Trademark/copyright

[gwisher]

I don't mean to open a whole can of worms here but I was wondering if this mirror I made would constitute infringement? I have done some research on it and it is such a grey area of law. I was wondering if I put a sticker on the back of the product stating something like "I am in no way affiliated with the organization depicted in this piece of artwork" if that would get me away from the "likely confusion" standard for infringement? I went to a local Walgreens and saw some metal wallets with logos from Harley Davidson, MN vikings, Chevrolet, and Ford on them and they had a sticker on the back stating that they were not affiliated with any of the companies.

Any help would be appreciated as I one of these mirrors for myself and as a gift to a friend and I have had a lot of interest from people who want to purchase but I don't want any legal troubles out of this.

 

[Willee]

If you are making this item as a gift or just for yourself you are in no danger.

If you intend to sell these items at a "show" or in some internet store then you might.

The image is copyrighted and the holder will most likely use legal remedy to protect that right from infringement.

Did you do the artwork from scratch?
If you bought a sticker, transfer, or some other item and use that on something you make then as long as you paid for it ... you can.

For instance ... if I make a wind chime from Budweiser beer cans I purchased then I can sell them with no fear of trademark problems.
If I paint the Budweiser logo on something I made and am selling than I am in violation.

I am not an attorney and this is just my personal opinion.

 

[aggromere]

I can't really tell what the picture is, maybe a cat for some football team or something. You can use renditions of trademarked items in works of art. For example, you can paint a picture of a baseball player in his uniform with the logo or take a photo of him. You could even paint a picture (or carve one out of wood) of a logo as a one of a kind piece of art. What you can't do is start selling a whole bunch of them. Then it moves out of the 'art category' and into a product.

For example, I use real cigar bands on my pens. They are considered individual works of art. I purchased the band on a cigar and it's now my property to do with as I wish. Except, put it on another cigar and attempt to sell it as the original.

I also think that if you make 5 or 10 of them you will never hit the radar screen of whoever they are, unless you try to sell one to the team owner. Then maybe.

You can google trademark and copyright and there is a lot of good information about it.

If the guys selling the harley wallets ever get caught by harley they will have a problem. If you mass produce something with someone else's copyrighted or trademarked copy or image you have to get permission to use it.

Many of the cigar companies I depict on my pens saw them and bought some and want more, so you never know.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Although I am not sure what the image stands for, if it is a logo and you sell the item without permission of the logo holder then you could be in trouble.

 

[gwisher]

If you are making this item as a gift or just for yourself you are in no danger.

If you intend to sell these items at a "show" or in some internet store then you might.

The image is copyrighted and the holder will most likely use legal remedy to protect that right from infringement.

Did you do the artwork from scratch?
If you bought a sticker, transfer, or some other item and use that on something you make then as long as you paid for it ... you can.

For instance ... if I make a wind chime from Budweiser beer cans I purchased then I can sell them with no fear of trademark problems.
If I paint the Budweiser logo on something I made and am selling than I am in violation.

I am not an attorney and this is just my personal opinion.

The image is a rendition of the MN Wild hockey team logo, I used a sticker and traced the image and cut it out using my scroll saw. I have looked into licensing from the NHL and they make it impossible for the little guy to do anything! They want 5 years experience in this type of work (how can you get experience if you don't use their logo?) They also want 5 years of financials and so forth.

 

[Monty]

If you intend to sell these items at a "show" or in some internet store then you might.

The image is copyrighted and the holder will most likely use legal remedy to protect that right from infringement.

Did you do the artwork from scratch?
If you bought a sticker, transfer, or some other item and use that on something you make then as long as you paid for it ... you can.

For instance ... if I make a wind chime from Budweiser beer cans I purchased then I can sell them with no fear of trademark problems.
If I paint the Budweiser logo on something I made and am selling than I am in violation.

I am not an attorney and this is just my personal opinion.

Don't count on this. I had a lady at a show that sells blankets made from material she purchased tell me she had them confiscated by an attorney or representative of the NFL. They told her that the material was licensed to the company that manufactured it for use by individuals only and not for resale. Don't know how true that is but that's what she said.

 

[Willee]

Don't count on this. I had a lady at a show that sells blankets made from material she purchased tell me she had them confiscated by an attorney or representative of the NFL. They told her that the material was licensed to the company that manufactured it for use by individuals only and not for resale. Don't know how true that is but that's what she said.

I understand that the NFL licenses the artwork to a seller.
They then make or have made the images that are protected and sell them to customers.
The customer owns the rights to do with it as he pleases as long as it is the original image he purchased.

Just as in Music or Books ... you own the item you purchased and have the right to sell it to others. Otherwise there would be no second hand stores.
Think American Pickers ... look at all the artwork and trademarked items they buy and sell ... on TV even!
Computer software is one exception where you are buying the rights to use that software not the program itself.
But even then ... that right to use can be transferred to someone else ... otherwise there would be no used computers or software for sale.

Your lady in the example has a case if she can afford to pay lawyers.
If she bought the items in question and they were not copies or counterfeits then they had no right to take them from her ... she owned those as her personal property.

 

[btboone]

Basically, a logo that means something to someone else is because of the reputation, hard work, and dedication of others is what a copyright is meant to cover. When you do a set of elliptical mouse ears on a rounded set of shoulders, it is only because of the excellence that has become Disney, does that have any symbol have any value. For you to be making a profit from Disney's excellence is what Disney's lawyers will have a problem with.

 

[Willee]

Basically, a logo that means something to someone else is because of the reputation, hard work, and dedication of others is what a copyright is meant to cover. When you do a set of elliptical mouse ears on a rounded set of shoulders, it is only because of the excellence that has become Disney, does that have any symbol have any value. For you to be making a profit from Disney's excellence is what Disney's lawyers will have a problem with.

True ... but if you legally purchase artwork, add it to your work, or enhance it, you have every right to sell that specific piece to someone else.
Just as you had the right to sell the entire original copyrighted piece you purchased to start with.

Using Disney as an example ...
If I buy a Disney DVD at Wal-mart ... am I not allowed to sell that same DVD for a profit on eBay? I am profiting from MY work and excellence in marketing.
Disney got their profit when I bought the DVD from Wal-mart.

I can sell a pen made from a Mickey Mouse watch face without paying Disney any royalties because the royalties were paid when the watch was originally purchased.
(assuming a legal purchase of course)
I own the watch face and can do with it as I please.
If I were selling a photo of it, or copies of it in any way, or made one myself to look like that watch face then I would be in violation.

Fair use laws come into play whenever you purchase something that is patented or copyrighted.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Unless you are an intellectual property rights lawyer or have absolute first hand knowledge of the subject, then you need to leave the legal opinions at home and keep them off IAP. We WILL NOT be going down this road yet again. Thanks you.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator

 

[Willee]

Unless you are an intellectual property rights lawyer or have absolute first hand knowledge of the subject, then you need to leave the legal opinions at home and keep them off IAP. We WILL NOT be going down this road yet again. Thanks you.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator

It seems to be a popular topic ... what do we really own and what can we do with it without getting into trouble.
Too bad we dont have any real lawyers specializing in that here to answer these questions.
There certainly seems to be an interest in this topic.

So this is now the "Off Topic General Chat except for Legal Opinions Forum"?
I would have thought this would have been the correct forum for such discussions.

 

[MesquiteMan]

So this is now the "Off Topic General Chat except for Legal Opinions Forum"?
I would have thought this would have been the correct forum for such discussions.

Nope, this is just a subject that ALWAYS starts fights and is full of mis-information and hearsay. If you are qualified to answer legal opinion questions or can provide direct links to sources that definitively answer such questions, then go for it but please give your qualifications first. Otherwise, it is just a bunch of hot air that leads to more division and fights here on IAP. We are NOT going to do that again.

 

[ed4copies]

BTW, there is at least one patent-trademark attorney who is a member of the IAP. I have exchanged emails with him on a couple occasions. Like most professionals, he realized the many ramifications each situation presents. And, like most professionals, he realizes that people can misinterpret his writing, then act on it and sue him for poor professional advice (paid for or not).

So, don't assume no one knows the answers--they just choose not to say anything for fear of being misread.

If these issues had black and white answers, there would be no need for courts.