LandfillLumber
Member
Not community driven like it use to be,don't get me wrong I see so many great things done by members for other members.Several things have not made me happy with the IAP in the last year so I'm venting a little.Victor
Whats happening to the IAP???
- Thread starter LandfillLumber
- Start date
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All groups evolve and change. There are a ton of new members, some of the older members have went different ways.
steeler fan1
Member
Don't know what's happening Victor. Just doesn't feel quite right, sad.
Carl
Carl
IPD_Mrs
Member
Some of the older members are still around! But careful how we frame "older" don't want to have to answer to "some" of those that helped create dirt! :devil: 
:tongue::laugh:
Linda
:tongue::laugh:Linda
tbroye
Member
You gotta a problem with dirt? Kids think I am older than dirt.
bitshird
Member
Victor I think it some stupid crap they call progress, why it was necessary befuddles me, but you're right it isn't the same community driven group it used to be. and like you I miss it a lot
Not 'community driven'? How about sending me a PM with specifics. Help identify the specific problems and let's work on fixing them!
I urge you to take up Jeff's offer - if you can help figure out what's changed, if you think something's changed, then maybe Jeff can fix it.
Personally, I think the IAP is as community driven as ever - and I know this from personal example. Some of the most generous people in the world reside on this forum, and I think that posts like these sell them short.
So thank you to everyone that makes the IAP great, and if you disagree that it's great, let's figure out how to fix it!
Personally, I think the IAP is as community driven as ever - and I know this from personal example. Some of the most generous people in the world reside on this forum, and I think that posts like these sell them short.
So thank you to everyone that makes the IAP great, and if you disagree that it's great, let's figure out how to fix it!
Rmartin
Member
It is what it is; the most comprehensive pen making site on the internet. Frankly, I'm a little tired of these posts that pop up every week about how things aren't the same as the used to be.
KenV
Member
Hey -- none of us are the same as we used to be, and that adds to the difficulty of perspective. You wake up one morning and find you are one of the old guys --
bensoelberg
Member
I've got to agree. I'm new here, only been around for a few months, but this is already my favorite website. I haven't said much, but every question I've ever asked has been answered quickly and with plenty of courtesy. I've taken advantage of some fabulous offers by members and seen many of you send stuff to complete strangers for free. It may have been "better" before, (I'll never understand how) but I think it's pretty fantastic now.
Bigger....
I suspect most of the complaints harken back to a time when there were a lot fewer members. But, I think the statement that it isn't community driven is just wrong.
I have yet to see someone ask for assistance and not get at least some attempts to help. And that includes things well beyond pen turning help.
People need materials, somebody sends them some, people have illnesses somebody prays for them and sends well wishes. A death in the family sympathetic condolances come from all over the world.
Certainly there are some debates...in any large organization there will be. Certainly there will be a lot of divergent interests...that too is normal for a large organization. But still this is as "community driven" as any organization I've been around.
And that is from one who has his share of differences of opinion (some expressed some not) with management.
I suspect most of the complaints harken back to a time when there were a lot fewer members. But, I think the statement that it isn't community driven is just wrong.
I have yet to see someone ask for assistance and not get at least some attempts to help. And that includes things well beyond pen turning help.
People need materials, somebody sends them some, people have illnesses somebody prays for them and sends well wishes. A death in the family sympathetic condolances come from all over the world.
Certainly there are some debates...in any large organization there will be. Certainly there will be a lot of divergent interests...that too is normal for a large organization. But still this is as "community driven" as any organization I've been around.
And that is from one who has his share of differences of opinion (some expressed some not) with management.
bruce119
Member
I don't think we need all these threads on how to fix it and changes. Heck it is/was fine why fix what ant broke. There's always going to be bumps in the road just ride them out. I think we just keep on doing what we been doing. Just give the members some guidance and show them this is a community to keep the tradition going. There's always going to be complaints and disagreements. I think the moderation was fine just deal with it behind the seines. I don't think these threads on how to run the forum is healthy I understand the moderators want to be fair. But I think it would be best if you guys just did your thing in the back room. And if some dust kicks up just sit back and let it settle.
The forum is just fine I think all these threads on how to change rules and make it better is just hindering and string up the mud for lack of a better word.
Just my thoughts and it's late for me and I am not thinking clearly so take that into consideration.
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The forum is just fine I think all these threads on how to change rules and make it better is just hindering and string up the mud for lack of a better word.
Just my thoughts and it's late for me and I am not thinking clearly so take that into consideration.
.
AKPenTurner
Member
I'd have to agree with most of you folks... The IAP is a great place (I've only been here a few months). Frankly, I agree with Jeff. Let's work together and make it better!!
marter1229
Member
What is community driven mean?
Terry
Terry
Dave_M
Member
workinforwood
Member
I don't understand what this post is about and what the purpose of it is. All I see is a sentence that does not explain itself in any way, and thus can be interpreted in a million ways. I hope it was not meant to be, but the way it is written becomes a lets stir up some **** thread.
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traderdon55
Member
I have to agree with Jeff on this. Victor, instead of a general sentence like this to me the best way to vent is just say what it is that is that is bothering you so much. I have been on IAP for a while and have seen a lot of changes but that is to be expected as a site grows and evolves. If there are specific problems Jeff and the moderaters are happy to address them but they have to know what they are. Even though there may be a few little problems I think most members on here would agree with me that this is one of the best forums around!!
Jon-wx5nco
Member
I agree whole heartedly with this post. At this time last year, I hadn't made my first pen yet. While some may not find the forum to be the same as it use to be, I still find it to be invaluable.
WoodNutOntario
Member
I'm pretty new around here, about a year or so.
First joined another site and spent most of my time there because most of the stuff posted was "Close to home" in distance.
Got a bit tired of some attitudes and i am here 99% of the time now!
Every forum has it's ups and downs and we have to learn to live with them.
To me this is a great place with a HUGE member base.
Ups and downs are bound to happen but i find they are kept to a minimum here.
And if there is a debate, i will only say something if i think it is worth saying. Most of the times i do not comment because i do not know the whole story...
For me this is a great place to call HOME!
Andrew
First joined another site and spent most of my time there because most of the stuff posted was "Close to home" in distance.
Got a bit tired of some attitudes and i am here 99% of the time now!
Every forum has it's ups and downs and we have to learn to live with them.
To me this is a great place with a HUGE member base.
Ups and downs are bound to happen but i find they are kept to a minimum here.
And if there is a debate, i will only say something if i think it is worth saying. Most of the times i do not comment because i do not know the whole story...
For me this is a great place to call HOME!
Andrew
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LandfillLumber
Member
All the posts about this being bad to the IAP(my post)is part of whats wrong with the IAP.Look at the different posts some say how negative I'm being, some agree,yet some want me to air out all the issues in a post HMM.So was it a bad post not all if gets people thinking then it is what it is.And stirring up s-it is not my way anyone that knows me a little knows I'm as laid back as they come.Its also interesting that I got PM's agreeing with me,but they did not want to post it for everyone to see yet not one PM disagreeing with me they all want to bash the post public(HMM),this says something else about the site as well.If I had all the answers I would not have titled the post"What is happening to the IAP",it seems to be more of a mood in the forum then one or two computer changes.Sorry you guys think I'm bashing the IAP,but I used to look forward to getting on in the mourning and know its just part on my routine.I can't believe that people think this is a bad post stirring up junk,so we should shut up and just let things happen(that's great advice guys,lol).Sorry this is my opinion and it should be respected as I would respect anyone else.Another funny thing is its stated as more of a question not pointing out how to change rules and so on.Sorry to anyone that disagrees with me,Victor
Craftdiggity
Member
I would like to know exactly how it "used to be." What is so different now that makes the forum such a disaster? These detail-LESS posts complaining about some unnamed problems can't be helping to create this "community driven" utopia some people seem to be looking for.
Is it possible that we're overthinking this?
Why can't it just be a forum where a bunch of pen makers get together and discuss pens and pen making?
Is it possible that we're overthinking this?
Why can't it just be a forum where a bunch of pen makers get together and discuss pens and pen making?
Mark
Member
Victor, IMHO I don't think people are harping on you specifically. I think a lot of it is that the original post was very open ended. Mentioned, were "several things that bothered you", but everyone is just guessing what you mean.
I'm not saying the forum doesn't change. I've been on the Internet since 1987, when everything was still newsgroups. Then forums evolved, then blogs. The entire Internet is still growing and changing. Likewise the IAP will grow and change. There have been a bunch of posts/threads that seem to say the same thing. I'm certain that Jeff and his crew will do what they can to correct any issues, but I also think we need to give them specifics in order to narrow down what is causing people the concern.
snyiper
Member
I think the point of the post was meant to asses the mood or tone. I can not attest one way or another, being here just a year I have not seen the mood change much. I think the Forum is great I think in my year here as a guest there has been some shaky or shady things but only a couple. I didn't take Victors post as negative but as a feeling with him things have changed and they have. I bet if Jeff were to post the numbers of new people that joined for the last 5 years, year by year you would see the influx of new people cultures and ideas as well as ages. I think the apple cart was upset with the new influx of people with in the last couple of years....Not bad just a change.
I think this is a broad statement. It opens up a can of worms, leaving people scratching their heads of to what brought this up.
Like the other members are saying, what caused this? Maybe we can fix it or not, but I know I come here for comraderie and information. The IAP is full of very helpful people.
PTownSubbie
Member
I normally try not to but I am going to post to this because it is eating at me.....
If people can't voice their opinion and only post to PM, then why even voice an opinion at all. This is the problem with people.....Too afraid to speak and try to point out problems?
If a general statement cannot be backed up with fact, just like no pictures....didn't happen.....then no backing, must not be a problem.
I will agree with you to an extent though Victor. People have become thin skinned and every post bothers someone to some extent. That is because you can't read body language and reaction to what is being said.
We need more sharing and less bickering. That is one thing I have noticed as a change in the 18 months I have been here.
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GoodTurns
Member
/RANT ON/ i guess I am an "old" member...been around a few years now, seen a few fights, a few changes and made more than a few friends (some still here, some not, some missed, some not!) Wow...sounds like the neighborhood I live in! It's a community. It changes.
The things that make a community great are the people and we have some very good ones here. We also have some that may not make it onto anyone's Christmas list! Learn to deal with it....use your IGNORE feature, IT WORKS AND IT HELPS!
With the recent bickering, I had to make a choice, give up or do my part to make it better. I chose to try to make it better. I am running a group buy (closed now, no you can't, sorry!). I will try to run one every 5-6 months as my small contribution, not a ridiculous amount of effort, but will help out a bunch of folks a couple of times a year. Find something you can do to help! Doesn't have to be much, doesn't have to cost a cent. Make an effort to make YOUR community better! Consider it your cost of admission for some of the best information and education you can get for our chosen hobby/profession. /RANT OFF/
The things that make a community great are the people and we have some very good ones here. We also have some that may not make it onto anyone's Christmas list! Learn to deal with it....use your IGNORE feature, IT WORKS AND IT HELPS!
With the recent bickering, I had to make a choice, give up or do my part to make it better. I chose to try to make it better. I am running a group buy (closed now, no you can't, sorry!). I will try to run one every 5-6 months as my small contribution, not a ridiculous amount of effort, but will help out a bunch of folks a couple of times a year. Find something you can do to help! Doesn't have to be much, doesn't have to cost a cent. Make an effort to make YOUR community better! Consider it your cost of admission for some of the best information and education you can get for our chosen hobby/profession. /RANT OFF/
It's not a "bad post", but it is ineffective. I often see these little bombs dropped; "this place isn't the same any more", or "what's changing", or "not community driven" or whatever. And then as you say a bunch of people agree via PM and grumble behind the scenes. How is that helpful? You said in your first post that you were just venting. How does this help? It's not helpful unless you're venting something specific, preferably with a recommended change or solution.
What would be more helpful is for people to offer specific issues we can work on. This vague, general complaining does not help one bit in keeping this a place that suits and serves the membership.
Jgrden
Member
I am just having fun in the right places and learning in the other places. There is something for everyone. I too have made enemies but have made MANY more friends. So this site pays off, real well. Friends and knowledge by sharing.
And that is my message this morning, now out to the shop to turn some Paduka that was sent to me, without expecting anything in return, because I sent out a request for assistance. I am going to pay him back two-fold.
And that is my message this morning, now out to the shop to turn some Paduka that was sent to me, without expecting anything in return, because I sent out a request for assistance. I am going to pay him back two-fold.
You bring up an interesting point, Victor, however, I do not think this malaise starts at the portal to the IAP.
There is a pervasive feeling of discomfort in the world today. In large part, it can be linked to the global economy, which is still in the midst of the longest running period of economic contaction since the end of World War II.
The contaction has been hard on many, but the uncertainty is far worse. Those who have not lost their jobs, fear they might. Those who have lost their jobs fear they may lose their savings. Thos who have lost their savings fear they may never recover economically.
Fear and uncertainty can be crippling. The sense of foreboding overwhelms the sense of hope. Negativism, even among optimists, taints our perspective.
Fear and uncertainty magnify our differences. There is a perception that impactful events are felt greater by one than another. We become conditioned to the negative and, thus, see a negative even when none exists.
In my nearly 59 years on this earth, this is the longest lasting recession to hit the United States. Also, as a leading consuming nation, the depth and breadth of the recession worldwide has been impacted by the U. S. economy.
I don't know if economic improvement is imminent or a bit further in the future, but I believe that a return to stable growth will usher in a knew era of cautious optimism. With the return of economic optimism, the malaise will pass and a return to a healthier outlook will prevail. This is truly where the IAP stood 4, 5 or 6 years ago.
I have hope for the forum and hope for the community which supports it.
There is a pervasive feeling of discomfort in the world today. In large part, it can be linked to the global economy, which is still in the midst of the longest running period of economic contaction since the end of World War II.
The contaction has been hard on many, but the uncertainty is far worse. Those who have not lost their jobs, fear they might. Those who have lost their jobs fear they may lose their savings. Thos who have lost their savings fear they may never recover economically.
Fear and uncertainty can be crippling. The sense of foreboding overwhelms the sense of hope. Negativism, even among optimists, taints our perspective.
Fear and uncertainty magnify our differences. There is a perception that impactful events are felt greater by one than another. We become conditioned to the negative and, thus, see a negative even when none exists.
In my nearly 59 years on this earth, this is the longest lasting recession to hit the United States. Also, as a leading consuming nation, the depth and breadth of the recession worldwide has been impacted by the U. S. economy.
I don't know if economic improvement is imminent or a bit further in the future, but I believe that a return to stable growth will usher in a knew era of cautious optimism. With the return of economic optimism, the malaise will pass and a return to a healthier outlook will prevail. This is truly where the IAP stood 4, 5 or 6 years ago.
I have hope for the forum and hope for the community which supports it.
bruce119
Member
Like I said previously I think for the most part things are fine. There has been some recent flack but it will pass. Jeff, Curtis and the new moderators has done a great job. It is behind the seines and unknown and sadly unthanked but that is how it is and should be. I guess this is directed at the moderators you guys do a great job I know it's not easy but you have a passion for it. Keep it on the hidden moderators forum (don't know why I said that) and rule from from behind the seines. I have been in many clubs and forums and have held let's say management positions. When ever a, we'll say, moderator ask a question like how should we do this. Everyone has a different idea and opinion and the stuff usually flies. Most of the time it is better left inside the management circle.
This place is great just keep on doing what you been doing. Jeff, Curtis and now 2 others "The Team" has done a great job just keep on doing.
I think the forum is just fine the way it is NO CHANGES NEEDED
I probably strayed from the original topic but I lost track of what it was.
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This place is great just keep on doing what you been doing. Jeff, Curtis and now 2 others "The Team" has done a great job just keep on doing.
I think the forum is just fine the way it is NO CHANGES NEEDED
I probably strayed from the original topic but I lost track of what it was.
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LandfillLumber
Member
I did not say what was bothering me as that would have got lots more posts then my simple statement.People would have offered even more opinions on what I dislike lately.I see many saying the same thing its something different but they are not exactly sure what it is,neither am I.Like I said its a mood I guess maybe it less laid back then it used to be and that bothers me???Oh well the IAP is not made or broke on ones opinion alone,and it should not be ignored either.And for everyone that says things change and evolve I'm aware of that please don't talk to people like they don't live in the real world,we all do.Thanks for listening to me,Victor
OK, point taken. However, if something is bothering you and you don't want to post it, then PM me, or call me (440-829-1829). Just saying "I'm unhappy" doesn't improve the situation. It just causes people to opine and suppose what might be wrong, and argue with each other about what is good or bad or whatever.
tomas
Member
Many years ago, when I was a teenager, I played in a rock band. We were playing at a dance one night and from on the stage, I watched a guy walk across the dance floor and poke another guy in the mouth. All of a sudden there were 8-10 people all punching it out. However, the guy who started it all walked back across the dance floor and sat down to watch what he had started.
KenBrasier
Member
Ken, good point, I fully agree. As long as we continue to wake up morning Life Goes On. And even with the changes, this is my favorite place to visit each day.
Jeff and the Moderators are going a great job and I for one really appreciate it.
:bananen_smilies104:
LEAP
Member
Maybe the question should be "What is right on the IAP?"
There are so many positives and wonderful people here that it is worth a little nuisance on occasion. Let the management know what we like, what things are done well, our favorite forums and events.
Personally I enjoy the show off your pens the most. I love looking at the work of the many talented artists here and watching the newcomers develop in their skills.
I really liked Butch's challenge this summer. I did not have the time to participate but checked out the progress of all involved daily.
I enjoyed the trashtalk section from the birthday bash and the good natured banter between the members.
These are just a few of the things that make this the best forum on the web.
There are so many positives and wonderful people here that it is worth a little nuisance on occasion. Let the management know what we like, what things are done well, our favorite forums and events.
Personally I enjoy the show off your pens the most. I love looking at the work of the many talented artists here and watching the newcomers develop in their skills.
I really liked Butch's challenge this summer. I did not have the time to participate but checked out the progress of all involved daily.
I enjoyed the trashtalk section from the birthday bash and the good natured banter between the members.
These are just a few of the things that make this the best forum on the web.
bruce119
Member
You know I am self taught. In the beginning I didn't know a thing about pen turning. I was building fishing rods and got a lathe to do the handles and real seats. Then wile surfing the net I discovered this site and pen turning and was hooked. I never took a lesson from anyone never got advise from a face to face live person. Just about everything I learned about pen turning came from here. I am in debt to this site that is why I try to help anyone who asks. Every thing you need to know is rite here.
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LandfillLumber
Member
I have not backed down on my posts I have added more.This would not be my style,I would not start something and run as the post above is trying to say(or maybe I'm taking it wrong).If I had all the right answers then i would have posted them already.Its like society its not one rule/law that will make it all great and perfect its lots of tiny things that add up to something different.Sorry to any I have rubbed the wrong way and it seems a few of you anyways.But I must say that talking is the first step in solving anything,and people are talking,lol.Thanks for reading and posting,Victor
DurocShark
Member
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ToddMR
Member
Victor, I have just read this onslaught of posts, and no worries from me, you haven't rubbed me wrong at all. I think we all get in a funk from time to time or see things differently. It's part of what makes us all human. I have been on here since April/May this year and I have had my ups & downs as much as the next person. We all have opinions and some feel like sharing and some don't. Neither should be scalded for either. Sometimes though things can seem/feel like one thing but not really be it. I am not dismissing what your initial thoughts are at all. I myself have not been on a whole lot lately as I have been busy going to the gym and also trying to get projects done for my first show ever. Keep your chin up, and maybe take a break for a few days or a week. Take some time for you, and maybe coming back refreshed is all you need. I love the IAP, and value the input from a lot of members and I know I won't always agree, like, or understand everyone, but hey that's how communities work at large.
I hope you all have a good day and I look forward to seeing and learning more as my journey here continues on.
Take it easy all.
