now I am sure there is a bigger story behind that comment for sure. I think you need to either rectify it or clean it up. Not good.
 
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My guess is that there are two people who have knowledge of what happened . . . one is Jim and the other Dawn. I think this is best left up to the two parties involved, and the mods, to work out. Once the dust has settled, then the whole story should be told. Until then, we all need to cool our jets. If you get my drift.
 
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