Looking for BASH Critiques.

[Haynie]

I had a great time even thought i didnt win anything, also didnt have much time to enter in all the contests, but i had fun none the less!!

So here is my one critique........Fisrt off, im not here to win anything, im here for the love of making pens, so prizes werent a huge issue for me, but i was a little disappointed that most of the prizes were the same. Now i want to personally thank Constant and Lazerlinz for all of the prizes and the extent of the prizes that he donated to this years bash!!! THANK YOU!!!!! But this is part of the problem. In almost every contest there were prizes from Constant in the form of gift certificates and laser kits. While great for some, i personally dont do kit pens, so this would mostly be a waste for me, and if i did, i also dont do laser kits, just dont like stuff like that, so i had a very high percentage of winning something from Constant in every contest and in some contests all 3 prizes were form him. Now like i said, this is great for some, and really great for the new guys, but i wouldnt have any use for those and would have just sold them or donated them back to IAP. I would have liked to see a larger diversity of prizes other than laser kits and gift certificates to buy laser kits. Again i want to thank Constant for being a huge part of this years bash and on IAP in general!!! I look forward to many more Birthday Bash's!!!!

Justin

Just as a "point of fact": Constant volunteered 25 prizes this year---for a total value of $2500!!! Certainly a GENEROUS contribution.

There were a total of 178 prizes when the bash started and about 25 or so that were added through the month. So, if we round to 200, Lazerlinez provided One out of every EIGHT prizes. But, they were "big ticket" which are usually allocated to the high profile contests.

I am certain that Andrew (Maxwell_Smart007) would LOVE to have more vendors step forward with this type of support----I will never understand HOW he keeps his sanity in the four MONTHS leading up to the bash!!!

He had one person helping this year, if you have "favorite vendors" that you would like to see do more for the bash, volunteer to help Andrew ---I'm sure he would be happy for the help!!

All true, but check this out.

Russ Fairfield contest
1st & 2nd place = Laserlinz

Freestyle Contest
1st & 2nd place = Laserlinz

Modified Contest
1st place = Laserlinz

Intermediate Contest
1st place = Laserlinz

Color Casting Contest
2nd place = Laserlinz

Embeded Contest
2nd & 3rd place = Laserlinz

Tube Casting
1st & 2nd = Laserlinz

Beginners Contest
3rd = Laserlinz

These are the contests i am talking about, one where you are making a pen, not trivia or crossword puzzle, or photo contest, ones where you had to make a pen. As i am like most people and like to win first or second place, you can see that if i were to win first or second place in most of the pen making contests, that i have a very high chance of getting something from Laserlinz. Not a bad thing, but a lot of times i thought i would rather win second or third, just for a useable prize. Again, im not here to get free stuff, but again, if i wanted to win first or second in almost all of the contests i would have entered in, i would win something form the same vendor. This is where i would like to see the diversity. Not multiple items from the same vendor. Not all the same vendors items in all of the contests. This has nothing to do with Constant, its that he only sells a few items, not like Classic, IPD or Exotics, with a vast selection to suit everyone. Even with them, i would like to see a diversity of items from different vendors.

Constant, again i thank you for all that you did for the bash and for all that you do here on IAP, for you firm belie in you American products, and for jumping into you very own pen product lines!!! i salute you!!

Justin

So pride in winning would not have been enough

 

[Timebandit]

So pride in winning would not have been enough

Sure, so is pride in losing, which i did, but still, if i would have one first or second place in all the contests i would have ended up with a bunch of the same thing. Just trying to make the prizes different across the board, not limit them

 

[hunter-27]

I would like to see the some small changes in the pens/casting and photo contests.

First, I think all the entries in those contests should be anonymous. This year some were and some were not.

Second, I would like to see "judges" pick the top six from the entries. Those six finalists would then be presented to the membership for voting to determine the final winners. Judging is very subjective and I just think that having the members vote does a lot to eliminate or at least balance out the subjective factor.

Clarification, please!

Not sure why the photo contest was included in changes suggested since this is how the photo contest has always been done. Entries are via the entry form and remain anonymous until the contest is over. The judges picked the top 6 or so entries and then they were put for a vote by the members, exactly as you suggest. What am I missing? Seriously wanting to know so I can be sure to address your suggestions for next year if we do the photo contest again.

Curtis,
My take on what was said is that they really liked what you did except possibly they thought all the entries should be posted not just the judges final six for the poll. Maybe I interpreted it differently than others but I think that is what was said.

 

[eupher58]

It's my first bash, and it was a ball! Already lookin forward to the next! And I even won a trivia contest! This site inspires to think ahead, and be spectacular in your creation. The great thing about the trivia is that it forced me to become better acquainted with the site layout, so big help there! On the slightly down side,someone earlier opined;

"
I see alot of folks saying keep photos hidden and let a panel pick 6 and post to general population. If thats the case then all photos should be posted for an initail vote(blind) then the top 6 set up for a revote(blind again) This way everyones pen photos get posted to be seen by the forum during the competition and it still allows for the population to vote(be pretty disappointing to submit a pen and then the only chance it is seen in in March after the bash(because a judge didnt think it was top 6 material)

I entered a pen the the Russ Fairfield competition, and I almost didn't, simply because I'm still in the moderate learning phase, where things seldom look as good as they did in the planning stage, and was a bit intimidated by other entries, as were probably others. A blind entry, shown in groups of six, with a poll, and winners advancing to the final is probably more work for the marvelous sponsors, but would lead to more entries. My entry was outclassed, and I knew that when I submitted it.....I don't know I'm starting to ramble....

At any rate, the bash was a blast, and who knows, I may be so inspired as to make a prize donation myself for next years, just to you know, share the wealth, and payback for all I've learned here. Well Done sponsors, donators, and all who played along!

 

[hunter-27]

It's my first bash, and it was a ball! Already lookin forward to the next! And I even won a trivia contest! This site inspires to think ahead, and be spectacular in your creation. The great thing about the trivia is that it forced me to become better acquainted with the site layout, so big help there! On the slightly down side,someone earlier opined;

"
I see alot of folks saying keep photos hidden and let a panel pick 6 and post to general population. If thats the case then all photos should be posted for an initail vote(blind) then the top 6 set up for a revote(blind again) This way everyones pen photos get posted to be seen by the forum during the competition and it still allows for the population to vote(be pretty disappointing to submit a pen and then the only chance it is seen in in March after the bash(because a judge didnt think it was top 6 material)

Speaking for myself here, it was not A judge that made my contest finalists list, it was a TEAM of more than qualified judges, that provided input which ultimately was consolidated to produce the finalists. I do agree perhaps that there could be room in the results for more than a final 3, that is an easy fix. On the other hand, if you made the steep cut to the final three, it should really give you that "warm and fuzzy" feeling, knowing you were among the best of the best. Possibly other categories within the contest might also accomplish the same thing. I think it is a valid point to consider.

I entered a pen the the Russ Fairfield competition, and I almost didn't, simply because I'm still in the moderate learning phase, where things seldom look as good as they did in the planning stage, and was a bit intimidated by other entries, as were probably others. A blind entry, shown in groups of six, with a poll, and winners advancing to the final is probably more work for the marvelous sponsors, but would lead to more entries. My entry was outclassed, and I knew that when I submitted it.....I don't know I'm starting to ramble....

At any rate, the bash was a blast, and who knows, I may be so inspired as to make a prize donation myself for next years, just to you know, share the wealth, and payback for all I've learned here. Well Done sponsors, donators, and all who played along!

Thanks again for the ideas and comments.

 

[Florida Marine]

Any thought given to breaking out the competitions to folks who do this for a living versus those of who don't? Amateur vs Pro categories?

Personally, I am not going to compete again against folks who I know I don't have a chance in hell of beating.

I do this on a spare evening, and they do it all week and/or as a primary source of income?

It would be like me laying down a challenge against a ham radio operator and asking him/her to lay down comms for a Marine Infantry Battalion or Regiment. I would run circles around them since its what I do for a living and have been for the last 22 yrs.

I know in the casting contest I entered that the folks who seem to have won, many/most seem at least on a quick glance to do this as a source of income.

Maybe I am off base or my quick check was off...

My .02

 

[alankulwicki7]

Thanks to all of the organizers, sponsors, donors and participants of this years bash. Even though I did not win anything:frown:, it still was fun!:biggrin:

Here are a couple of my suggestions (most have been covered already):

-Allow a person to win the trivia once (per Bash of course). This would allow more people a chance to win prizes.

-Create different categories based on number of pens made (ie:Beginner(<75 pens), Intermediate (76-199 pens) and Expert (200+ pens) or something like that. Even though I turned my first pen about 2 years ago, I still consider myself a beginner because I've only made about 30 pens.

-In the pen contest threads do not allow any posting or comments until all entries have been posted. This makes it easier to look at the entries. The other possibility would be to post all entries at the same time. Then people might still enter a contest without knowing what their competition is.


These are just my humble opinions. Thanks again for all of the hard work everyone put into the bash !:biggrin:

Thanks!
Doug

 

[soligen]

Regarding the under 50 pens vs. 6 months. I think 6 months is a better choice. One reason is that I know WHEN I made my first pen, but not exactly how many.

I also think 50 pens is not a beginner. Take myself as an example. I just counted my photos. I found photos, or have distinct memory of 43 pens. The first 4 or 5 I ever made didn't get photos, and there are probably a few others.

This means that I am right at the 50 pen mark. - Its a coin toss if I am over or under, yet I took second in the freestyle contest.

Even if I could prove I was under 50, I would not feel right entering a beginner contest.

Since both must be on the honor system, I think 6 months is a better indicator of a beginner.

 

[soligen]

My only thought was the contests need to end on a sunday evening where possible. this would allow a full weekend for that last ditch effort to finish an entry for those that have to work during the week.

edited in: Just for the record I have not yet made 50 pens total.

I have to agree - the only difference between me & Mike is that I managed to finish my pen just a couple hours before the deadline - it was a close call due to several failures and a busy work week. 24 more weekend hours would have been much less stressful.

edit in: Please don't read too much into the word stressful. It's just that it came down to the wire because there were 4 or 5 failures proceeding my entry pen, and I only planned for 2 or 3 failures.

 

[soligen]

Any thought given to breaking out the competitions to folks who do this for a living versus those of who don't? Amateur vs Pro categories?

...

It would be like me laying down a challenge against a ham radio operator and asking him/her to lay down comms for a Marine Infantry Battalion or Regiment. I would run circles around them since its what I do for a living and have been for the last 22 yrs.

I am going to respectfully disagree. In any sort of TIMED event, a pro will have a HUGE advantage - I give you that. And laying down COM lines in the military I imagine time does matter, so you are exactly right. But, what if you gave the HAM operator 2 weeks, but you only had 1 day?

These contests are not timed. In fact, I can argue that the hobbyist has the advantage. Let me explain why.

A pro needs to pay attention to their time, because time is money. They are very good at what they so, but cant afford to spend weeks on one pen, and as it isn't a hobby, they are not likely to ever do so.

As a hobbyist, I have no problem spending 50 - 80 hours on one pen. Since I don't sell them, I don't need to make them fast. This gives me a lot more opportunity to experiment, do trial and error to get it right, and give attention to detail. You just need to plan ahead. I had my vision for a bash pen in November, and had to work out a lot of techniques to make it happen. In a 2 month period, I only complete 2 pens as I worked all this out.

My point is, if you plan ahead, you can compete if you want to, if you are a pro or not. A pro will limit the time they spend, but with advanced planning, my time is unlimited. A pro may be able to do the same thing in 1/10 the time, but time is not a criteria in any of these contests.

I've done pretty well in the contests, and I don't consider myself exceptionally talented - just persistent. I think if you desire to be competitive, you can be.

 

[Smitty37]

Swap

So pride in winning would not have been enough

Sure, so is pride in losing, which i did, but still, if i would have one first or second place in all the contests i would have ended up with a bunch of the same thing. Just trying to make the prizes different across the board, not limit them

Hey Justin, if you win a prize you don't like you can always work a swap...fun thing to do, I do it often (swap that is, not win prizes I don't like).

 

[markgum]

The BASH was a fun learning experience. I have a wall of mugs from previous events; and each year it gets better.
Triva, - Everyone should participate, Triva masters have just as much chance as I to be on the losing bus because the RNG HATES ME.. Maybe some deeper reading questions taken from the Library would generate the creative thoughts and create more entries in Contests.
Crossword - the first one was easier, unfortunately I was sicker than a dog when the 2nd one was posted; and never completed it. I know it takes time to generate a puzzle and the clues; but maybe have puzzle one posted on day 1 and puzzle 2 posted day 15. With 2 weeks of working on them, us poor people that have to put up with a JOB will beable to put some time on them.
I think the UGLY pen contest has gone to more of a 'gross' pen contest. Maybe just me..
I am thrilled I am NOT a judge for any of the pen contests. The entries were amazing and can only imagine the time it took to evaluate the entries and select the winners.
This event is something I look forward to every year and am thankful for the BASH planners, administrators, coordinators gurus and anyone else that works behind the scenes to make this place and events work.

Keep up the great work all and let's keep making wood chips fly and ink flow from fine crafted writing instruments.

 

[Brooks803]

I am thrilled I am NOT a judge for any of the pen contests. The entries were amazing and can only imagine the time it took to evaluate the entries and select the winners.

You have NO idea! I have pages and pages of notes on each and every entry that was in the casting contests.

It was not easy at all but I do prefer to have the judges make a final decision on who wins. If the contests were required to have a public poll I would suggest it be where the public decideds the top contenders and then the judges decide on a winner. That's if it was a requirement. I know with my contest we looked at EVERYTHING on every single entry. Technical aspects of the cast itself, not to mention the techniques used to make the blank ready for resin in the first place. Then there's artistic qualities and overall asthetics. You can't make the public look at all that, but with a select group of qualified judges you can ensure each piece will be under the microscope. Now with that being said, I'd be more than happy to chat with anyone who entered my contest if they feel they were "pushed under the rug". Like I mentioned earlier, I have pages and pages of notes that I'd be happy to talk about.

Now this only my opinion so it's only worth what you take from it. I had a blast running a contest and knowing alot of the behind the scenes work....I had it easy! Andrew, Mike, Ed, Jeff and many many others deserve a tropical island vacation for the long nights and effort they put in to keep things on track. So my hat's off to you guys!

Since this is a Bday Bash critique thread I guess I'll add one. I would love for each contest to have it's own sub forum (much like the trivia)! With almost a full page of stickys it got super hard to keep track of everything.

 

[Smitty37]

No real suggestions

I had a good time again but unfortunately I don't have any complaints or things to argue with the organizers about (that will make Curtis happy).

Some things might be improved, but for the most part it seemed to me that it was pretty well organized, although maybe next year we can arrange for fewer bidders when the things I want to buy are auctioned off so I can get them at a lower price and sell them later at an obscene profit.

The trivia questions - it depends on the objective - if the objective is to generate more participation to give more folks a shot at winning the easier questions are the way to go. I personally won't spend a lot of time looking for an answer.

I won the first crossword and passed on the second because I did. I think I'd have enjoyed the difficult one.

 

[alankulwicki7]

Regarding the under 50 pens vs. 6 months. I think 6 months is a better choice. One reason is that I know WHEN I made my first pen, but not exactly how many.

I also think 50 pens is not a beginner. Take myself as an example. I just counted my photos. I found photos, or have distinct memory of 43 pens. The first 4 or 5 I ever made didn't get photos, and there are probably a few others.

This means that I am right at the 50 pen mark. - Its a coin toss if I am over or under, yet I took second in the freestyle contest.

Even if I could prove I was under 50, I would not feel right entering a beginner contest.

Since both must be on the honor system, I think 6 months is a better indicator of a beginner.

Not wanting to start a war of words here but my argument to this would be:
Which one of these would you consider a 'Beginner'?
A person who has made 100 pens in their first 6 months

or

A person who has made 20 pens in 2 years

Food for thought....
Doug

 

[hewunch]

I have already submitted some of this to Jeff and Landon and I will share that with the group as well so they can chime in on it so that we can all do our part of making this wonderful website as good as it can be.

The first suggestion I have is concerning the Freestyle contest. "I wonder if you would consider increasing the number of places next year. Honestly, if they keep getting better like they have, I think the membership would agree that 4 places really isn't enough. Either that or have a couple of sub categories. As far as I am concerned, nearly every pen entered this year could earn a prize of some sort."

The second comment is an in general one. I think that if we are going to vote on pens in some way that should look like this.
1. Used the entry form
2. All pens that are in the poll get posted on the same day.
3. If you are going to poll for places either
a. have just the number of pens that you have (places) prizes for
b. have at least at least 2 more pens than you have (places) prizes for
**Allow me to say something about that. So far as I know, only one contest had 5 pens in the poll and 4 prizes. And while it is an honor to be in the running, to be the only one left out of a group is a tough pill IMO. If there were two people that were left out, it would be easier to swallow.
4. It would be great if we had some way of picking not just 1st, but 2nd, 3rd etc.

There have been a bunch of other great suggestions and comments made so far. The one that sticks out the most IMO is the one about staggering the contests through the month. This was a great suggestion!

I for one, truly thank all those who had some part in all the contests. As a judge for one of them, it is TOUGH! And I now have much more respect for the judges than I did before. To those who gave so much time to get things done. You have my heartfelt thanks! I tried hard to win something... ANYTHING. But this wasn't my year. But that didn't keep me from having a boat load of fun!