dust collector or filter masks, really needed????

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truckerdave

truckerdave

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Rochester, New York
:confused: I do not have a dust collector or use any type of mask, just safety glasses and a face shield while turning or sanding. What is the big concern? Should I be worried? I mean I know that I am more sensitive to only walnut, no other wood has ever given me any trouble, so I don't do walnut.(there are prettier woods anyway.)
Also, I have done deer, moose, and caribou antler with no mask, :confused:everyone says that's not good for us either, but I have never heard anyone say why.
Just asking, not picking a fight.
 
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Unfortunately I'm the same:redface:
But when I look around my shop and see that layer of fine dust that covers everything, then I'm reminded that my lungs MUST be coated as well.....:wink: In fact, I reckon my lungs are getting most of it before it settles further away.
 
That's really what it boils down to it...your lungs. Dust can be very harmful on your respiratory system, the other factor is the what if. What happens if you mistakenly turn poison oak instead of regular oak? It would only kinda suck instead of you being in the hospital for a month.

Trust me I hate the noise of my shop vac and a mask on my face, but i feel my health is more important.
 
I notice a big difference when I use a mask.
I breath better during/after turning and I don't see brown when I blow my nose.

I use a n95 dust mask, but after turning antler last week (without a mask) and then having chest congestion the next day, I said I was going to get a respirator.
The congestion turned out to be the flu, but since I haven't turned since I got sick, i've had plenty of time to ponder the respirator and it just seems to make sense to have one.
 
I always turn on my dust collector and position the outlet directly behind the pen blank. It get much of the shavings, all the dust and CA fumes, and everything else in the shop stays clean!

PS. I have mild asthma, so it is mandatory for me....
 
I only used a disposable mask when I started. Now I use a dust collector and (usually) the mask. I no longer am coughing for 2 days after turning, I don't feel any burning after a CA finish and my shop is clean of dust. The dust collector is the best thing I ever bought for my shop. ( correction, LOML bought it for me).
 
truckerdave said:
It's really that bad? I guess I never gave it that much thought, maybe I should get some protection.
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Yes you should, especially with the antler and horn, that stuff will get you eventually. Decent mask at a minimum(they are relatively cheap) avoid the paper types, but they are better than NOTHING by a long ways.
 
Yes, it is that bad. Even if you don't have an immediate reaction to a wood, as you do in walnut, you are sensitizing yourself to all the woods you turn. You are breathing in microscopic particles of wood, bone, antler, resin. And sooner or later you will start to notice that every time you turn a certain kind of wood, you can't breath right, you get asthma like conditions.

You could start by reading this thread, and then go from there.
 
I would say if you do any kind of work around any dust making projects weather it be wood dust, metal dust, or just sand dust you are exposing your lungs to more potential hazards than is necessary. The small price for a good dust collector and/ or a good dust mask is priceless. There are so many other hazards in the shop to be concerned about also but this is one that affects your life big time. Do yourself a favor and enjoy the hobby better with more protection.

By the way the reason you do not want to breath antler and bone is the microscopic dead organisms and cells in them. Remember it was a live thing before it died. Can't be good for you.
 
Wood that you may not be sensitive to can be very harmful if it has any spalting in it. If nothing else you should always those little cloth masks. I never do any sanding without something filtering my lungs. Better safe than sorry.
 
As a physician and a toxicologist, I worry about my friends who turn without protection. Spalted woods, when turned, put out millions of fungal spores with toxins (out of just one blank). Fungal toxins are some of the most potent toxins known to man. Some of the rosewoods and cocobolo have cancer causing properties. The woods that are resistant to molds have toxins that were made to protect the tree from mold infestation but those toxins affect us adversely.

I work in my garage and use a Jet Dust collector with a Jet Air Filtration System. The lathe has a PSI dust collection hood on it and I use a Triton Respirator rather than a NIOSH approved dust mask when working with woods, Tru-Stone and metal blanks.

I know that some of these items were costly but I can't really enjoy a hobby while worrying about it making me sick.

My two cents worth....
 
There is a really good article in this months American Woodturner magazine about dust and dust collectors for woodturners. Wood dust is serious, and it's not the stuff you can see, it's the particles you can't see. I use a dust-be-gone mask around my saws, and a half respirator from HD whenever I do a lot of sanding or use CA (i'm severely allergic to CA).

I got small cheap dust collector from HF, that does OK. After we move, a big DC is the first purchase for the shop.

It's worth every penny.

Good luck!
Chris
 
I now use a dust collector, you would be surprised at how well it works. Especially on the disc sander , a real dust creator. I use a shop vac for the lathe and it collects a lot of dust. All that helps a lot with out to much effort. I want to bring the dust collector nearer to the lathe and use the larger hose to collect the dust, that may make it even better. Carl
 
I admit that I more often then not do not use a mask. I do have dust collection, and I run that on all the big tools, but not on my lathe. There is no argument that the dust of wood and other materials is bad for you health. Mixing certain types of wood dust together can potentially cause chemical pneumonia which can lead to death. Black coated lungs from wood dust is not healthy. Who knows what is in antlers and bones that can get inside you. There is nothing good about it. Remember George Burns? He lived well past 100 and he smoked like a chimney. Does this excuse you from using a mask or does it mean you should smoke..of course not. Everyone will respond differently to the effects of dust or smoking, and there is no way to tell how it will effect you until you go into the final box. Take your chances, or do not...up to you what you decide. I quite often take my chances, but at the same time, I know that if something bad happens to me, I have only myself to blame.

Oh yea...the guys that use a dust collector and think that helps..sorry, you might as well not bother. Unless you have one of those super fine micron filter bags, the dust collector itself is only reliable for keeping the shop cleaner than it otherwise would be. It is not an air filter. You have to invest a few hundred dollars to upgrade a stock dust collector into an air filter/dust collector. The really fine dust goes right through a typical dust collector and blasted out into the air you are breathing. Regular wood dust will not affect your lungs, because you lungs have a defense system for that. But the really fine dust that goes through the dust collector..that dust also goes right through your natural defense system. That is the dust that kills you over time.
 
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I have the dust collector from Rockler, and there is not a day that goes by without me enjoying it. The noise is a little annoying, I just use some earmuffs. Like Skippy said earlier, the thin layer of dust that came from my lathe before is gone! I only have to clean off my lathe about every 5 pens! It is amazing, and after I get done turning a pen, my lathe setup looks like it was before I even started! I'm not even going to get into health effects, as it has been thoroughly covered already. I would get a dust collector, it is a choice you won't regret!:smile:
 
truckerdave said:
Should I be worried? I mean I know that I am more sensitive to only walnut, no other wood has ever given me any trouble, so I don't do walnut. ... Also, I have done deer, moose, and caribou antler with no mask, everyone says that's not good for us either, but I have never heard anyone say why.
Just asking, not picking a fight.
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Keep turning in an unprotected environment and sooner or later you WILL have a problem that will cost you way more than any dust collection system could cost you.

If after a day of working in the shop and as you close down for the night, you leave and blow your nose and all that crud and "stuff" you have exposed your snout to has all sorts of 'things' in it, just consider what your lungs look like. Sooner or later this 'stuff' can actually begin to mold inside your body ... then all the fun begins. Doctor visits, hospital visits, long term medical treatments, prolonged illnesses, death, etc. It is kinda like radiation, a little is Ok, but prolonged exposure certainly is not!

WHAT IS CHEAPER? You do the math.

Not only is dust collection a better way to work, it also cuts down on finishng processes and other things like keeping SWMBO happy which is quite important.
 
This is why I have to laugh sometimes about the sawstop king pushers. These people are probably ones that do not take dust collection serious but have a $500 attachment to a tool that will only hurt you if you operate it wrongly. Not only is a dust collector a good idea and as Jeff said use a micron bag filtration but also a whole shop filtration collector is a great idea. Any time you attack the dust at the source will be that much less that gets in the air. Unfortuanetly I work in construction and dust is a huge major factor in every aspect of my work invironment and I try to take whatever precautions are possible but it is something that will eventually catch up to me so I do take precautions in the shop as much as I can with the devices mentioned and the use of a dust mask and at times a dust helmet when working with real fine dust. This is why I like acrylics for pen blanks. No real dust.
 
jttheclockman said:
This is why I have to laugh sometimes about the sawstop king pushers. These people are probably ones that do not take dust collection serious but have a $500 attachment to a tool that will only hurt you if you operate it wrongly. Not only is a dust collector a good idea and as Jeff said use a micron bag filtration but also a whole shop filtration collector is a great idea. Any time you attack the dust at the source will be that much less that gets in the air. Unfortuanetly I work in construction and dust is a huge major factor in every aspect of my work invironment and I try to take whatever precautions are possible but it is something that will eventually catch up to me so I do take precautions in the shop as much as I can with the devices mentioned and the use of a dust mask and at times a dust helmet when working with real fine dust. This is why I like acrylics for pen blanks. No real dust.
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Pretty broad brush you are painting with there JT.:frown:

Let's see, I have a Sawstop, and I highly recommend it. It's a great saw and the 3hp top of the line model costs $300 less than the equivalent Delta Unisaw. Hmmmm. I also have:
​
1800LH Clear View Cyclone with filters
Jet 3 speed suspended air filter
DC heads at all my tools, including both of my lathes
Airware Trend Airshield Pro Helmet
AAW Smock
Dewalt Turning gloves
 
Padre said:
Pretty broad brush you are painting with there JT.:frown:

Let's see, I have a Sawstop, and I highly recommend it. It's a great saw and the 3hp top of the line model costs $300 less than the equivalent Delta Unisaw. Hmmmm. I also have:​

1800LH Clear View Cyclone with filters
Jet 3 speed suspended air filter
DC heads at all my tools, including both of my lathes
Airware Trend Airshield Pro Helmet
AAW Smock
Dewalt Turning gloves
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A+++ for you Chip good job.
 
truckerdave said:
:confused: Should I be worried?
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ABSOLUTELY!

My father, who will be 65 this year, is suffering from nasopharyngeal cancer due to wood dust exposure, specifically plywood dust. He was the epitome of good health before his cancer, never drank or smoked in his life, is a vegetarian and had a resting heart rate of 40 bpm. Before his cancer, he used to ride 12,000 miles per year on a bicycle with a 10 year "career" of over 100,000 miles. After radiation and chemo, he is now blind in his left eye (they are actually going to remove it next week), has no sense of smell, very little sense of taste, very little saliva, and is almost deaf. He no longer rides his bike either. He basically is just existing. He used to be the one that drug us out to the lake slalom water skiing and could outdo any of the rest of us. He sold his Mastercraft ski boat since he can no longer use it. He is not permitted to drive at night since he can not see. He has had pneumonia 2 times since he cancer, once almost killing him.

Is dust collection/protection absolutely imperative? You better bet it is, unless you enjoy the things I posted above. It is really sad seeing such an active man turn into what he has become. It breaks my heart.

Get a good dust collection system and use it all of the time. The money you spend may be cheap compared to the over $1 million his medical bills have cost so far!
 
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another dumb DC question.

I understand that the cheap systems don't actually filter out the really small particles that cause the most damage. What if I were to do this?
I have an carport right outside my workshop,if I put even a cheap DC out there and ran the hose thru the wall to each of my tools, will that keep the really small particles out of the shop and my lungs?
 
truckerdave said:
I understand that the cheap systems don't actually filter out the really small particles that cause the most damage. What if I were to do this?
I have an carport right outside my workshop,if I put even a cheap DC out there and ran the hose thru the wall to each of my tools, will that keep the really small particles out of the shop and my lungs?
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A cheap one won't. A nice one with a 5 micron bag or lower will though.
 
jocat54 said:
What is the best DC for the money?
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That is a very subjective question because there are alot of factors involved. What are you planning to hook up to it??? How big is your shop??? What is your budget??? How do you plan to hook up to the dust collector??? Like I mentioned dust collecting is a small part of cleaning the air. It is actually designed to remove the large chips and shaving from the woodworking project. Now to remove the fine particles of dust at any particular tool will take some ingenious duct work. That is why dust filters systems are also used and dust masks. Not a simple question to answer. I am sure you will get people tell you what they have and hopefully they will also tell you how they deal with the fine dust too. That is the stuff that will kill you.
 
jttheclockman said:
It is actually designed to remove the large chips and shaving from the woodworking project. Now to remove the fine particles of dust at any particular tool will take some ingenious duct work. That is why dust filters systems are also used and dust masks. Not a simple question to answer. I am sure you will get people tell you what they have and hopefully they will also tell you how they deal with the fine dust too. That is the stuff that will kill you.
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DUST collectors ARE NOT designed to remove the large chips and shavings, quite the contrary. They are designed to remove the DUST. The best way to deal with the fine dust is the have a proper dust collector and remove the fine dust at the source so it never enters the air. This is done by being anal about your collection system and ducting and by properly designing a system that moves the right amount of air at the right velocity for each machine. Lots of things come into play in figuring this out including CFM of your collector, static pressure loss, and velocity to keep the small particles suspended in the duct work unitl it reaches the collector. If done right, you will have very little, if any, of the small, harmful dust floating around in your shop. You may end up with lots of bigger chips on the floor but it is pretty darn hard to breathe in the big chips! Those are easy to sweep up and deal with!

No need for an air cleaner if you have the right collection system. This includes, most importantly, the proper filtration on the outflow side of the collector if you are re-circulating the air. The standard bags that come with most collectors are actually more dangerous than having nothing since the system just acts like a huge dust pump, sending the most dangerous stuff back into the room. The very best way to deal with the return air is to vent it outside so that it is not even an issue. Some of us condition our shops and want to return our heated or cooled air back into the shop to keep from wasting energy so we use the proper filter on the outflow side.

My Clearvue cyclone has a filter that is 99.99% efficient on particles .5 microns and above. That is about as good as it gets. This is not the same as a bag type filter that is rated to .5 microns. Most are not efficeint at all at .5 microns but they will catch some of the .5 micron stuff. In contrast, the best air cleaner that I have seen is 91% efficient at 1 micron! Why not just capture the dust as it is being made and be done with it!
 
jocat54 said:
What is the best DC for the money?
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When I was researching about 5 years ago I found that the PSI was a good value. Mine is an older version of this http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC2V3.html
Came with decent bags and good cfm flow.

I have a full shop and this machine is plumbed to all of the major tools. As long as I only have one port open it pulls excellent.

At the lathe I use the hood from PSI http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DLHOODC2.html?mybuyscid=2544934390
With this hood the dust goes to the collector and when doing pens I can get it close enough that It pull almost everything.

Good luck and whatever you do make sure you address the dust with something
 
MesquiteMan said:
DUST collectors ARE NOT designed to remove the large chips and shavings, quite the contrary. They are designed to remove the DUST. The best way to deal with the fine dust is the have a proper dust collector and remove the fine dust at the source so it never enters the air. This is done by being anal about your collection system and ducting and by properly designing a system that moves the right amount of air at the right velocity for each machine. Lots of things come into play in figuring this out including CFM of your collector, static pressure loss, and velocity to keep the small particles suspended in the duct work unitl it reaches the collector. If done right, you will have very little, if any, of the small, harmful dust floating around in your shop. You may end up with lots of bigger chips on the floor but it is pretty darn hard to breathe in the big chips! Those are easy to sweep up and deal with!

No need for an air cleaner if you have the right collection system. This includes, most importantly, the proper filtration on the outflow side of the collector if you are re-circulating the air. The standard bags that come with most collectors are actually more dangerous than having nothing since the system just acts like a huge dust pump, sending the most dangerous stuff back into the room. The very best way to deal with the return air is to vent it outside so that it is not even an issue. Some of us condition our shops and want to return our heated or cooled air back into the shop to keep from wasting energy so we use the proper filter on the outflow side.

My Clearvue cyclone has a filter that is 99.99% efficient on particles .5 microns and above. That is about as good as it gets. This is not the same as a bag type filter that is rated to .5 microns. Most are not efficeint at all at .5 microns but they will catch some of the .5 micron stuff. In contrast, the best air cleaner that I have seen is 91% efficient at 1 micron! Why not just capture the dust as it is being made and be done with it!
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I respectfully disagree here but that is my opinion. I do agree being anal about the ducting system will be what collects the bulk of the dust.
 
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FREE DUST FILTER PLANS, SEE BELOW, MINE COST $29 TO BUILD

Using a dust collector and a mask are not enough! Most of the woods (and acrylics) that we turn are deadly. The dust that you "see" is not as much of a problem as the dust you do not "see"

The very small particles are the ones that disable LUNGS! In addition to a dust collector which takes care of the "chunks" and a mask that protects you WHILE you are turning , a dust filter that eliminates the smallest of particles should be run BEFORE, DURING and AFTER working in the shop.

THIS LINK IS FOR A SHOP MADE DUST FILTER THAT WORKS AS WELL OR BETTER THAN THE EXPENSIVE ONES. Additionally, you can ask your local HVAC expert for a used "squirrel cage" blow and you can likely get the most expensive part of this filter FOR FREE.

FREE DUST FILTER PLANS: http://www.twistedknotwoodshop.com/airfilter.htm
 
MesquiteMan said:
My Clearvue cyclone has a filter that is 99.99% efficient on particles .5 microns and above. That is about as good as it gets. This is not the same as a bag type filter that is rated to .5 microns. Most are not efficeint at all at .5 microns but they will catch some of the .5 micron stuff. In contrast, the best air cleaner that I have seen is 91% efficient at 1 micron! Why not just capture the dust as it is being made and be done with it!
Click to expand...

I agree with Curtis on the Clearvue. But I have COPD. My doctor, also a wood turner came to my shop and we measured the air while running the cyclone alone and then we turned on the air filter. The difference was remarkable! As it was explained to me, when the cyclone is running, everything is good. When the Clearvue motor shuts down, tiny particles are ACTUALLY RELEASED from the motor.

My doctor told me that anyone who turns or sands wood without a cyclone dust collector AND a filtration system that can be run before entering and after exiting the shop is a fool. I choose to take his advice.
 
Dont misunderstand me, but this harmless hobby is starting to cost more money and trouble than I can afford.
I am seriously considering just using the 20 or so pen kits I have left and getting rid of all my pen making stuff. :-(
 
A $20.00 quality dust mask would be very beneficial and probably adequate for a low volume hobbyist. Don't give up on the fun.
 
Padre said:
Yes, it is that bad. Even if you don't have an immediate reaction to a wood, as you do in walnut, you are sensitizing yourself to all the woods you turn. You are breathing in microscopic particles of wood, bone, antler, resin. And sooner or later you will start to notice that every time you turn a certain kind of wood, you can't breath right, you get asthma like conditions.

You could start by reading this thread, and then go from there.
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Or a rash ! I posted about my fun with cocobolo in Jan.
Since then I have gotten a good dust collector! Thought I would give cocobolo another try ... this time with precautions. Went ok ... turned a Roadster. Couple days later .... little rash breaking out! :eek::eek::mad:

Take all measures BEFORE it happens!
 
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truckerdave said:
Dont misunderstand me, but this harmless hobby is starting to cost more money and trouble than I can afford.
I am seriously considering just using the 20 or so pen kits I have left and getting rid of all my pen making stuff. :-(
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If all you are doing is pens you definetly don't need an elaborate dust collection system. It is when you get into the big dust producing tools that you need to start doing your homework and if you do it for long periods of time. Safety has no price tag.
 
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