The Doorbell Rang...

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jimm1

jimm1

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
2,143
Location
Thompson's Station, Tennessee, USA.
Don't know about the rest of you, but I really have a hard time with door-to-door solicitors. Any solicitors for that matter, the phone or the door. Well I'm watching a Tivo'd American Chopper when the door bell rings. OY.
After the 2nd ringing, I figured it wasn't a salesman, so I answered it. Lucky me. It was a guy who I made a Snakewood pen a few years ago.
He didn't have my card anymore and apologized for just showing up at my door. Anyway, he wants me to make him a few pens for Christmas. He brought me over the kits and the blanks, but unfortunately, it was a kit that I actually didn't have the bushings for. Honestly, I have 30+ sets of bushings, what were the odds of that? Anyway, HE'S going back to Woodcraft to get the bushings.
Let me ask a question to you all: What would you charge, if at all? It is a "simple" kit.
I'm almost willing to do this for free.
 
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Think of a fee, cut it in half, then wish him a Merry Christmas. :smile:
 
Your doctor does not work for free. Your dentist does not work for free. Time is something that you will never get back. I would not work for free. I would charge my normal fee minus the cost of the materials.

If you wish to work for free, you certainly have every right to do that. If you choose to work for free, please let me know and I will send my address. I have a very lengthy list of things to do and would love to find free labor :biggrin:
 
Value is what it is perceived to be. If your labor is given away free, it is perceived as worthless. Are you doing this for fun, or as a business? If you give your labor away in this (admittedly odd) circumstance, how do you justify the markup over materials price on your completed pens. This guy is apparently willing to do some legwork to either A) ensure he gets exactly what he wants, or B) minimize his cash costs. Neither is a reason for you to minimize your return on your labor, equipment costs, shop materials, and the costs of all the pens you made to gain the skills to do it right. In either case, I would calculate the difference between materials he is supplying, and the finished retail cost of a similar pen. Quote that as the labor cost and if you want, apply a discount to cover how much of YOUR time his legwork saved you. You are not obligated to pay him a reasonable cost for his time, that was his choice.

I am willing to bet that if you have this all laid out and explain it when you quote it to him, he will respect it, and if he does refer you more business, you will be able to make a reasonable profit on it.

Of course, that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about those.

Oh, and I forgot, Today is the 22'nd, he's wanting delivery in time for him to give at Christmas. That's a rush job at the time of the year when time is most valuable. Might not be something you can put on a spreadsheet, but mentioning it is sure to buy some respect, and make the rest sound more reasonable.
 
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Given that its just a couple days before Christmas, I'm sure that he a) loves your stuff and b) couldn't come up with a better gift.

My recommendation: Come up with a price for your labor... Tell him the normal rate (remember that craftsmen in the pro line (plumbers, etc) get a HIGH rate)...

Then you can offer a discount as a "nice favor" for the holidays. For example $60/hour normal... give him that number then make it say $30/hour for this special case and # hours you need. Then make sure that he understands this is the MINIMUM you will take. You'll do him a favor, he may pay you more than you ask (depending on the person) and you may get a bunch more sales in the future for all you know.
 
If you are willing to do it for free, then do so. Maybe invite him to join you in making them. I don't rely on money from pen sales, and I don't consider making pens to be work, so maybe my point of view is not widely shared.
 
jskeen said:
Oh, and I forgot, Today is the 22'nd, he's wanting delivery in time for him to give at Christmas. That's a rush job at the time of the year when time is most valuable. Might not be something you can put on a spreadsheet, but mentioning it is sure to buy some respect, and make the rest sound more reasonable.
Click to expand...

Amen to that.

Lets use a cigar for example. Lets say you charged $75 for completed cigars. Your material costs (what this customer is providing) is say $5 for the blank and $10 for the kit. So you typically would have $15 in those materials for a $75 pen. For this exercise you would bill the customer $60 for the work. You might even add to it since you have 2-1/2 days to complete it.

You run into your local grocery store today. Tell them you want a custom party tray by Christmas and that you have bought trays in the past. Do you think they are going to give you a discount because you are a previous customer? Do you think they will charge more for the last minute custom order?

All I am saying is don't devalue yourself because you have a good heart.
 
I'd advocate for free. Any cost of materials, I'd suggest he pay for them.

It's Christmas - Build the pen, ask him to watch or join you. Then give them to him, shake his hand and say "Merry Christmas".

You never know how this may come back to you by word of mouth sales, recommendations, etc.
 
SonOfMartin said:
I'd advocate for free. Any cost of materials, I'd suggest he pay for them.

It's Christmas - Build the pen, ask him to watch or join you. Then give them to him, shake his hand and say "Merry Christmas".

You never know how this may come back to you by word of mouth sales, recommendations, etc.
Click to expand...

I'd say this is a great idea, and have no problem doing so myself, but I'd be darn sure he knew what the was getting for free. Again, it's all in the perception.
 
Since you are almost willing to do this for free I would ask him to pay whatever he thought it was worth to him. Then take the cash and donate it to your favorite charity. A few simple pens shouldnt take to much of your time. Just my thoughts.
 
It doesn't matter what any of us in IAP have to say. It comes down to what YOU think is best.

On the one hand, it's Christmas and a perfect time to do something for someone in need. You could give him the pens and ask him to "pass it on" by helping somebody down the road.

On the other hand . . . if you do not charge him . . . then, he gives the pens as gifts and tells people how generous you are. They then come to you knowing that you didn't charge their friend . . . so . . . why should they have to pay so much?

My recommendation . . . follow your heart.
 
Doc's answer is right on (now I feel like I should hold up a clenched fist - right on!) For a simple pen I have charged $35 for labor only - that was on MY schedule. Christmas is soon, do you have the time?
 
Ten dollars sounds good but with all the work he's done, I'd charge him five dollars. Let him exercise his Christmas spirit and give you a bonus.
 
As Doc said you need to do what you think is right, giving away your labor or charging for it is up to you. I would never start giving labor away, it would just be the start, the next time he needs another pen your again in the same boat giving away labor. I even go further buy charging full price if they were suppling their own kit and blank as now I'm responsible for their merchandise and if something happens to the blank or kit while in my possession I now need to buy them a new one. Now that's what I do and is not what most here would do but to me its my business and I need to treat it as a business.
 
I guess I don't understand why you are willing to do it for free or almost free. What makes this customer any different than any other? You should charge him your regular price for that pen less the cost of the materials he has provided.
 
First, congratulations on having someone think enough of your work to come looking for you after all this time; unless of course he got the previous pen for free and is hoping to do the same again.

You said he wants a "few" pens. I don't know how many that would be, but I think you should consider what you "won't" be doing in the hours (during these last two days before Christmas) that you spend making the pens. What is that worth to you?

As far as whether or not you charge, or how much you charge, every suggestion that has been given so far has merit. The final decision is yours, but personally, I wouldn't do it for free.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.
 
You don't say how many pens. Considering it is 3 days until Christmas I think time is an issue. I personally think that he should have come sooner if he knew your address. It is rather presumptive of him to assume that you don't have anything else to do before the holiday.
I agree with Roy about giving away your labor. As generous as it might be to give it to him as a gift, I think that in the long run it might come back to bite you. People can take a lot for granted and expect you to always give your labor for free. As for him supplying the parts again I agree with Roy as I have had that very experience and it cost me time and money to replace the blank that exploded. I hope that whatever you decide that it works well for you.
 
I've never had anyone bring me kits to use. That in and of itself is unusual. I would do whatever pleases you to do. What ever it is it will be right.
 
When he asks how much I would say "Because it is Christmas this one is on the house. I will make I up on the next one". In my area that person probably would be back and I would get a plenty of other business in return for the good deed.

I have this one item that I sell, that I put 1 or 2 in every package for most of my customers. That gizmo cost me less than a dollar and takes about 5 minutes to make. I usually get enough repeat business in January to pay me back at least 5 times for those little "extras".
 
1. You said he brought over the "kits" meaning more than one. If it was one, maybe give away your time if you're so inclined. Multiples are another thing at this time of year.
2. If they are Christmas presents, you have less than 48 hours to complete them. Do you really want that kind of pressure at this time of year? If so, maybe you should be compensated accordingly.
3. He's asking for a rush job to be completed. Most folks like plumbers and such get a premium for a rush job.
4. If he's going to Woodcraft, he had exposure to any number of people who could take on this job. However, he sought you out because he knows the quality of your work and feels you'll do the job right.
5. You have costs associated with making these pens beyond your labor. Will he provide the glue, sandpaper, etc?

As others have mentioned...you can do what your head and your heart feel as right. This person is asking you to do a job and probably expects to pay for your time. I know I would always ask how much it would cost me to get something done before the work proceeds.
 
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Do what you think right

One - doing something for free does not mean your time is worthless .... unless we say that everyone who volunteers to help someone else is doing so because their time is "worthless". So if the spirit moves you to do it free that's ok.

Two - He came looking for you and expects to pay you for your time. You can charge any fair and reasonable rate. If you want to discount it that's fine too.

Three - No matter what all of us say .... it's strictly your choice and in this case you can't make a mistake. Anything you decide will be just fine.
 
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