Is it just me or has this place changed?

[nava1uni]

I think that you cannot access some areas if you are not registered. I personally feel that I came here to IAP because I could read information and after registering I could see pictures. If it had been closed I might not have returned. I would like those interested, or think they might be interested, to be able to access information and bring new ideas so that IAP can continue to thrive and grow.

 

[ldb2000]

I think in some ways this forum has changed in the last few months . We as an active community here on the forum , the people who participate in the group has grown in numbers , but with that growth the overall tolerance level of everyone has gotten better . This thread a year or so ago would have deteriorated to the point of having to be locked . I think this is one of the best changes we have gone through .

 

[Randy_]

I think that you cannot access some areas if you are not registered. I personally feel that I came here to IAP because I could read information and after registering I could see pictures. If it had been closed I might not have returned.....

As I recall. we had this same discussion not too long ago and Jeff even posted a poll to get the feelings of the membership, so we are just rehashing recent history. I don't recall that there was an overwhelming preference; but the majority seemed to prefer a more open forum with only a few restricted areas.

Personally, I think Cindy makes an excellent point in suggesting that a tightly closed forum is very likely to drive folks away and be counterproductive to goal of adding new members and educating those who want to learn more about the craft.

 

[jhs494]

Seems like the good ole days are gone on the forum. While some have always been tight lipped about sharing ideas, many have not and two years ago if someone posted about being stumped on a particular design several would post and help a fellow member out. Now it seems like so many are working on their "secret" blanks and so busy selling them to other members that they are reluctant to help another pen maker out when they try to make one themselves. Have we stopped being a band of kindred souls with common goals and interests sharing thoughts and ideas, seeing each other as perspective customers instead?

I could not agree more.

 

[babyblues]

Seems like the good ole days are gone on the forum. While some have always been tight lipped about sharing ideas, many have not and two years ago if someone posted about being stumped on a particular design several would post and help a fellow member out. Now it seems like so many are working on their "secret" blanks and so busy selling them to other members that they are reluctant to help another pen maker out when they try to make one themselves. Have we stopped being a band of kindred souls with common goals and interests sharing thoughts and ideas, seeing each other as perspective customers instead?

I was reading over this again and thought of something else. Most of the requests for help that I have seen here of late have been just asking "How did you do that?" or "Care to tell us how to do that?" instead of "I've been working on this for a week and can't figure this part of it out or that part of it out." If someone is stumped, that means they've tried and need a little help to get over the hump. I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to just divulge the entire process to someone who hasn't even taken at least a couple minutes to puzzle it out. To me (and this may just be me but...) when there's no effort to at least try first, there's only fleeting interest. Why should any of the grizzled veterans of this forum waste their time just to satisfy some momentary curiosity? If someone is really wanting to learn and better their skills, they're going to be willing to give it an effort. Time can be in short supply, I understand that, but at least use the time we do have to learn by doing.

Part of it might be a money issue. I can understand someone not wanting to buy the equipment to cast worthless wood blanks with Alumilite and then waste the first half gallon or so trying to figure it all out on their own. We all don't have that kind of money to throw at this hobby. However, the only way we're going to actually learn how to do it is to...um...DO IT!!!

 

[rjwolfe3]

Keep in mind that just because someone asks, how did you do that, it may just be a rhetorical question. Sort of asking out loud without really wanting an answer. I have done that myself.

 

[HawksFeather]

Most of my questions have been in the Finish threads and I have gotten helpful replies. I guess I know enough not to request the "secret" formula for anyone's success. If they want to share it they will and if they do it won't be a "secret" formula any longer. That being said, I know that there are people "out there" that will request the "secret" formula and don't see any reason that they should not be given it - after all, it looks great and they deserve to have it without any work or time invested. That just isn't me.

Being a newbie to the pen making arena I really don't know enough to help many of the questions asked. At the same time if it is a topic that I know a little about I will try to help. What bothers me more is when a person posts that they would like to know about the best way to use a __________ (fill in the blank) type of finish and someone posts that you shouldn't be using "that" type of finish and this is the one that you should use - followed by what they like. I don't have a problem if they give the person the answer on how to use _______ as a finish and then state the problems that they have with that finish (doesn't wear well, tends to chip, etc.) but try to answer the question.

It is nice to have active members, but who decides what active is? Is it a person like me, who has been a member for almost four years and has 85 posts - mostly posted in Finish and Other Things We Make or should it be restricted to active Pen Makers? Do you remain active by logging in or by participating? There will always be lurkers in any forum that has the reputation that IAP does. Not everyone likes to post, but they like to learn. If you require a certain number of posts to remain active expect to read things like "looks good" and "nice pen" each count but outside of stroking an ego, don't really mean much and probably should not "count". It also becomes a nightmare for the administration and moderators of the forum who will be spending all of their time reviewing quality of content to see if the post would qualify or not.

Just my thoughts,

Jerry

 

[jyreene]

I have been given a lot of help on this site. I still have several different techniques to try out I just have to find the time since I still don't have my own shop yet and won't for another 6 months. The few problems I have encountered I do ask for help if I can't see a way around it or if it's a particularly expensive blank. Of course I haven't been using this forum for years so you could be right. I do kind of agree with Hank Lee and skiprat (our resident dumpster diver) that certain things should be reserved for members but I also disagree on some aspects because it is the helpful advice I found on here when I got started that had me convinced to sign up. So while advanced techniques and advice should be for active members the everyday and basics should still be available. Just my 2 bits worth.

 

[wolftat]

I was reading over this again and thought of something else. Most of the requests for help that I have seen here of late have been just asking "How did you do that?" or "Care to tell us how to do that?" instead of "I've been working on this for a week and can't figure this part of it out or that part of it out." If someone is stumped, that means they've tried and need a little help to get over the hump. I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to just divulge the entire process to someone who hasn't even taken at least a couple minutes to puzzle it out. To me (and this may just be me but...) when there's no effort to at least try first, there's only fleeting interest. Why should any of the grizzled veterans of this forum waste their time just to satisfy some momentary curiosity? If someone is really wanting to learn and better their skills, they're going to be willing to give it an effort. Time can be in short supply, I understand that, but at least use the time we do have to learn by doing.

Part of it might be a money issue. I can understand someone not wanting to buy the equipment to cast worthless wood blanks with Alumilite and then waste the first half gallon or so trying to figure it all out on their own. We all don't have that kind of money to throw at this hobby. However, the only way we're going to actually learn how to do it is to...um...DO IT!!!

I could not agree more.

 

[wolftat]

I have been given a lot of help on this site. I still have several different techniques to try out I just have to find the time since I still don't have my own shop yet and won't for another 6 months. The few problems I have encountered I do ask for help if I can't see a way around it or if it's a particularly expensive blank. Of course I haven't been using this forum for years so you could be right. I do kind of agree with Hank Lee and skiprat (our resident dumpster diver) that certain things should be reserved for members but I also disagree on some aspects because it is the helpful advice I found on here when I got started that had me convinced to sign up. So while advanced techniques and advice should be for active members the everyday and basics should still be available. Just my 2 bits worth.

That makes sense, I don't want the whole forum closed, it would keep everybody away. I would like to see an area where we can post an idea that only active members acan see and voice an opinion on. I know this would exclude some very good people that have some great ideas to share, but in due time, they will be in that section sharing. Patience and deication is what should get members into the area, maybe it is an area that should be earned.

Now that I have read this over, I realize that we already have this area in the forum. And I am planning to use it for this purpose.

 

[DurocShark]

I realize that we already have this area in the forum. And I am planning to use it for this purpose.

We do?

 

[HSTurning]

Ok I'm in. Here is my take.

Hi I'm Matt and I was a lurker.:biggrin:
I found the site sometime in late 2006 maybe early 2007 when I was looking into something having to do with flat work (no idea what or how this site came up). At the time I never thought I would get into turning anything as a hobby. I had done some turning in school but that was 15+ years ago. I seen a demo at the local wood working store in March 2008 and walked out with a Jet mini. I looked at this site and gained info on many aspects of turning these pens of are's into quality writing instraments. I am not to that level yet.:worship: I am an apprentice, I hope to be a craftsmen and will never consider myself a master. I only joined in December 2008 and if I remember correctly it was for the local chapter. Otherwise I may still be lurking. I like privacy so I dont join forum or sign up for most on-line sites. Joining the site and becoming active has been a great experience and the helpfulness of are members is above that I see on any other site I lurk on.

360 HB
IMO
This is a time consuming blank that has taken a lot of time for the people that created it and have figured it out. I think that it should be kept for the people that put in the time. We have all seen many of the ideas of the members here end up being sold by the large companies. From the HF transfer punch kit to the Circuit Board blanks). These are easy to figure out and put into production. The 360HB will end up on some of if not all the big company sites for sale in time but i say let the people that know how to do it make what they can on them before then. If a big company wants it they only need to have a AutoCAD company or someone in house sit down and figure out a way that they can reproduce in mass quantities. Let them pay for it and lets not just hand it to them.

 

[wolftat]

We do?

Yes we do, it is an invitation only Social Group. I started one and I am the only member because I am feeling anti-social, and I am at work and can't concentrate on this stuff today.

 

[DurocShark]

You soche!!!!

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Back in '05 and '06 I was pretty active.

Today I'm mostly a lurker, but every now and then I throw in my 2¢.

Things haven't changed that much since back then.

The one thing I do notice is the higher level of craftsmanship in turning pens.

 

[HSTurning]

I always considered a lurker the people the just read/check a site and never join. If i stopped posting and only read the pages I wouldn't consider myself a lurker. But thats me.

 

[chriselle]

I agree with what George is concerned about but just want to point out that I've noticed that some of the behavior George eludes to is from good ole boys from the good ole days.......just recalling a "whatever" moment a while back.

Jokingly, what info was there really to share in the good ole days?? ....How to get Shellawax to last longer than two weeks?

 

[NewLondon88]

....How to get Shellawax to last longer than two weeks?

ooh ooh !! I know this one!

um ... don't touch it for three weeks? :tongue:

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Jokingly, what info was there really to share in the good ole days?? ....How to get Shellawax to last longer than two weeks?

Lets See...
How to make the first Celtic cross pen.
Or the first pen with a wooden center band.
And even a wood finial.

Or my favorite "With enough CA you can turn even a fart"

That was cutting edge back in the day.
:biggrin:

 

[Moosewatcher]

I'm afraid I'm really at a disadvantage here because I've never seen this Herringbone 360 that sparked all this posting.

If someone would kindly post a pic of their Herringbone 360, I'll reciprocate by posting a pic of my newest pen, when I get it done, the Flounder 180.

Ken

 

[GouletPens]

It's not so much that the people on here have changed I think, but the content. As techniques have become more complicated and more time and money consuming, people are a bit less likely to just 'give it all away'. The 360 Herringbone is complicated so the ones who know it don't want to spill the beans unless someone has really put forth the effort to figure it out for themselves. I can appreciate that. But honestly, I saw the Herringbone 360 in a Faber-Castelle pen in last year's Paradise Pen catalogue so unless you came up with it before then you don't really have anything to protect because it's not 'your design'. I think we sometimes like to hoard information because of pride (I know I'm guilty of that sometimes, not as much as I used to be), but really it doesn't matter. We're a smart bunch of people here and if you post a pen, chances are in a week or two SOMEONE will figure out how you did it. DaVinci didn't make incredible paintings because he kept from other people how you mix paint and strentch canvas....he did something with it that no one else was CAPABLE of doing. I've seen some amazing pens on here that I couldn't do even if I knew exactly how. THAT is impressive to me, not something I see that no one is willing to share. Now it's different if your livelyhood depends on it, but if that's the case what the heck are you doing posting it on here in the first place? Keep it to yourself if you're not willing to share.

 

[greggas]

I was hooked by the turning bug about a year and a half ago. As I visit all of your sites, join associations and attend symposiums I have been thrilled by the openness and eagerness of those who have much , much more experience in this to share their knowledge. Coming from the Architecture / Building industry after 25 years this willingness to share is a complete 180 from what I am used to. The amount of info shared by all of you is tremendous and I suspect that as the popularity of turning has grown ( which I suspect is zooming) perhaps the influx of folks from other walks of life are just not as open as the early turners, or perhaps just do not have enough experience yet and are staying quiet until they have something to add.

My limited experience in the turning world has taught me to be more giving of my experience and wisdom to others that I encounter....keep up the good work!

 

[leehljp]

. . .
My limited experience in the turning world has taught me to be more giving of my experience and wisdom to others that I encounter....keep up the good work!

Welcome Greg! I noticed this was your first post!

 

[greggas]

Thanks Hank;

Nice wood in Japan. I recall seeing photos of a basement shop with a band saw called Big Blue in Japan...was that you?

 

[TellicoTurning]

I think things are changing here... we are an evolving society and this mini-society is also evolving... I don't see any negative changes, but as membership waxes and wanes, I see new people with new ideas coming on board, older members either leaving or posting less... I still see the sharing of lots of information here and enjoy coming in to look and read the posts. It's still one of my favorite two forums that I visit every day.

 

[leehljp]

Thanks Hank;

Nice wood in Japan. I recall seeing photos of a basement shop with a band saw called Big Blue in Japan...was that you?

That wasn't me. I wouldn't mind if it was though! My shop is barely big enough to turn around good. :wink:

 

[wolftat]

I'm afraid I'm really at a disadvantage here because I've never seen this Herringbone 360 that sparked all this posting.

If someone would kindly post a pic of their Herringbone 360, I'll reciprocate by posting a pic of my newest pen, when I get it done, the Flounder 180.

Ken

Here is a link to one I posted recently.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48015

 

[TribalRR]

... Keep it to yourself if you're not willing to share.

Guess that makes since, okay...

 

[yarydoc]

Hello, my name is Ray and I am a lurker. I joined IAP June 9th 2008 and this will be post # 33. I have answered any question that I thought I could be of help with and all of my questions have been answered. I visit IAP daily to see what great things everyone has made and the problems that we all seem to have. This is a hobby for me. I will never make the money back on the tools and supplies that I am buying or have already bought. I am not trying to steal your ideas to make money off of your work. I am only trying to get better at my pen turning. When I joined I missed the part where I had to be an active member so would you please send me the link to this. If my lurking is a problem I ask that some of the ones in charge to let me know and I will lurk no more.

Thanks, Ray

 

[arioux]

The following paragraph is taken from a news letter i receive on a regular basis. Those that receive it will recognize where it is from. They make a little publicity about our site. By reading it, i think they really point out what the perception of this forum is and what brings people in. I specially like the last sentence.



You have seen some very impressive pens out there and have wondered where folks get such great ideas from. Check out the International Association of Pen Turners, otherwise known as the IAP. The link to this wonderful pen turning forum is http://www.penturners.org. It will take you a few minutes of your time and a very little bit of inconsequential personal information such as your name and the general whereabouts of where you live, and you can have access to a virtual treasure trove of pen turning information.

The forum has been around for about five years and has almost 8000 members worldwide and the membership is growing all the time. There are old time turners and beginners alike. Best of all, every opinion counts and everyone wants to hear what you have to say. You really don't have to input anything, some folks, like me, just like to sit back and listen (read), look at pictures of some very impressive work, and just take things in.

If you ever have a question about anything related to pen turning, just ask. I can guarantee you that you will get back more information than you could ever possibly imagine in a very short time. I think there are folks perched out there just waiting for someone to ask a question. If it is proprietary information which you seek then you may be out of luck and responded to with something like "boy would we all like to know that". Believe it or not, there are some folks out there who think that the knowledge of how to turn a basic pen is proprietary information to them. Luckily though there are not so many of those folks on the IAP.

 

[ldb2000]

Hello, my name is Ray and I am a lurker. I joined IAP June 9th 2008 and this will be post # 33. I have answered any question that I thought I could be of help with and all of my questions have been answered. I visit IAP daily to see what great things everyone has made and the problems that we all seem to have. This is a hobby for me. I will never make the money back on the tools and supplies that I am buying or have already bought. I am not trying to steal your ideas to make money off of your work. I am only trying to get better at my pen turning. When I joined I missed the part where I had to be an active member so would you please send me the link to this. If my lurking is a problem I ask that some of the ones in charge to let me know and I will lurk no more.

Thanks, Ray

Ray , I think you may have gotten a wrong impression of us . We have no problem with you or anyone else who lurks out there . We would love for all the lurkers to join in the fun but it is in no way mandatory . We all have been lurkers around here at one point or another but most of us finally joined in . If you wish to lurk then by all means please continue , it's your loss . This place is more then just a forum to allot of us , it's an extended family , albeit a sometimes dysfunctional family but when you consider the diversity that is to be expected . By not joining in you are depriving yourself of the friendships that we have come to enjoy here . If we were really worried that you would steal our ideas and sell them the forum would not be posting the information in the first place . Getting the secrets that we are all hiding is very hard , all you have to do is ask . While you may not get a tutorial about how to make a HB360 blank , if you make an attempt at doing it yourself and get stuck on a problem all you have to do is ask Neil and I know he would be more then willing to help you , but you have to be willing to at least try to figure it out for yourself first . All I know for sure is that you won't get any help if all you do is lurk and never join in .

 

[ronhampton]

i think that i've pretty much figured the 360 out! i made one this week. i need to work on accuracy as it is pretty sloppy,but,i'm getting there!:biggrin:---ron---

 

[greeneyedblackcat]

As to the sharing thing, I share everything EXCEPT my Super Secret July "casing contest" entry pen :biggrin:

 

[Rollerbob]

As to the sharing thing, I share everything EXCEPT my Super Secret July "casing contest" entry pen :biggrin:

And just when is that going to happen?

 

[greeneyedblackcat]

And just when is that going to happen?

LOL Bob, If I had to guess I would say you may see it sometime between now and the 31st :biggrin: I will share it when it becomes a reality . :cat:

 

[MesquiteMan]

If my lurking is a problem I ask that some of the ones in charge to let me know and I will lurk no more.

Thanks, Ray

You are more than welcome to lurk here at IAP all you want. We would love to have your active participation but it is certainly not mandatory.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator

 

[rjwolfe3]

Maybe I am confused on the definition of a lurker. I always assumed that once you started making posts you could no longer be considered a lurker but maybe I am wrong. To me a "lurker" is someone on the outside looking in. They are someone who doesn't post at all. Can someone clarify this?

 

[GouletPens]

Maybe I am confused on the definition of a lurker. I always assumed that once you started making posts you could no longer be considered a lurker but maybe I am wrong. To me a "lurker" is someone on the outside looking in. They are someone who doesn't post at all. Can someone clarify this?

I'd agree with this.....if you post, you're a member. You're a lurker if you just read the posts but don't have an account or anything. I do that for several auto repair sites when I have a problem with my car, because I only need to know a specific detail about that one problem, but that's kinda different than IAP. I have no problem with lurkers, but I would suggest they become more involved b/c I've learned so much more since I've been an active poster than I think I ever would have lurking. Once you have some 'credibility' with members, you can get your questions answered very quickly and get some really great advice. You also learn who's blowing smoke and who's legit (not that we have any smoke-blowers here, eh?:wink.

 

[NewLondon88]

why .. whatever do you mean?

 

[wudnhed]

Originally Posted by Texatdurango
Seems like the good ole days are gone on the forum. While some have always been tight lipped about sharing ideas, many have not and two years ago if someone posted about being stumped on a particular design several would post and help a fellow member out. Now it seems like so many are working on their "secret" blanks and so busy selling them to other members that they are reluctant to help another pen maker out when they try to make one themselves. Have we stopped being a band of kindred souls with common goals and interests sharing thoughts and ideas, seeing each other as perspective customers instead?

I could not agree more.

It could also be a little competition. Since the forum has grown so much and there are alot more people making pens I'm sure some feel they need a little "edge" so their pens are more unique. In this era of internet shopping and websites it's easy to buy from other cities and countries so I can understand that person's protectiveness of their design. I can also understand wanting to know how it's done too.