Thinking about ANOTHER grinder-switch...

[mbellek]

Ugh, for those of you who might not remember, here is the grinder history of Melanie:

I started out on a craftsman 6" 3450 RPM belonging to my father in law.

Then I got my own shop and I bought the Woodcraft 8" 1725RPM for $100. I also got the 4pc jig set from PSI for $115. Well, the wheels on the WC grinder are, in a word, terrible. They are not round, and if you spin them by hand with the power off, you can see them zig-zag back and forth... The whole unit vibrates so badly when it's revving up that my house feels like its going to fall down. And then when its winding down after I turn it off, I can't turn my lathe on until its motionless (that's how much it vibrates the whole room)...

I'm still under 90 days so I can still return it.

I want to return it for a Tormek-style wet-grinder. A real Tormek, even a Jet is wayyy out of my budget and not even a consideration. I'd like some opinions, if anyone can point me toward a good one that is less than $250. So far I've found a PSI for $179, a Grizzly for $154, and a Harbor Freight for $100.

I'm wondering if Harbor Freight is too good to be true? Why does their grinder include jigs and STILL come in cheaper than the rest??

Do you absolutely have to have jigs to use with one of these? I can spend more on a grinder if I don't have to buy jigs... I can't use the PSI jigs on the Tormek-style grinder, right?

Any help out there for me? []

 

[toolcrazy]

Contact woodcraft and they will replace the wheels. I have the same grinder and have a minor out of round, hit them with a diamond wheel dresser and they are not too bad. I like this grinder, I would go through the trouble to get woodcraft to replace the wheels.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I know you CAN use Tormek jigs on the JET grinder, but that's the extent of my knowledge about it...I know also that the Jet's supposed to be just as good as the Tormek, but that's just from what I've read.

I've never used one, and don't think I ever will - WAY out of my budget.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

What I'd do is return the whole thing, get a new one, and check the wheels before I put it together to make sure they're round...I think you got the lemon in the bunch...try it again before you dismiss it altogether - many people love that grinder, and they wouldn't if it were garbage...

How's the lathe, by the way? Like it?

 

[toolcrazy]

Or, to save money, buy some better wheels, I think that would be cheaper than buying the tomac and all the jigs needed.

 

[mbellek]

Toolcrazy, I did contact woodcraft and simply ask them to replace the wheels... They said I must return the entire machine... I would've liked to do it that way, but it doesn't seem that will happen.

Plus, I just wish I had bought the tormek-style of grinder in the first place... I have a big case of buyer's remorse. I thought my WC would be noticably slower than the 3450, but its not. I can tell that if I were not super careful, I would have a set of blue tools. (Though I was told on here that with HSS blue is not harmful? Is that true?)

I found a Delta wet grinder on eBay for $36, with 3 days to go. I might watch that one and bid like $100 if it doesn't get higher... I'm not sure yet.

I'm DEFINITELY not going to get a Tormek, or even a Jet... I'm looking more at the lower-end ones...

 

[mbellek]

Originally posted by maxwell_smart007
<br />What I'd do is return the whole thing, get a new one, and check the wheels before I put it together to make sure they're round...I think you got the lemon in the bunch...try it again before you dismiss it altogether - many people love that grinder, and they wouldn't if it were garbage...

How's the lathe, by the way? Like it?

I LOOOOOOVE my lathe!!!! I can't believe the difference between the Jet and the craftsman I started on...

I can see now why I might've liked the VS model, honestly, but changing speeds is very very easy on my model, so I have no regrets.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

If it's bluing you're worried about - don't be...bluing is only an issue on high carbon steel - of the type used in really really old turning tools...all modern tools you'll buy are High Speed Steel

As the name suggests, it's not affected by high speeds, meaning it keeps its temper and hardness even when the edge turns blue. Bluing is definitely not a problem, so don't worry about it.

Andrew

 

[mbellek]

Seriously? Blue away? Get them as blue as I dare? Really?

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I still try to grind without getting it blue - just for technique's sake - but no, it doesn't hurt high speed steel at all. I always tend to get some blue, even with white and light blue wheels at really slow speeds - but that's 'cause I'm impatient and tend to force it more than I should.

So don't worry if it's blue - it'll still cut fine! (Unless you're sharpening an old old tool or a bench tool - they are likely not HSS)

Andrew

 

[Fred]

Mel ... Try and avoid the bluing just in case your dad is watching. He might want to "educate" you on the effects of over heating the metal and changing the temper. If possible, keep a jug of water nearby and dunk the shaft in it quite often while sharpening. Be sure to oil the metal after you are finished and it is dry.

My personal recommendation is to turn as slow as possible, use a wet wheel, and mount the tool in the proper jig. The jig will allow you to repeat the sharpening every time and that in turn will avoid excessive loss of metal.

Also, I believe that a grinder is just that a grinder, while a device like the Tormek is indeed a sharpening device. When you make your fortune and can go buy the Tormek and immediately see the difference between grinding and sharpening. I promise I will not be the one to say, "I told you so!" []

Work with Woodcraft and they will make the exchange for the out-of-round device you have now. Just don't use the unit anymore until you get it exchanged.

 

[woodman928]

You didn't get the only Lemon mine is the same way real crappy wheels and by the time I got it set up it was to late to send back. I've never seen new wheels run so bad I have ground off about 3/16" of the wheel and its still out of round.[!][!]
Jay

 

[toolcrazy]

The wheels on the woodcraft are a bit coarse for turning tools, but work fine if you're careful. I will eventually replace my wheels with finer units when I can afford it. I'm sure someone here can recommend what brand to use. If I remember right OneWay sells some nice wheels (I may be wrong). There is nothing wrong with the WC Grinder, they just use crappy wheels to save some cash. I bought my grinder with the thought at the beginning to replace the wheels. Just haven't got that far yet.

 

[toolcrazy]

Check these out.

http://www.oneway.on.ca/sharpening/wheels.htm

 

[mbellek]

$57 for ONE wheel though? I mean, should I really spend another $120 on this grinder? Or should I return it and get what I really want? For $340 (the original WC $100, the PSI Jig $114, and $114 in these hypothetical wheels) -- I can afford a Jet sharpening system (or almost!),,,,

This sucks. Still don't know what to do.

(And JAY - you told me of your WC woes before I bought this grinder... I wish I had listened to you. OHHHHH How I wish!! I was just so caught up in getting my whole shop set up... But on the other hand, we MUST have gotten lemons because so many people on here like this grinder.)

 

[Glass Scratcher]

If you don't like the grinding wheel, the courseness or the price, make one. How, you might ask??? Of course you will have to turn your grinder so that it spins away from you not toward you.

Get a 3/4" or 1" thick piece of MDF at Lowes/Home Depot, cut a round wheel out of it. Center drill it, or center drill it and turn it round on your lathe. Get some fresh/clean 60,80,100 grit Silicon Carbide abbrasive from a auto paint shop or welding shop (4oz will last a lifetime for this) and a small bottle of white glue, and a bar of bees wax(availble at WC or HF). After making and mounting the wheel on the grinder, take the white glue and run it around the wheel while hand turning it, then spread it thinly from edge to edge. While the glue is still wet take the SiC (silicon carbide) sprinkle it on the glue till it forms a full uniform layer(it doesn't take a lot). Let it dry (it should only take about 10 to 20 minutes) turn on the grinder, apply the bar of bees wax against the wheel. Apply your wheel dressing stone to knock down any built up SiC. You now have a new wheel, with fresh abbrasive. Always use more bees wax before any grinding or sharpening as a lubricating agent. When the wheel gets worn, take a bastard file or your dressing stone to grind down the remaining rough spots and re-apply glue and SiC and you have a fresh wheel.

Again using this system means you have to turn the grinder around so that it is spinning away from you and you grind in the upper quadrant on the facing wheel.

Of course you could just buy the system from WC or the maker.
http://www.sharpeningwheels.com/

 

[dachemist]

Don't feel too bad, I too was stuck w/a lemon when I bought my WC grinder a few years ago. Unfortunately I didn't have the sense to return it. Well, I think the grinders fine, it's the wheels that are the problem. I may have cracked one of the wheels that came on it so I spent another $60 and ordered a set of what I believe were the same type of wheels from WC before I knew better. [] What I would do is return the WC grinder and PSI jig. Before I go further keep in mind I tend to lose quite a bit on shipping charges returning things I shouldn't have ordered in the first place. [B)][] Then I would get a HF wet sharpener and the Tormek jigs. At least one of the members (sfines I believe it was) here has one of the HF grinders and as far as I know uses it sucessfully. Also HF sells their version of jigs now, not the highest quality but for the cost savings they may be worth a try (you could always send them back and get most of your money back). I ordered the HF grinder plus all the jigs for around $220. However after 3 weeks and 2 backorder notifications I (tried) to cancel the order. One of the jigs (the flat rest for sharpening scrapers, etc.) was sent "on time". I was going to send it back but I would have spent as much on shipping as I did originally buying it. I've seen the HF grinder in the store and while it's not as rugged as the Tormek/Jet I do think it would work reasonably well. I broke down and bought a Jet a few weeks ago and a few days later I came home to find the HF grinder in front of my house. For what it's worth the HF box does have some nice pictures on it. [] So now I'm waiting for HF to send me a return label for it. WOO HOO! More $ on shipping! []

As a side note (and since I'm past due for starting a new paragraph []) if you do decide to try the HF grinder I'll send you the jig I have if you want it. It's not as refined as the "name brand" ones but seems like it would work ok.

I saw the PSI/Grizzly version (to me they look the same except for color scheme) and figured they would take to much tinkering with to get them to work with the Tormek jigs. And the point of buying a wet grinder for me was avoiding free hand sharpening.

I realize none of this is probably helping but on the plus side my thoughts didn't cost you anything. []