Alumilite Double casting?
- Thread starter Padre
- Start date
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
It should work fine.
louie
Member
Looks good so far. Looking forward to the finished product.
workinforwood
Member
From what I see, I'm going to have to say no sir, that's not going to work too well. In theory, you are close, but if that is what I think it is, it's flawed. Go to my website and click on the magazine article section, then click on the article for fret cast pens. That will put you more in the right direction. The main problem I see here is layout. The second problem is your bond support. Alumilite sticks to itself, but it does not bond to itself. It will seem like it is bonded, but when you drill it, it is very easy to break that bond because it isn't really bonded, just stuck. With small images placed inside and poured over, the stuck is good enough, but with something of this size, stuck might not be good enough. In a few months there will be an actual article out about how I cut my 360 flames in alumilite. It involves proper layout and the design is way different than what you have there..the design puts the alumilite into a situation where stuck is good enough. It's like the difference between using wood glue to glue wood end to end or side to side. We know that wood glued side to side is bonded, adn wood glued end to end is only stuck together meaning it is easy to break it apart.
As far as rejection..there will be no rejection when you pour over it. You are going to have a unique blank with what you have made there. Make sure you pour over the blank, not just level with it, but a good 1/8" over the top of what you have cut. Otherwise the pressure will push down into the cuts and you will have big voids. Just like what you experience in the corners of a square mold, that will also happen into those cuts if they are not over poured. When you drill the blank, be extra careful. If you build up too much debris inside the hole, it will pop the blank apart at the cut seams. Once you get it drilled and tubed, you should be in good shape. Spin the blank mostly to size then rub your fingers over the seams. If any of them are not completely flush, that means the seam has broke free. Use thin CA and simply pour it over to solidify the seam, then finish spinning to size and you will be successful.
As far as rejection..there will be no rejection when you pour over it. You are going to have a unique blank with what you have made there. Make sure you pour over the blank, not just level with it, but a good 1/8" over the top of what you have cut. Otherwise the pressure will push down into the cuts and you will have big voids. Just like what you experience in the corners of a square mold, that will also happen into those cuts if they are not over poured. When you drill the blank, be extra careful. If you build up too much debris inside the hole, it will pop the blank apart at the cut seams. Once you get it drilled and tubed, you should be in good shape. Spin the blank mostly to size then rub your fingers over the seams. If any of them are not completely flush, that means the seam has broke free. Use thin CA and simply pour it over to solidify the seam, then finish spinning to size and you will be successful.
Padre
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,841
Jeff, your site is fantastic. I've printed out two sets of articles so far. One note though: your November 2009 and January 2010 downloads both point to the same .pdf.
I do have some questions, and thought I'd ask them here so others could benefit from your expertise.
1. Let's say I wanted to make a black pen blank with a white skull in it, the skull to look like the attachment. Couldn't I make a clay form, pour in white alumilite and make a miniature skull?
2. Make a clay/rubber mold that is 5" by 3/4 square, put the little white skull in it and then pour pure black alumilite around it? Let it harden, and turn it and I would have a black pen with the Willie G skull in it?
I do have some questions, and thought I'd ask them here so others could benefit from your expertise.
1. Let's say I wanted to make a black pen blank with a white skull in it, the skull to look like the attachment. Couldn't I make a clay form, pour in white alumilite and make a miniature skull?
2. Make a clay/rubber mold that is 5" by 3/4 square, put the little white skull in it and then pour pure black alumilite around it? Let it harden, and turn it and I would have a black pen with the Willie G skull in it?
Attachments
workinforwood
Member
Thanks for letting me know that was linked wrong, it is now fixed.
I do not know the absolute answer to your question, but I think not. I was talking to Gary Nichols a few days ago and he was telling me about his attempts to cast clay with PR. he said that the heat of the PR turned the clay into mud. I know that Alumilite also get really hot, and so I would bet that it will have the same effect and basically melt your mold. If it was to work though, then I still think it is a bad idea. The sides of the skull will be too smooth if made in a mold. You need some roughness in order for the alumilite to stick to itself at all. Like I said, it will stick but sticking in not the same as bonding. It sticks good enough that you can drill it with care and once the tube is glued in, the tube holds it all together and it won't fall apart and you won't have any seams because it is cast together nice and tight. If alumilite is super smooth, then it won't even hardly stick to itself. Once small wack will seperate it with ease. Besides all that, it would be far more productive to simply cut the skull out with the scrollsaw. Although the artilces may not be exactly what you are making, the principles and theories are all the same. A fat pen does not have that much meat typically. Therefore the image should not be wider than the tube. Exceptions always exist of course, such as a cigar pen, but you must be aware that the cigar has a taper up top, so if the image is 1/2" wide, it needs to be placed down by the centerband. It is not difficult to cut a skull like that, I have cut many of them, although not quite that design, they are very similar. You will need to reduce the size of that skull and then you will need to scrunch the sides in a bit. Remember..as the pen turns, the sides will widen out because of the curve of the pen the image becomes wider, so you need to alter the design making it skinnier than you desire it to actually be. The skull should be 3/8 to 1/2" thick and you will pour your resin over the skull to be twice or more as thick. After the blank is cut out, you will locate the center of the skull by simply measuring the width of the skull and transfering that location to the top of the blank. Then you will measure down 3/8-1/2 depending on how thick the skull is and that is where you drill. The idea is that the drill bit drops right down the center behind the skull, so the bit removes 50% skull and 50% blank. If the skull was too wide, then you would turn the sides of the skull away...like what you will do with that flame design you created. The flames are wider than the pen. You have to keep your flames so they stay within the pen, so if it was a JR pen, the flames are 3/8 wide for the pen and if they go on the cap they are 1/2" wide.
Eventually over the next few months, there will be an article on how I cut 360 flames. It's not difficult to do at all. Once you see it, like everything else, it's just a "duh, why didn't I think of that?" moment.
For your scroll saw, you should use the largest blade possible for the project at hand. When I cut little things like 1/2" wide skulls with eyes and nose and mouth, that is all done with a #5 polar skip tooth blade. The saw speed should be relatively slow, not super fast. Let the blade cut. Think about using a hacksaw on a piece of metal. Would you cut through faster at high speed or slow speed? At high speed the teeth will just skip over the metal, they need to go slower so they can bite in and then clear out. You also need to turn the material, not the blade. This is why you have uneven cuts in your flames. Improper turning technique is why you are cutting an arc as you move..hard to explain..but I see the flames you cut..I can see the top and the bottom of the "board" and well lets say just say the width between flames is 1/4 on top but only 1/8 on the bottom and they should be uniform, but they are not because the blade is bowing as you are making your turns. Because you cut too fast, too aggresive, maybe too small a blade I dont know your blades, and probably not enough tension too. Slower with more tension and proper technique will allow you more control. Slow way down when you get to the ends of your cuts up in the points..I see your blade plung into the plastic and the next cut up does not meet with it. In otherwords your flames don't come to a perfect stopped point. Reminds me of when I first started scrolling! We probably all scrolled like that at one time..it takes some practice, like sewing.:biggrin:
Just like in the article, you should use a piece of scrap plywood, lay it out properly and glue your work to that, so you always know where to cut the blanks out. In the article/s I use plywood sides, like building boxes. I do not do that anymore. I still use a piece of plywood for the bottom, but the sides are a plastic frame made from cutting boards. So every bottom piece I cut the same to fit the frame. The frame simply screws together. I place the wood into the frame, screw the frame together, then use masking tap across the bottom so nothing can leak. It's just more economical and faster this way because there is less wood waste and no time spent building boxes.
Eventually there will also be an article for building a table for your scrollsaw. To cut tiny pieces, you need a false table. This is for safety and so you don't loose what you cut.
I do not know the absolute answer to your question, but I think not. I was talking to Gary Nichols a few days ago and he was telling me about his attempts to cast clay with PR. he said that the heat of the PR turned the clay into mud. I know that Alumilite also get really hot, and so I would bet that it will have the same effect and basically melt your mold. If it was to work though, then I still think it is a bad idea. The sides of the skull will be too smooth if made in a mold. You need some roughness in order for the alumilite to stick to itself at all. Like I said, it will stick but sticking in not the same as bonding. It sticks good enough that you can drill it with care and once the tube is glued in, the tube holds it all together and it won't fall apart and you won't have any seams because it is cast together nice and tight. If alumilite is super smooth, then it won't even hardly stick to itself. Once small wack will seperate it with ease. Besides all that, it would be far more productive to simply cut the skull out with the scrollsaw. Although the artilces may not be exactly what you are making, the principles and theories are all the same. A fat pen does not have that much meat typically. Therefore the image should not be wider than the tube. Exceptions always exist of course, such as a cigar pen, but you must be aware that the cigar has a taper up top, so if the image is 1/2" wide, it needs to be placed down by the centerband. It is not difficult to cut a skull like that, I have cut many of them, although not quite that design, they are very similar. You will need to reduce the size of that skull and then you will need to scrunch the sides in a bit. Remember..as the pen turns, the sides will widen out because of the curve of the pen the image becomes wider, so you need to alter the design making it skinnier than you desire it to actually be. The skull should be 3/8 to 1/2" thick and you will pour your resin over the skull to be twice or more as thick. After the blank is cut out, you will locate the center of the skull by simply measuring the width of the skull and transfering that location to the top of the blank. Then you will measure down 3/8-1/2 depending on how thick the skull is and that is where you drill. The idea is that the drill bit drops right down the center behind the skull, so the bit removes 50% skull and 50% blank. If the skull was too wide, then you would turn the sides of the skull away...like what you will do with that flame design you created. The flames are wider than the pen. You have to keep your flames so they stay within the pen, so if it was a JR pen, the flames are 3/8 wide for the pen and if they go on the cap they are 1/2" wide.
Eventually over the next few months, there will be an article on how I cut 360 flames. It's not difficult to do at all. Once you see it, like everything else, it's just a "duh, why didn't I think of that?" moment.
For your scroll saw, you should use the largest blade possible for the project at hand. When I cut little things like 1/2" wide skulls with eyes and nose and mouth, that is all done with a #5 polar skip tooth blade. The saw speed should be relatively slow, not super fast. Let the blade cut. Think about using a hacksaw on a piece of metal. Would you cut through faster at high speed or slow speed? At high speed the teeth will just skip over the metal, they need to go slower so they can bite in and then clear out. You also need to turn the material, not the blade. This is why you have uneven cuts in your flames. Improper turning technique is why you are cutting an arc as you move..hard to explain..but I see the flames you cut..I can see the top and the bottom of the "board" and well lets say just say the width between flames is 1/4 on top but only 1/8 on the bottom and they should be uniform, but they are not because the blade is bowing as you are making your turns. Because you cut too fast, too aggresive, maybe too small a blade I dont know your blades, and probably not enough tension too. Slower with more tension and proper technique will allow you more control. Slow way down when you get to the ends of your cuts up in the points..I see your blade plung into the plastic and the next cut up does not meet with it. In otherwords your flames don't come to a perfect stopped point. Reminds me of when I first started scrolling! We probably all scrolled like that at one time..it takes some practice, like sewing.:biggrin:
Just like in the article, you should use a piece of scrap plywood, lay it out properly and glue your work to that, so you always know where to cut the blanks out. In the article/s I use plywood sides, like building boxes. I do not do that anymore. I still use a piece of plywood for the bottom, but the sides are a plastic frame made from cutting boards. So every bottom piece I cut the same to fit the frame. The frame simply screws together. I place the wood into the frame, screw the frame together, then use masking tap across the bottom so nothing can leak. It's just more economical and faster this way because there is less wood waste and no time spent building boxes.
Eventually there will also be an article for building a table for your scrollsaw. To cut tiny pieces, you need a false table. This is for safety and so you don't loose what you cut.
workinforwood
Member
Pic 1 is my zero clearance table. Not sure when that'll be published..its' waiting in line because I have several articles pre-staged in line waiting for their turn. It uses cauls and wooden handles to hold it in place, so it is easily removed and the top panel can be easily replaced if it was to become too damaged. I do not find I need to replace the top too often, but that's all going to depend on your skill level. If you push hard in all directions, the blade bows and eats the table.
Pic 2: This is some skulls. You can see there is a specific size peice of plywood I use..it is 4 7/8 wide. If you deduct 1/8" for saw kerf during layout, that means you get 5 blanks at 7/8 wide each and each skull sits in the center of each blank <that's theory...the skull might sit a hair off one side or another, but it's going to be close to the center enough that you will be able to locate the true center when the blank is harvested and be guaranteed more than enough safe room for drilling. Each skull as you can see is cut from a piece of alumilite that is 7/16 thick and is placed upside down on the plywood. The plywood is the face of the blank, so anything placed on it must be upside down. I slice the block at 7/8, then I flip the block and the plywood goes on the fence and I trim the resin so that it is straight and parallel with the plywood, then the last step is to remove the plywood without barely touching the resin, leaving a finished blank.
pic 3, you see the frame. This is the cutting board frame that simply surrounds the plywood bottom and is taped on the bottom. The resin you see inside the frame is accompanied on the left side by the finished product, pink flamingo's. This is a two tone white with a tiny touch of green. it looks like there is way more green than there is, but the green that is on the face of the blank is very shallow and will spin away..looks are deceiving with pouring blanks as resin flows according to weight and the weight of the green is more than the white, so some of it flows a thin line down the wood is all. As you can see on the block still in the frame, there is not much green there in reality, and even less when you get inside.
Pic 2: This is some skulls. You can see there is a specific size peice of plywood I use..it is 4 7/8 wide. If you deduct 1/8" for saw kerf during layout, that means you get 5 blanks at 7/8 wide each and each skull sits in the center of each blank <that's theory...the skull might sit a hair off one side or another, but it's going to be close to the center enough that you will be able to locate the true center when the blank is harvested and be guaranteed more than enough safe room for drilling. Each skull as you can see is cut from a piece of alumilite that is 7/16 thick and is placed upside down on the plywood. The plywood is the face of the blank, so anything placed on it must be upside down. I slice the block at 7/8, then I flip the block and the plywood goes on the fence and I trim the resin so that it is straight and parallel with the plywood, then the last step is to remove the plywood without barely touching the resin, leaving a finished blank.
pic 3, you see the frame. This is the cutting board frame that simply surrounds the plywood bottom and is taped on the bottom. The resin you see inside the frame is accompanied on the left side by the finished product, pink flamingo's. This is a two tone white with a tiny touch of green. it looks like there is way more green than there is, but the green that is on the face of the blank is very shallow and will spin away..looks are deceiving with pouring blanks as resin flows according to weight and the weight of the green is more than the white, so some of it flows a thin line down the wood is all. As you can see on the block still in the frame, there is not much green there in reality, and even less when you get inside.
