Dust Collector

[darthintel]

Hello All!
I purchased a dust collection system from Rockler yesterday which are pictured below. I mounted the wall mount unit under my work bench, ran the tubing into a plastic container with a air tight lid ( not round ), ports directed at the walls of the container, and lastly ran the tubing to the hood mounted on the lathe.
I ran the system and turned an Acrylic blank - all chips and streamers ...everything was sucked up into the vac system - worked very well.
But...yes there's a BUT.....I looked into the plastic container that's supposed to catch the large chips and it was EMPTY! All the shavings went into the 5 micron dust bag. Why?

1. Could it be that I need a cylindrical chip barrel to create a vortex to drop the chips?
2. Maybe my plastic container is too small?
3. I directed the ports at the outside walls of the container, do they need to be rotated to create a vortex?

Any help would be appreciated!

Rick

 

[gbpens]

Interesting idea. I doubt if the chips and ribbons are heavy enough to "fall" to the bottom of the square container, the suction is just to great. If the cfm were to be reduced it might work, but then you would be defeating the purpose of a vacuum system.

 

[PTsideshow]

You probably are on to something, about the round container. Since I have only seen round vortex chambers no matter what their proposes are. I have the dust deputy hooked to my big rigid shop vac and it works well and so far nothing has made it thru to the vacuum canister. I just purchased a 13 gallon dust collector form HF changed the casters on it since I had a heavy duty set of 3.5" ones. Haven't used it much yet but it appears to being doing the job on the saw dust.

mounted on top of the vac. It is a cone shaped container that dumps into a 5 gal bucket for easy emptying.

Hose from vac to cyclone unit

Mine goes into the top and the suction hose to the pick up is in from the top side.
Here is their great explanation it may help sort out your problem, your idea will having me try putting it between the dC and dust port and see how mine works.

 

[The Penguin]

my guess is your plastic container is too small.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

My guess is the same:
Container too small, and not round, so there's no 'cyclone' of air to drop the heavy particles to the bottom.

 

[nava1uni]

I believe that you need a round container to create a venturi effect. That is what causes the larger pieces to drop to the bottom. Not only do you need a round container you need the tubes that go into the container to have an elbow that faces the sides. The air goes through the tubes, hits the sides and creates the venturi or cyclone effect. If you are near a Rockler or Woodcraft go and look at the inside of their vortex or lid that goes onto a garbage can and you will see what I mean.

 

[darthintel]

I believe that you need a round container to create a venturi effect. That is what causes the larger pieces to drop to the bottom. Not only do you need a round container you need the tubes that go into the container to have an elbow that faces the sides. The air goes through the tubes, hits the sides and creates the venturi or cyclone effect. If you are near a Rockler or Woodcraft go and look at the inside of their vortex or lid that goes onto a garbage can and you will see what I mean.

I have the tubes that are mounted through the lid and they do have the elbows and are pointed to the sides of the container. (from Rockler) Rockler doesn't sell the round chip canisters, but they have one on display.

I will look into getting a round container or a vortex separator and mentioned above.

 

[MesquiteMan]

PLEASE also consider upgrading your bag. 5 Micron bags are not nearly fine enough got get the stuff that is bad for you. Using a 5 micron bag is like having a big huge dust pump constantly pumping the dangerous stuff back into the air, keeping it airborne so you can breath it easier.

 

[bradh]

my guess is your plastic container is too small.

+1. The chips need time to fall. The volume of the container compared to the pipe size is not big enough. There will be little drop in air speed within the container, so very few chips will drop out.
Aiming the pipes at the wall or creating a vortex, will cause the chips to hit the wall and slow and this helps the chips drop out too.

 

[ossaguy]

I have the same exact unit that you have,and they told me it needs at least a 30 gallon round container for it to work right.I'm wondering if there is enough room under the workbench for it to fit,and it looks like the bag gets bent even.A redesign might be needed.

I have the same exact seup from Rockler,and I had posted before how I follwed their suggestion and made a seperator using a conrete form tube from Home Depot,and I gotta say that it works great.Since then I got their quick-connect 4 inch tube fittings so it's like a 10 second setup time to assemble it.They work really slick!

But that design is too tall to fit under a bench.

I'm hoping someone has a tip on a 1 micron bag thaat fits this unit.It comes with a 30,and I too have the 5,but agree that it's not enough.I wonder if the performance would suffer with the 1 micron bag?

Here's how mine turned out if you want to see.It's on Page 5 of my photobucket

Pictures by ossaguy - Photobucket


Take care,
Steve

 

[darthintel]

Thanks everyone for the responses!
I bought the Dust Deputy today and also mounted the hood to the lathe using wood and rare earth magnets. I don't have the room under the bench for the 30 gal container, so this will have to do for now.

I turned a pen and the dust deputy caught all the chips.
I'll consider a finer micron bag to catch the dust.

 

[darthintel]

Questions about chip / dust collection:

Are chip collection containers really needed If I empty the bag regularly? I'll use a 1 micron bag.
The reason I ask is it seems like I'm not getting the same flow after I added the 4" to 2.2" reducer ( makes sense ) to add a cyclone collection system. It seems to work well, but I'm worried about the increased load on the blower with this restriction. Is this "worry" warranted?

I know a 30 gal fiber barrel would be ideal, but I don't have room for it as is.

Responses always appreciated!

Ones health is priority.

 

[PTsideshow]

As close as your set up is, it shouldn't be a problem, my dust collector and the same style from other sellers comes with a 4" to 2½" reducer that fits at the blower housing.
And add in the length of hoses and connections, it all add ups to a increase in resistance and a decrease in sucking power!
Your blower fan design should be able to handle most of the average sized chips. Unless you are turning something that the chip have no give, cleaning the housing and fan should work.

Since I have limited space and layout in the basement, I chose the shop vac and dust deputy so I can get it close to the point of pick up. In splitting the hose with a wye fitting, I lost some suction at the collection points. That is why I decided to go with the standard DC With the new to me dust collector 13 gallon form HF I am keeping the the hose as short as possible, and using the hose fittings from woodcraft. I can change from the 2½"to 4"hoses depending on the machine I'm using.

The reasoning about using PVC sewer and drain pipe as conductors in a shop rather than hose, are two fold. Relatively smooth interior bore of the pipe and solid air tight seals @ joints, smoother transitions at the joints.

Having been a facilities manager of school building with "WHOLE BUILDING" vacuum systems old and new ones, along with dust and fume extraction systems. I can tell you that:
1 Smoother piping (inside)
2 Straight, fewest opening(and every one must have a tight fitting gate even permanent connected machines)
3 Fewest number of elbows/turns possible
4 Trunk lines larger dia than feed ling lines
5 Largest CFM you can afford.
6 Also for permanent PVC systems, a good working grounding system (meaning that you have continuity from every piece of equipment to ground location.
7 Ease of cleaning out not only the waste material, but the blower housing.

A lot of whole building vacuum systems are poorly designed and cheaply installed, causing them to be of limited usefulness, and wasted money. As they stop using them, quickly.
:clown:

 

[ossaguy]

I wish Oneida would make a 4 inch Dust Deputy,they could call it " Big Daddy Dust Deputy",something like that.I think that it would sell.

Sure would make things a lot easier!

Steve

 

[MesquiteMan]

The 2.2" reducer will certainly cut your flow significantly. However, this will not hurt your blower, just your performance. If I put an amp clamp on my 5 hp cyclone motor and turn it on with all the blast gates closed, the amp draw is much lower than with a blast gate open. Lower amps equals less strain on the motor. A dust collector motor unable to draw any air does not hurt it at all.

 

[darthintel]

I wish Oneida would make a 4 inch Dust Deputy,they could call it " Big Daddy Dust Deputy",something like that.I think that it would sell.

Sure would make things a lot easier!

Steve

Oneida DOES make a 4 inch Dust Deputy ...it's called the Super Dust Deputy ...it's 24" tall and costs $219 and would need reducers on both ends to 4" .


http://http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD002030&CatId={17F46883-40BB-471E-982F-E5F28583241B}

 

[ossaguy]

I wish I would've known that way back when.

I should have done a better job of researching.Thanks for the info!


Steve

 

[Jim Burr]

I'm gonna put up the same attitude here as I do elsewhere...Dust coverage is fine, fans are fine...if you aren't wearing something; Trend, Triton, 3M...why don't you care? Put something on and give your family a dad...face it...the crap we turn is hazardous. Move on and protect yourself!!!! I'll post a pic in a bit that was sucked up by my Trend as opposed to in my lungs. After cancer in my lung last March and my job...don't mess with it, just do it. Thank God if you are offended.
No $$ from Trend, just use and believe in the product...there are others.

 

[76winger]

From what I've read on dust collection systems, I'm with the others in believing you need a larger cylindrical cyclone chamber to get the correct results now that you have a higher capacity dust collector. what you have pictured was designed for a shop-vac type of system, not a dust collector.

 

[darthintel]

I removed the cyclone chip collector...wow what a difference at the lathe!
I will just empty the bag every week.

 

[flippedcracker]

maybe you could do a mini thien baffle to fit.

The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle

checkout the forums for examples.

 

[darthintel]

maybe you could do a mini thien baffle to fit.

The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle

checkout the forums for examples.

Well...I have the buckets and the 4" ports already....I will make the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle as an experiment....looks easy enough.
I love to run experiments to make things better!

Thanks !

 

[Lenny]

I removed the cyclone chip collector...wow what a difference at the lathe!
I will just empty the bag every week.

Rick, that's pretty much what I decided too.

What I have is a cyclone lid to fit on a 30 gal trash can. I probably could work on it and get it to perform better by adding another elbow and baffles but I just decided it was easier to just to do without it.
With only my lathe connected to my system I SELDOM have to dump the bag. In fact I only do it because I'm going to take the top bag off for cleaning and figure I might as well empty the bottom one at the same time.