Is my thinking unreasonable????

[Monty]

Last week I ordered some pen parts from a vendor (I won't mention which one). A wrong item was shipped by the vendor (20 small individual pieces). The vendor was called and they are replacing the wrong items and sending a label to ship back the items shipped in error. So far so good.
While I was talking to them about the error, I ordered another item I failed to order on the original order. This item is very small and inexpensive and would easily fit in the FR box that the replacement would be shipped in. When I looked at my CC bill this morning, the charge for the item ordered included shipping.
Am I being unreasonable complaining that they are charging me shipping? The cost of what I ordered was only about $10 and the shipping added another 50%.

 

[OLDMAN5050]

Unreasonable for sure.

 

[Bocere1]

Sounds like it would have been a good opportunity for the vendor to make it up to you, even if the second part you ordered was not shipping from the same facility or wasn't currently on-hand, a forward thinking salesperson would have eaten the shipping/item cost to keep you around for future sales. Here's where a small vendor, although as a small vendor these costs/mistakes are harder to swallow than a larger vendor, has more flexibility, while the larger vendors require the person you talk to on the phone to show personal initiative and personally lick that envelope to make it happen.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

It seems that they did the right thing with respect to fixing their mistake. Maybe they don't even realize that shipping was charged because of the add-on items ordered. Maybe their order system automatically adds shipping and they didn't think to credit you for it.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for you to expect to not pay shipping to have some small items added to a box that was already coming. If those items meant upgrading to a bigger box / increased shipping costs, then I think you should expect to pay for that. Did you talk to the vendor about it and see what they say? I don't think it would be unreasonable for you to ask about it.

The best thing would have been to confirm that there would be no extra shipping cost when you ordered the add on items, but it's hard to think of everything when you are on the phone dealing with stuff like this. I've had mixed results in these types of situations. Most times the vendors have done right by me. These vendors get my business over the other vendors that will jump on any chance to squeeze another nickel out of me.

Ed

 

[Smitty37]

Not Sure

Well Mannie, I'm not sure you wouldn't have seen the same thing from me. The new item would have meant I had to process a new order and the new order (in my store) would have automatically had a flat rate shipping charge added. So unless I went in and modified the order the shipping charge would have been paid. I hope I would have thought to adjust the order, but there is no guarantee that I would have. I guess what I'm saying is that it just might have slipped the vendor's mind.

Last week I ordered some pen parts from a vendor (I won't mention which one). A wrong item was shipped by the vendor (20 small individual pieces). The vendor was called and they are replacing the wrong items and sending a label to ship back the items shipped in error. So far so good.
While I was talking to them about the error, I ordered another item I failed to order on the original order. This item is very small and inexpensive and would easily fit in the FR box that the replacement would be shipped in. When I looked at my CC bill this morning, the charge for the item ordered included shipping.
Am I being unreasonable complaining that they are charging me shipping? The cost of what I ordered was only about $10 and the shipping added another 50%.

 

[ed4copies]

In truth, a $10 order is a loss for any vendor. (on a "high-margin" product, they may have grossed $3, for this they "picked, packed and processed payment"--the payment company took a buck and will take more if there is any additional credit)

(By the way, we are NOT the vendor in question)

Then, if the software has already added shipping, there is more time involved in issuing a credit. The credit card "clearance" company will not allow the credit until the original transaction clears (a few days). So, the vendor would have to remember to do it, as well.

Mistakes are expensive---we all try to avoid them!!!
It sucks being human!!

Are you unreasonable?? No!
But this is the "other side of the coin", also not unreasonable, is it??

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I don't think your out of line but as others have mentioned the way things are done now it's possible no one thought of it. My only thought is that did you get two packages or one. If they put the return items in your second order to save them money I would be upset. If they sent two seperate packages then I guess they did what was right. As long as they took care of the problem they did the right thing but as far as going out of their way to help as a whole maybe they whey busy or just didn't take the time.

 

[KenV]

Yea Mannie -- you are being unreasonable.

You are making assumptions that the processes are easy and you are in a Mom and Pop Candy Store --

In todays commerce there are separate process streams with different "tickets" established for different processes. New orders are on a different process than service/warranty.

The assumption that there are no additional process steps and it is just throw one more item in the box does not work -- and the logistics management folks will tell you that other than as a courtesy to customers, never did from a cost/value basis.

Shipping is a major cost center for business, and has a number of reasons that we should expect it to increase and increase. The smaller the transaction, the higher the relative cost for shipping and handling.

I live in Alaska and along with Hawaii we are at the end of the supply train and see the marginal differences in shipping, as well as the differences in process flows.

 

[Akula]

I would go ahead and pay it. But I would never place another order from that vendor. I understand people make mistakes but when they compound them, it's time for me to move on.

When I order material, I usually have a reason. I allow time for orders to come in, some vendors are quick and some are slower than any reasonable business should be and I account for them possibly making mistakes. It happens. But you went and tried to make another purchase at the time of correcting their mistake and get hit for what I see as basically paying to cover their shipping mistake.

When I make a mistake, I don't expect the person I'm dealing with to cover anything. My mistake, I will own it. I will do everything possible to make it right.

When your dealing with a customer, then stay with that customer until the transaction is completed. I don't see any extra costs involved with what they were trying to do. If the "computer system" added in the shipping cost, then I see no reason why the person could not have corrected it at that time. There was no real cost involved other than the time to make a customer happy by correcting the mistake. If the item fit into the shipping box, how hard could it be to put it inside. Maybe the vendor could even add a special "coupon code" or whatever that they could add in the "computer system" that allows for free shipping. They had to do or enter something so the customer was not charged again for their mistake in getting the correct items out to him.

 

[Chatham PenWorks]

When all is said and done, not unreasonable at all, especially since this was done on the phone. Most likely though, another phone call will get you a credit for that shipping charge. It certainly should. No reason you should have to pay shipping for adding to a box that was already going out for free.

 

[Smitty37]

I would go ahead and pay it. But I would never place another order from that vendor. I understand people make mistakes but when they compound them, it's time for me to move on.

When I order material, I usually have a reason. I allow time for orders to come in, some vendors are quick and some are slower than any reasonable business should be and I account for them possibly making mistakes. It happens. But you went and tried to make another purchase at the time of correcting their mistake and get hit for what I see as basically paying to cover their shipping mistake.

When I make a mistake, I don't expect the person I'm dealing with to cover anything. My mistake, I will own it. I will do everything possible to make it right.

When your dealing with a customer, then stay with that customer until the transaction is completed. I don't see any extra costs involved with what they were trying to do. If the "computer system" added in the shipping cost, then I see no reason why the person could not have corrected it at that time. There was no real cost involved other than the time to make a customer happy by correcting the mistake. If the item fit into the shipping box, how hard could it be to put it inside. Maybe the vendor could even add a special "coupon code" or whatever that they could add in the "computer system" that allows for free shipping. They had to do or enter something so the customer was not charged again for their mistake in getting the correct items out to him.

Hmmmm....I think it's pretty obvious that you aren't a vendor. Mannie is talking about two separate transactions...one is being made whole after a vendors mistake and the other is entering a new transaction buying another item.

Mannie freely acknowledges the vendor satisfactorily took care of the first including return shipping.

But the second is an entirely new transaction and is not related to the first other than by when it was placed.

If there had been no mistake on the first order, Mannie would have expected to pay shipping on the second order or might not have made it at the time he did. If he wanted free shipping on the second order the onus was on him to ask for it and the vender might well have given it to him - but I don't think he has any right to expect it.

BTW I'm not the vendor in question either.

 

[BJohn]

Not unreasonable at all, IMHO I can relate to the issue but the vender needs to own up to the mistake. And to help form a good relationship with your customer should have made sure that everything was shipped together, at no charge to you.

For example I placed two orders last week with Berea, one charged to me the other order was my daughters. They placed both orders in one box and charged one shipping fee.

Now I did communicate my wishes that they do that, so I am wondering if you had that discussion with them when you placed the order for the left off item.

But I do agree for good customer relations they should have done that without blinking an eye. That order may have been $10. But your next might be $500 or more.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Mannie you are "expecting" LOGIC to prevail in this matter. Sorry to say that it is in short supply for too many folks these days. FWIW, you should not have been charged the shipping fee.

 

[Akula]

I would go ahead and pay it. But I would never place another order from that vendor. I understand people make mistakes but when they compound them, it's time for me to move on.

When I order material, I usually have a reason. I allow time for orders to come in, some vendors are quick and some are slower than any reasonable business should be and I account for them possibly making mistakes. It happens. But you went and tried to make another purchase at the time of correcting their mistake and get hit for what I see as basically paying to cover their shipping mistake.

When I make a mistake, I don't expect the person I'm dealing with to cover anything. My mistake, I will own it. I will do everything possible to make it right.

When your dealing with a customer, then stay with that customer until the transaction is completed. I don't see any extra costs involved with what they were trying to do. If the "computer system" added in the shipping cost, then I see no reason why the person could not have corrected it at that time. There was no real cost involved other than the time to make a customer happy by correcting the mistake. If the item fit into the shipping box, how hard could it be to put it inside. Maybe the vendor could even add a special "coupon code" or whatever that they could add in the "computer system" that allows for free shipping. They had to do or enter something so the customer was not charged again for their mistake in getting the correct items out to him.

Hmmmm....I think it's pretty obvious that you aren't a vendor. Mannie is talking about two separate transactions...one is being made whole after a vendors mistake and the other is entering a new transaction buying another item.

Mannie freely acknowledges the vendor satisfactorily took care of the first including return shipping.

But the second is an entirely new transaction and is not related to the first other than by when it was placed.

If there had been no mistake on the first order, Mannie would have expected to pay shipping on the second order or might not have made it at the time he did. If he wanted free shipping on the second order the onus was on him to ask for it and the vender might well have given it to him - but I don't think he has any right to expect it.

BTW I'm not the vendor in question either.

Your correct, I'm not a vendor. I do buy things. I do sell things. Like I said, I would pay it and be done with that vendor.

 

[SteveG]

this is my personal experience that may help to see the underlying issue from the vendor perspective. I had called in a order with PSI, and in the same call mentioned a small item (single pen part) that was defective. I said that I had waited to deal with the defective part until I was placing an order so they could combine the ship out. The response was: thanks for the thought, but warranty items are handled differently, and will arrive in a separate shipment. So I offered to provide PSI the "savings" of combined shipping, but they did not want it. I expect that this policy is in place to provide the company with the most economical method (all things considered), to deal with the business of doing e-commerce retailing.

For Monty, if you had worked out the details in your call, you would at least have known what to expect. You would have given yourself the option to do something differently, like waiting to order the single item until you had more things to order. That being said, it would have been a very good thing for the PSI rep to explain the separate shipping policy to give a "heads up" of what to expect.

 

[Smitty37]

Not unreasonable at all, IMHO I can relate to the issue but the vender needs to own up to the mistake. And to help form a good relationship with your customer should have made sure that everything was shipped together, at no charge to you.

For example I placed two orders last week with Berea, one charged to me the other order was my daughters. They placed both orders in one box and charged one shipping fee.

Now I did communicate my wishes that they do that, so I am wondering if you had that discussion with them when you placed the order for the left off item.

But I do agree for good customer relations they should have done that without blinking an eye. That order may have been $10. But your next might be $500 or more.

I think Mannie indicated in the OP that the vendor did own up to their mistake and made good on it.

The additional order was by his own words - something Mannie forgot to include in the first order. That is not the venor's mistake. Is it? Now that makes the question "Does a vendor owe you a free remedy if you make a mistake."

 

[BJohn]

CUSTOMER RELATIONS

Not unreasonable at all, IMHO I can relate to the issue but the vender needs to own up to the mistake. And to help form a good relationship with your customer should have made sure that everything was shipped together, at no charge to you.

For example I placed two orders last week with Berea, one charged to me the other order was my daughters. They placed both orders in one box and charged one shipping fee.

Now I did communicate my wishes that they do that, so I am wondering if you had that discussion with them when you placed the order for the left off item.

But I do agree for good customer relations they should have done that without blinking an eye. That order may have been $10. But your next might be $500 or more.

I think Mannie indicated in the OP that the vendor did own up to their mistake and made good on it.

The additional order was by his own words - something Mannie forgot to include in the first order. That is not the venor's mistake. Is it? Now that makes the question "Does a vendor owe you a free remedy if you make a mistake."

IMHO But it all comes down to is this, does this un-named vender value Mannie as a customer and want to keep him. If worring about $5.00 FRB is worth loosing a customer for the future then that is a vendor I don't want to deal with either. While I have an idea the Vendor was mentioned I wish he would name him. So I know not to use.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Mannie, did you try to call the Vendor after receiving the credit card charge ? Was the item shipped in the same box as the replacement? If it was one of the big boys, their order taking and their return paperwork are done as stand alone items and possibly could have been combined for shipping but the person taking your order was just following company policy if you did not ask if it could be combined. BTW it was not us, but if we would have done something like that we would have refunded the shipping once we were made aware, as would I presume most other Vendors. .

 

[Smitty37]

Mannie, did you try to call the Vendor after receiving the credit card charge ? Was the item shipped in the same box as the replacement? If it was one of the big boys, their order taking and their return paperwork are done as stand alone items and possibly could have been combined for shipping but the person taking your order was just following company policy if you did not ask if it could be combined. BTW it was not us, but if we would have done something like that we would have refunded the shipping once we were made aware, as would I presume most other Vendors. .

Roy, you and I are small enough to do things like that and do them because almost all of our customers are repeat customers that we know will be back.

But even there, I would expect the customer to ask rather than assume that the new order to be combined for shipping with the replacement items.

The thing that amazes me is the number of people who fault the vendor for not automatically doing that.

 

[Monty]

Here's the update on what has happened today.


I received my original order from the vendor on Wednesday. This is a smaller vendor, not one of the larger major ones, but one that has been in business for quite some time. I discovered that one item (20 individual small pieces) were not what I had ordered. Called the company at 6PM. The voice mail message says they are open from 9:30 AM to 7 PM central time. Left a message for them to call me. At 6:55 PM I had not heard back and I called again and left another message.


I had to go to work Thursday so I informed my wife what the error was and that I wanted to place another small order with the company (about $10 worth). I did not think to have her ask if the new items ordered could be shipped with the replacement items (my mistake).



When I checked my CC statement this morning, I was charged for the items plus shipping. This is when I posted my first post about this. I tried calling the vendor this morning and got the voice mail again. They finally returned my call about 4PM this afternoon. I was told that the items had been shipped separate and that it never occurred to them to ship them together, nor that something as small as my order could ship 1st Class for less. He also said he would check, but didn't think they would be willing to refund the shipping or issue a partial store credit.


I'm still not going to name the company since I feel I was partially at fault for not asking about combining the shipping. I guess from now on out on things like this, I'll have to remember to ask if shipping can be combined.


I'll consider the issue closed and not worry about the $5 for shipping.

 

[Smitty37]

Here's the update on what has happened today.


I received my original order from the vendor on Wednesday. This is a smaller vendor, not one of the larger major ones, but one that has been in business for quite some time. I discovered that one item (20 individual small pieces) were not what I had ordered. Called the company at 6PM. The voice mail message says they are open from 9:30 AM to 7 PM central time. Left a message for them to call me. At 6:55 PM I had not heard back and I called again and left another message.


I had to go to work Thursday so I informed my wife what the error was and that I wanted to place another small order with the company (about $10 worth). I did not think to have her ask if the new items ordered could be shipped with the replacement items (my mistake).



When I checked my CC statement this morning, I was charged for the items plus shipping. This is when I posted my first post about this. I tried calling the vendor this morning and got the voice mail again. They finally returned my call about 4PM this afternoon. I was told that the items had been shipped separate and that it never occurred to them to ship them together, nor that something as small as my order could ship 1st Class for less. He also said he would check, but didn't think they would be willing to refund the shipping or issue a partial store credit.


I'm still not going to name the company since I feel I was partially at fault for not asking about combining the shipping. I guess from now on out on things like this, I'll have to remember to ask if shipping can be combined.


I'll consider the issue closed and not worry about the $5 for shipping.

Now, here I think you have a legitimate beef. I hope you'd never need to wait that long for me to return your call.

 

[ljpilcher@suddenlink]

Unreasonable?

Perhaps not, but others have pointed out reasons why it might happen. I find it unreasonable for me that if I have to order a 50 cent part and pay 5 or 6 dollars shipping. The item could be slipped in an envelope and shipped for the price of a first class stamp. However, they had to make the effort to ship it and probably at a loss. I try very hard to make sure all orders are large enough to make the shipping reasonable.

That said, the most egregious situation I have ever run across was when I wanted to order several small items from a big box store and they would have charged me separate shipping for each one, even though they were all the same type product. I didn't order them. Fortunately not long after that they offered free shipping so I ordered them then and paid no shipping. Not often that will work out.

 

[Tom T]

Maybe ask for a manager and see if they will ship the next bigger order for free. That way you win and they win. Being in business is tougher than most think, and for sure you can not please all the people all the time. Even though you try.

Other thought, if they have done a good job on many other orders aren't they entitled to one mistake. Maybe even two. No one is perfect all the time.

 

[beck3906]

The interesting aspect I see is the number of folks who would stop using a vendor over something like this. Those folks then loose a possible supplier with great sales or possibly the only vendor with stock on hand when needed.

 

[Janster]

..in my experiences, most ALL vendors go out of their way to at least "meet in the middle" most bend over backwards to make consumers happy. They WANT OUR BUSINESS! ....Jan

 

[jfoh]

I understand principles but five bucks is just not worth worrying about. You have been upset several days over five bucks. Mistakes were made, small ones, or better yet the entire transaction could have been handled smarter and more efficiently by both sides in a perfect world. I just call it a learning experience and try not to have it happen again. And yes I have screwed the pouch for more than five bucks but had to learn that mistakes happen and not get so hung up on right and principles over money. Family, kids or dogs and that is another issue.