Talk about LOW!! Virulent Rant

[bitshird]

It seems that I have fallen prey to a company similar to Oklahoman (Roy) and had my good name stolen and besmirched Now Crafts USA is selling a Pen Pro tool, BUT it's not mine. How can this be you may ask, well it seems there is this guy who incorrectly thought he owned the interchangeable carbide insert wood turning world.
But a letter a year ago to his Attorney proved him wrong. I should have expected some underhanded slimeball trick from the guy, cause that's the way he operates. A friend in Baja told me a few days ago that easy wood tools was making a Pen Pro but I looked on their site and it wasn't there. Sure enough on the front page of CSUSA there is a nice You tube presentation of a easy wood tools with it's original designation Ci2m, but the chumps are calling it a Pen Pro after I've built a rather nice reputation on that name, AND they have it TM'd Stupid Stupid Stupid Stupid . How stupid can an old man be.
Well I guess it's time to call the Lawyers like I need the money, and if I remember just filing the Patent doesn't have much bearing on the Trade Mark even if I did file the paper work for the patents as Pen Pro and Bowl Pro. I\at least I know one thing, He's noticed me. I can't become as large as he is nor do I want to, that's for wonderkind Animefan also called Andrew (on a good day, several other names for the other days). but I have a real choice one for the guy I'm upset with. It regards him in the traditional 1800's 1900's family planning in eastern Kentucky, it almost worked with their Thoroughbred Horses, if they weren't bred to closely, I think his stable missed the mark. Please do not interpret this as a slam on Kentucky, those polices were outlawed about a week after his conception.
If this gets deleted or I get censured I will understand, I have never openly criticized any one to this degree on this forum, but I can't wait to meet him at the next show, there may be an old west shootout in Waco, only with turning tools at 20 paces.
OK I feel a little better here is the link to CSUSA from whom I will purchase nothing ever again I know my 300 to 400 a month won't hurt, but it can't help either. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/
Stepping off soap box

 

[thetalbott4]

I looked at CSUSA just yesterday and noticed the ad. My thought was that bitshird is doing ok for himself....that sucks it wasnt you. On the one hand you think maybe its more trouble than its worth to go after him, on the other hand you get tired of getting kicked in the nads and doing nothing about it. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Simplex]

Ken -

I think I can say with pretty good confidence that your product has a loyal following here at IPA. I purchased you Pen Pro last Christmas and have not opened my box of traditional turning tools since. Besides, your prices are better, too. Hopefully, this all works out. Best of luck.

 

[bitshird]

Scott, we went around with his Attorneys about 15 months ago, but it turns out his Attorneys weren't well informed, in fact they actually helped me make my case.
I don't think it's EZ wood tools I have a feeling it's CSUSA, they've been pulling things off this site a while. I imagine they have better attorneys than I do so tomorrow we are filing a new trademark with the full name Woodchuck Pen Pro, and go after them for selling an imposter tool, not a Genuine Woodchuck Pen Pro but well see.

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmm

It seems that I have fallen prey to a company similar to Oklahoman (Roy) and had my good name stolen and besmirched Now Crafts USA is selling a Pen Pro tool, BUT it's not mine. How can this be you may ask, well it seems there is this guy who incorrectly thought he owned the interchangeable carbide insert wood turning world.
But a letter a year ago to his Attorney proved him wrong. I should have expected some underhanded slimeball trick from the guy, cause that's the way he operates. A friend in Baja told me a few days ago that easy wood tools was making a Pen Pro but I looked on their site and it wasn't there. Sure enough on the front page of CSUSA there is a nice You tube presentation of a easy wood tools with it's original designation Ci2m, but the chumps are calling it a Pen Pro after I've built a rather nice reputation on that name, AND they have it TM'd Stupid Stupid Stupid Stupid . How stupid can an old man be.
Well I guess it's time to call the Lawyers like I need the money, and if I remember just filing the Patent doesn't have much bearing on the Trade Mark even if I did file the paper work for the patents as Pen Pro and Bowl Pro. I\at least I know one thing, He's noticed me. I can't become as large as he is nor do I want to, that's for wonderkind Animefan also called Andrew (on a good day, several other names for the other days). but I have a real choice one for the guy I'm upset with. It regards him in the traditional 1800's 1900's family planning in eastern Kentucky, it almost worked with their Thoroughbred Horses, if they weren't bred to closely, I think his stable missed the mark. Please do not interpret this as a slam on Kentucky, those polices were outlawed about a week after his conception.
If this gets deleted or I get censured I will understand, I have never openly criticized any one to this degree on this forum, but I can't wait to meet him at the next show, there may be an old west shootout in Waco, only with turning tools at 20 paces.
OK I feel a little better here is the link to CSUSA from whom I will purchase nothing ever again I know my 300 to 400 a month won't hurt, but it can't help either. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/
Stepping off soap box

I wonder if they can trademark a name already in use for the same thing by someone else? It almost seems that wouldn't be allowed....

 

[babyblues]

I just opened an advertisement from CSUSA that came in the mail today and saw their Pen Pro. I thought it sounded a little fishy as they claim it's made exclusively for CSUSA when I remembered seeing it on here. That's too bad. Personally, I won't be boycotting CSUSA, but I only buy from them what I can't find anywhere else (I do like Jr Gents). If they sell something I can get from someone on IAP I get it here. If I ever decide to try a tool like that I'll definitely get one from you.

Is there some way you can contest the trademark? It would be easy to prove that you were already DBA "Pen Pro". It might be that a name can't be trademarked if it's already in use, even if that name hasn't already been trademarked by someone else. It's worth checking out.

 

[jttheclockman]

Now I am shooting in the dark here but I am guessing you are going after the name more so than the tool. The reason I say that is because that tool has been around for awhile but with a longer handle. Many of the turners over at AAW have been using similar tools for quite some time. I belong to another site and have to say about 5 years ago a fellow sent me the carbide cutters that he was using in a tool very similar to that. He made calls for a living.

Keep us informed as to the outcome but I think you may need deep pockets.

http://www.easywoodtools.com/

 

[MesquiteMan]

Ken,

All is not lost. From the USPTO:

What are "common law" rights?

Federal registration is not required to establish rights in a trademark. Common law rights arise from actual use of a mark and may allow the common law user to successfully challenge a registration or application.

http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712

The owner of a registered trademark may commence legal proceedings for trademark infringement to prevent unauthorized use of that trademark. However, registration is not required. The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it may be reasonably expected to expand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

What are common law trademark rights?

Federal registration is not required to establish trademark rights. Common law rights arise from the actual use of a mark. Generally, whoever first uses a mark in commerce or files an "intent to use" application with the Patent and Trademark Office has the ultimate right to use and registration. However, there are many benefits of federal trademark registration.

http://www.legalzoom.com/trademarks-faq/common-law-trademark-rights.html

Common Law Trademarks: At common law, a trademark is obtained by adopting and using the trademark in association with goods or services. The mark must be placed in actual use before protection is available. Once the mark becomes associated in the mind of the public with the particular good or service, the common law trademark is established. Ordinarily, the geographic scope of the common law trademark is limited to the area of use.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/intellectual_property/trademark_law.html

 

[MesquiteMan]

Oh yeah, their ™ is not registered or they are just stupid and not using the ®. They are claiming a Common Law trade mark and you can prove that you have senior rights since you have been using it longer. Get your IP lawyer involved and I bet the name gets changed.

 

[MesquiteMan]

One other thing...I just did a trademark search for the term Pen Pro and there is no registered trade mark for that name.

 

[workinforwood]

Sorry Ken, I feel your pain and support you. I advise you stop talking now and see if you can have a mod go back delete certain comments you made as to how you would fight this. This is open forum they can read too. You don't go to war and broadcast your strategy.

 

[Dave_M]

I saw that a few days ago and thought to myself "Here we go again. Must they steal everything that comes from this site." I sent CSUSA an email immediately letting them know I was fed up with these tactics and I had spent my last dime at CSUSA. I'm sure they could care less about where I shop, but it matters to me.

 

[jd99]

I had to do this battle a while back it's no fun, but it's great to stop them in their track. I also looked at the trade mark DB, there are a few records that are assoicated with Pen Pro but they are all dead most just cancled, and none of them deal with tools or anything like that.

I would submit the trade mark ASAP.

Good Luck.
Danny

 

[witz1976]

Totally not cool. Ken sorry for your woes and I wish you the best of luck in the legal battle I am sure you are now engaging in.

I know CSUSA has reps on this site, so I hope they realize that this is bad business for them.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Ken, in my case it was MY stuptity, in yours its CSUSA's it seems. Put up a good fight to protect your well deserved name. As a side the person who "USED" my name has never done a single thing other than drop from his website selling "SECONDS" but just a few weeks ago contacted me after he was contacted about a certain imited Edition pen I made by a customer and at that time told me he was getting ready to work on his site and explained that life has gotten in the way of him making any additions to it. I am in the process right now of makinf a copy of that limited edition pen.

 

[Dalecamino]

Sorry Ken, I feel your pain and support you. I advise you stop talking now and see if you can have a mod go back delete certain comments you made as to how you would fight this. This is open forum they can read too. You don't go to war and broadcast your strategy.

Exactly what I thought when I read the OP. Hope this works out for you Ken.

 

[PenMan1]

Ken:
I almost sent you a note of congratulations after seeing the Pen Pro on the CUSA home page. Then, I noticed that the tool didn't look right and after reading more it occurred to me that someone had "borrowed" your good name.

I'm really sorry about this! In your shoes, I'd probably spend all of Andrew's inheritance trying to reclaim my good name. This is simply WRONG!

 

[dankc908]

Well --- After buying two of bitshird's tools and thinking about a third one I guess it's time I put my CSUSA catalog in the recycle bin since I won't be needing/using it anymore!

Dan

 

[IPD_Mr]

How much you want to bet there won't be one word on here from any of the CSUSA employees that monitor this site. I have always liked CSUSA but this is the kind of stuff that will make me take my business elsewhere such as Aaron.

 

[Andrew_K99]

I was planning on making my first order from them, guess I'll need to find someone else that sells Jr. Gents/States II.

Let the CSUSA boycott begin :biggrin:

AK

 

[Chasper]

To expand on and add a few points.

1. Proof of first usage of the name by you can provide legal basis to vacate allowable trademark usage of the name by someone else. Even if they have made claim of TM and you didn't, you can still stop them from using the name. In about 2005 I obtained a court order prohibiting the usage of a name by a company that filed TM in 1936, I was able to prove first usage in 1896.
2. First usage only protects the usage of the name, it doesn't provide basis for claiming damages. To be able to claim damages you must register the TM.
3. Go after any and all resellers, not just the rogue manufacturer. As a reseller they are party to the intellectual property theft and they bare equal responsibility. CSUSA might be very unhappy with a tool supplier who knowingly exposed them legal expenses, reputation damage, and possible financial damages.

 

[Boz]

Ask your lawyer about "Prior Art" if you can show that you had developed and marketed the product prior to this guy then you should prevail. Unfortunatly this can be costly. I worked for a company that had developed a product and had shown it at trade shows and had articles published in trade journals about the product. Then a large company took the idea and started to market it. With our prior art, the marketing pieces and articles, went to a lawyer and the response was come with $250,000 and we will take the case.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Sorry Ken, I feel your pain and support you. I advise you stop talking now and see if you can have a mod go back delete certain comments you made as to how you would fight this. This is open forum they can read too. You don't go to war and broadcast your strategy.

Ditto

 

[jttheclockman]

I noticed there is a place to put comments about the video underneath the video. Has anyone left any comments and have they been deleted???? I see there is 0 comments. Maybe time to flood the comment box with comments.

 

[TomW]

Ken,

One Word : ROYALTY!

Tom

 

[bitshird]

Every one, thanks for your support, I really shouldn't blast Crafts USA after all they are a large company and need all the revenue they can grab, even if it is a little on the slightly wrong side. Were I in their shoes though I don't think I'd go to that level, but I don't have a bunch of marketing geniuses to contend with, I do hope they put their marketing geniuses back under the rock they found them under. BUT CSUSA is a decent company, and I'm very certain in the end they will do the proper thing, if not then we'll see. But here's hoping they are at least half the honorable company I've always credited them with being.
And to the folks that are retailers of the Pen Pro tools we will be engraving ID marks (registered) on the tools shortly.
I still am not sure whether this scheme was cooked up by them or EZ wood tools, either way Thanks to everyone for you emails, PMs and emails to CSUSA.
Ken.

 

[dankc908]

I noticed there is a place to put comments about the video underneath the video. Has anyone left any comments and have they been deleted???? I see there is 0 comments. Maybe time to flood the comment box with comments.

I just noticed that they have disabled both Comments and Ratings (I had posted one "dislike" and when I went back in under my regular account name it had been disabled). Like most big companies they will do anything to avoid being held responsible for their own dishonest actions. This is very disappointing and I had planned to go to one of their turning classes this summer. I guess the trip to Utah is now "off"!

 

[PenMan1]

I noticed there is a place to put comments about the video underneath the video. Has anyone left any comments and have they been deleted???? I see there is 0 comments. Maybe time to flood the comment box with comments.

John:
Comments are disabled for the video. I guess they knew that they would get an "ear full".

You can, however "thumbs down" it.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

I noticed there is a place to put comments about the video underneath the video. Has anyone left any comments and have they been deleted???? I see there is 0 comments. Maybe time to flood the comment box with comments.

John:
Comments are disabled for the video. I guess they knew that they would get an "ear full".

You can, however "thumbs down" it.

I see two comments there now

 

[Russianwolf]

I was able to thumbs down the video and leave a comment. Also thumbs upped the other comments saying the name isn't theirs.

 

[witz1976]

I was able to thumbs down the video and leave a comment. Also thumbs upped the other comments saying the name isn't theirs.

+1 just need a youtube account...I did the same!

 

[mokol]

i got 3 of your tools and love them
keep up your good work, victor

 

[PenMan1]

I was planning on making my first order from them, guess I'll need to find someone else that sells Jr. Gents/States II.

Let the CSUSA boycott begin :biggrin:

AK

Exoticblanks.com has a better price on the Jr. Gents/States II, anyway.:biggrin:

 

[bitshird]

Folks, Thanks again for your support, I just got off the phone with CSUSA and the matter has been resolved, They had no intention of trying to capitalize on my name and they will be making changes to their website as soon as they can, It was a very informative conversation, and as I had thought Craig Jackson of EZ wood tools had nothing whatsoever to do with this. I don't think this need be carried out any further, CSUSA has offered to go above and beyond and settle this in a very professional matter and I wish to thank them for their prompt and courteous response.
Again thanks to all of the folks that supported this on my behalf, I guess we are still one large dysfunctional (on occasion) family.
Ken

 

[Russianwolf]

Good to here you got is worked out.


Watching them

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Ken, I am happy to hear that "things" are working out for you. Continued success with your Woodchuck line.

 

[PenMan1]

Restores my faith in CUSA! I thought that they were better than this!

 

[GregHight]

I would have been surprised to hear that Craig with EWT was behind something like that as I know he is an honorable man. You both make great product and I can say that both of you provide great customer service. I'm glad to hear that this issue has been resolved in a satisfactory manner!

 

[IPD_Mr]

Restores my faith in CUSA! I thought that they were better than this!

Well said Andy.
The fact that they acknowledged and handled this so quickly says a lot. Let's see how long it takes for them to fix the website and the You Tube video.

 

[PenMan1]

I just went to the CSUSA website and it has already been removed (at least from the home page).

That's the way to do business! When wrong, admit it, fix it and move on.