Hi everyone im just getting started pen turning. I was turning the sierra pen and i also had a wobble problem. After reading this topic i measured my bushings. They both are .011 off from one wall thickness to the other [ .063-.074 ] im having enough problems without this. Guess ill give AS a call on monday. How are the polaris pens, any problems? Thank you ALL for all the good advice and knowledge. Gary/ Golden Colorado
More on the sierra bushing topic
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Randy_
Member
Does Berea even sell this kit?? I don't see it on their web site?? Far as I know this kit is only available from Woodcraft and Arizona Silhouettes. Seems to me that our beef is with the guy "WE" get the pens from....and not Berea....so their attitude in this isn't relevant. If AS and Woodcraft are dissatisfied with the stock they are receiving from their suppliers, then "THEY" need to deal with it. Who do you think the supplier is going to pay more attention to, the pencrafter who makes 10 kits a year or the reseller who orders the kits by the thousands??
Randy_
Member
Thanks for the measurement, Jim. We are within a thou of each other. Guess a our mikes were made at the same shop and certainly not the place where the bushings were manufactured. [
][][]Not quite sure what the last line suggests. Sort of sounds like you are apologizing for this thread?? Don't!! I think everyone will agree that by raising this issue, you have done a real service to the pen crafting community. Firstly, you have caused a lot of people to be informed of a problem that they may not have been aware of and secondly....since I have already read the rest of the thread......you have attracted the attention of BB of AS and we have discovered that there is a resolution to the problem, forthcoming, and that as we have come to expect from BB, folks who have a problem will have their difficulties taken care of. BB has always been an up-front guy and this is just another example!! So, I say thanks to you for raising the subject and waving the flag to attract some attention. Good job!!! [^][^]
Randy_
Member
So much for the speculation about how the bushings are manufactured.....now we know.
Thanks, Bill!! We all knew you would come through for us when the chips were down!![
][]
Randy_
Member
Mikey, that's the way I see it, too!!
Not sure; but I think if you would rotate the blank on the mandrel(no not the mandrel; but rather on the bushings) 3 times by a quarter turn each time, you would get a barrel that was reasonably round and concentric; but you would have to be real careful and use a caliper and rotate before you got down to the bushing. If you turned all the way down to the bushing before rotating the blank, one part of the pen would already be too thin and not match with the hardware. This is really just some mental gymnastics as it would be a real pain to actually accomplish the feat!!
alamocdc
Member
Yes, Randy, Berea is the source. I have spoken to them about this personally. They DO NOT care. Fortunately, as can be seen by his post above, BB is doing what he can to appease the masses. BTW, Ernie at Beartooth also sells the Sierra.
Mikey
Member
Finally found all the bushings I have and my dial calipers.
The 2 sets of "undersized" bushings I have all have ODs on the large end of .475 and ODs on the small end of .383 The wall thicknesses of the small end that fits into the tube are within a thousandth as far as I could tell, so he holes are centered. In reading another post in this topic, the poster used a plastic bag as shim stock. I slid a plastic pen bag into my calipers and what do you know.... .004. if I add the bag and cut, I should be able to get the .387 that I got below on the "corrected bushings".
The two sets of "corrected bushings I have all have ODs at .475 on the Large end, bt ODs of .387 on the small end. It would seem these fit much better into the tube except that the wall thicknesses of each bushing vary greatly. #1 .064-.072 #2 .066-.071 #3 .064-.073 and #4 .065-.072 These numbers confirm the theory that the corrected bushings were "drilled" wrong.
The tubes I have measure .390 at the ID, so the corrected bushing diameter of .387 is Ok for me I guess. I don't know why they settlled on .387, but it should work fine. Personally, I would rather have to push the bushings into the tubes and then have to knock them out, but I assume everyone isn't like me. (that would be sad)
The 2 sets of "undersized" bushings I have all have ODs on the large end of .475 and ODs on the small end of .383 The wall thicknesses of the small end that fits into the tube are within a thousandth as far as I could tell, so he holes are centered. In reading another post in this topic, the poster used a plastic bag as shim stock. I slid a plastic pen bag into my calipers and what do you know.... .004. if I add the bag and cut, I should be able to get the .387 that I got below on the "corrected bushings".
The two sets of "corrected bushings I have all have ODs at .475 on the Large end, bt ODs of .387 on the small end. It would seem these fit much better into the tube except that the wall thicknesses of each bushing vary greatly. #1 .064-.072 #2 .066-.071 #3 .064-.073 and #4 .065-.072 These numbers confirm the theory that the corrected bushings were "drilled" wrong.
The tubes I have measure .390 at the ID, so the corrected bushing diameter of .387 is Ok for me I guess. I don't know why they settlled on .387, but it should work fine. Personally, I would rather have to push the bushings into the tubes and then have to knock them out, but I assume everyone isn't like me. (that would be sad)
clewless
Member
Just shared my findings with Ernie @ beartoothwoods. .064-.074 walls with .385 diameter.
He said that he will be looking into it ASAP. Off to check his inventory...
So folks, the aftermarket guys are being very up front with us, hopefully, they will be able to bring pressure to bear (multi-puns not intended.)
Joe in MD
He said that he will be looking into it ASAP. Off to check his inventory...
So folks, the aftermarket guys are being very up front with us, hopefully, they will be able to bring pressure to bear (multi-puns not intended.)
Joe in MD
Pen Man
Member
I have been out to Berea shop 2 times From Lincoln, Nebraska. Just the first of the year. From the time the kit came out till now I bought from Him about 600 of them (no I have not made all them) about 40 so far and I I love the kits[]. I seen there was a problem,[] but now you have pointed it out it is really noticeable. I HOPE THEY GET THE THIRD SET RIGHT.
]. I seen there was a problem,[] but now you have pointed it out it is really noticeable. I HOPE THEY GET THE THIRD SET RIGHT.
Randy_
Member
Hey Billy: I understand that Berea is the manufacturer of this kit; but what I still am not sure I understand is if one( me ) can call up Berea and order the bushings and a couple of kits. For some reason, I was under the impression that you could "ONLY" get this kit from a Berea reseller like AS, Woodcraft or Beartooth?? I don't have the current Berea catalog; but I can't find the Sierra kit offered on their web site??? Thanks.
Randy_
Member
A CONTINUED COMITTMENT TO
QUALITY, IMPROVEMENT AND SERVICE
SUPERIOR TOOLING
We also make every attempt to provide superior tooling such as industrial quality parabolic drills, precision made bushings and mandrels.
What you can expect from us:
• To be treated well
• To receive high quality kits and wood.
• To be offered products that are priced fairly.
• To receive outstanding technical support
• To have problems solved quickly and fairly
• WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU IN ANY WAY WE CAN
Found the above while surfing the net. "Sounds" good doesn't it!![B)]
QUALITY, IMPROVEMENT AND SERVICE
SUPERIOR TOOLING
We also make every attempt to provide superior tooling such as industrial quality parabolic drills, precision made bushings and mandrels.
What you can expect from us:
• To be treated well
• To receive high quality kits and wood.
• To be offered products that are priced fairly.
• To receive outstanding technical support
• To have problems solved quickly and fairly
• WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU IN ANY WAY WE CAN
Found the above while surfing the net. "Sounds" good doesn't it!![B)]
myname1960
Member
I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings.
When trying the bushings in the tubes they fit fine ( about .0005 difference ) but my problem came in when i wanted to put the bushings on the mandrill. There was about a .040 diameter difference in bushing/mandill fit. Yep that was about .040 and not .004 difference. I didnt check the wall thickness as i never figured i needed too.
I called and asked about a larger mandrill shaft but they said they only carried the one size and it will work. The guy at the store told me to use the existing bushings with my mandrill but be sure to tighten it up good. He said it will all work out fine that way. [V]
Now you should have seen what that looked like and i did try to center them the best i could. By the way i never even put them on my lathe and tried it. I only imagined what would happen if the bushings shifted on the mandrill when running it. I think they need to get a larger size mandrill shaft for these bushings like other suppliers do.
Ok the story does have a good ending as i work in a machine shop and have access to lathes so i can make bushings that fit my smaller mandrill shaft. I turned the ods and bored the ids myself. I now have bushings that have at most .0005 difference between the bushings/tubes and .001 difference between the bushing/mandrills. Now this set runs a lot truer. [^]
If i want to get the Sierra kit do i need to make my own bushings or will they have the problem solved soon? If i had a way of knowing the correct bushing size i might be able to make a set for the Sierra's kits i want to get. If they cant get it right i know i can. []
Chris
When trying the bushings in the tubes they fit fine ( about .0005 difference ) but my problem came in when i wanted to put the bushings on the mandrill. There was about a .040 diameter difference in bushing/mandill fit. Yep that was about .040 and not .004 difference. I didnt check the wall thickness as i never figured i needed too.
I called and asked about a larger mandrill shaft but they said they only carried the one size and it will work. The guy at the store told me to use the existing bushings with my mandrill but be sure to tighten it up good. He said it will all work out fine that way. [V]
Now you should have seen what that looked like and i did try to center them the best i could. By the way i never even put them on my lathe and tried it. I only imagined what would happen if the bushings shifted on the mandrill when running it. I think they need to get a larger size mandrill shaft for these bushings like other suppliers do.
Ok the story does have a good ending as i work in a machine shop and have access to lathes so i can make bushings that fit my smaller mandrill shaft. I turned the ods and bored the ids myself. I now have bushings that have at most .0005 difference between the bushings/tubes and .001 difference between the bushing/mandrills. Now this set runs a lot truer. [^]
If i want to get the Sierra kit do i need to make my own bushings or will they have the problem solved soon? If i had a way of knowing the correct bushing size i might be able to make a set for the Sierra's kits i want to get. If they cant get it right i know i can. [
]Chris
alamocdc
Member
Chris, from the sounds of it, I'd make my own. Third time may be a charm here, but...
Randy_
Member
On 1/29/06, admin@penturners.org <admin@penturners.org> wrote:
Here is a new post in that topic from 'myname1960'
I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings.
Chris: If you buy the El Grande kit and bushings from Berea you will get bushings for the Berea "B" mandrel which has a diameter of 0.291 as opposed to the 0.247 OD of the 7 mm mandrel......mandrel difference = 0.044". My understanding is that Woodcraft has special bushings made up so that Berea kits that require the "B" mandrel can be turned on the WC
7 mm mandrels. Sounds like WC messed up and sent you some Berea "B" bushings by mistake. The size difference is almost exactly the same as the difference that you found.
I'm not familiar with the Churchill kit so I can't help you there??
Here is a new post in that topic from 'myname1960'
I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings.
Chris: If you buy the El Grande kit and bushings from Berea you will get bushings for the Berea "B" mandrel which has a diameter of 0.291 as opposed to the 0.247 OD of the 7 mm mandrel......mandrel difference = 0.044". My understanding is that Woodcraft has special bushings made up so that Berea kits that require the "B" mandrel can be turned on the WC
7 mm mandrels. Sounds like WC messed up and sent you some Berea "B" bushings by mistake. The size difference is almost exactly the same as the difference that you found.
I'm not familiar with the Churchill kit so I can't help you there??
myname1960
Member
Randy,
Thank you for the information. The .040 difference was a top of the head number and the .044 is correct. I went to a local WC store and picked up the El Grande and Churchill Kits the same time i got the bushings for the kits. Both kits take the same bushings.
My second conversation with this WC store i actually spoke to the owner and she said sometimes it happens like that where the bushings are a little different from the kits. I was a little put off by it but already had my own set of homemade bushings that fit correctly so i left it alone.
The only thing they could have done to actually make it right to me was give me the money back i paid for the bushings but i did use their bushing's numbers ( with corrections ) to make mine with so i felt i was even. Well now i have 2 sets of bushings for the same kit that i can use on 2 different sized mandrels.
Thanks again for the information, I will pass it along to the local WC store so no one else will have this problem.
Chris
Thank you for the information. The .040 difference was a top of the head number and the .044 is correct. I went to a local WC store and picked up the El Grande and Churchill Kits the same time i got the bushings for the kits. Both kits take the same bushings.
My second conversation with this WC store i actually spoke to the owner and she said sometimes it happens like that where the bushings are a little different from the kits. I was a little put off by it but already had my own set of homemade bushings that fit correctly so i left it alone.
The only thing they could have done to actually make it right to me was give me the money back i paid for the bushings but i did use their bushing's numbers ( with corrections ) to make mine with so i felt i was even. Well now i have 2 sets of bushings for the same kit that i can use on 2 different sized mandrels.
Thanks again for the information, I will pass it along to the local WC store so no one else will have this problem.
Chris
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