Kits with more "meat"

[TonyL]

This may be a dumb idea, but I see at least one or two kits that are designed with thicker barrel walls. I would love to see more like this (even at the expense of adding weight to the pen).

Here's why (my opinion only):

• Probably more durable (when turning and using)
• Greater "depth", especially with non-opaque blanks
• Possible more forgiving in terms of tube and barrel painting
• Less waste (albeit, only a little less waste).

We take a nice piece of stock drill a 12.5mm and 10.5 mm hole in it and then basically turn it down into a veneer - maybe that is the "art" of penturning (I don't know).

I do know, and do practice making my barrels larger without distorting the lines and proportions, but it would be nice for the aforementioned reasons to have a little more "flesh" on the tube where the barrel ends meet the hardware (again, this is all my opinion).

Just throwing this out there to see what you folks, especially with more experience and expertise think.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

And even more so when casting.

The obstacle often is between the sizes needed for clearance inside and proportions that feel right outside.

I like some neat too.

Cigar is very meaty. Zen is decent. Aero is a better choice than Sierra for thickness.

I don't find the jr series to be too bad.

 

[CREID]

Ok, that's 5 out of 5. You can close the poll now, since everyone agrees with me.

 

[jttheclockman]

Oh boy Tony the Poll police are going to come after you too.

As to your point my answer is not there but I am all about more meat for casting purposes. I brought this up before and just recently with the person who was ordering kits from Dayacom He mentioned that he was working with them to make their own kits and i mentioned I would like to see this aspect done to the kits.

I have used Cigar kits, Sierra Vista kits, and sometimes Spring Blossom, and also Jr. Gents. I will be trying the Imperial soon as I can get back in my shop.

 

[wob50]

Tony i agree more meat on the pen would make it a little heavy but i think the trade off is ok

Dan yes for the same issue on resin would make it a little easier for watch blanks
and could add more detail.

 

[MikeL]

More meat means more flexibility in my mind. If I ever get the patience and skills to do a watch parts pen I would think those guys and gals are using pens with meat. More meat must be better for that kind of pen and others that embed things into PR.

 

[TonyL]

Thanks for your participation.

 

[Cwalker935]

I did a spreadsheet for some of the kits that I use where I added a column to shoe how much meat was left based on tube size and bushing size. It helps me when casting embedded objects. Here it is for anyone that may be interested.

View attachment tubes and bushings.xlsx

 

[mark james]

I did a spreadsheet for some of the kits that I use where I added a column to shoe how much meat was left based on tube size and bushing size. It helps me when casting embedded objects. Here it is for anyone that may be interested.

View attachment 133746

Cool spreadsheet Cody!! Looks like a scene from one of the Matrix movies of all computer code :tongue::tongue::tongue:.

But, I'm not good with code!!! :tongue:

 

[Cwalker935]

I did a spreadsheet for some of the kits that I use where I added a column to shoe how much meat was left based on tube size and bushing size. It helps me when casting embedded objects. Here it is for anyone that may be interested.

View attachment 133746

Cool spreadsheet Cody!! Looks like a scene from one of the Matrix movies of all computer code :tongue::tongue::tongue:.

But, I'm not good with code!!! :tongue:

Oops, looks like something is getting mixed up in translation. Pm me your email address if you want a copy of the spreadsheet.

 

[builtbybill]

I did a spreadsheet for some of the kits that I use where I added a column to shoe how much meat was left based on tube size and bushing size. It helps me when casting embedded objects. Here it is for anyone that may be interested.

View attachment 133746

Cool spreadsheet Cody!! Looks like a scene from one of the Matrix movies of all computer code :tongue::tongue::tongue:.

But, I'm not good with code!!! :tongue:

Oops, looks like something is getting mixed up in translation. Pm me your email address if you want a copy of the spreadsheet.

Cody, I hope you do not mind I changed it to an office '97-2003 sheet instead of newer version and I think this might help some people to open it.

 

[Cwalker935]

Thanks Bill

 

[Cwalker935]

If you use my spreadsheet, pleas ignore or delete the second sheet. I did not mean to share that.

Thanks

 

[Janster]

Smitty's V2's is the answer! Smaller tube but same OD = more room for the build. Of course, this is for a single barreled pen!

 

[Bill in Buena Park]

Tony, the Curvados I posted in SOYP is fairly beefy - if you use the bushing as a guide for the center near the band, its a hair over 1/8in thick there, as shown below (its an 8mm tube).

 

[wob50]

I would like one if possible
Thanks
Robert

 

[jsolie]

I think there might be an issue with a formula in that spreadsheet.

You're calculating "Meat" as being the difference between the "F" (bushing) diameter and the "E" tube internal diameter.

Shouldn't it be the difference between "F" (bushing diameter) and "B" Tube diameter?

The letter designations are taken from the excellent "Bushings and Tubes" documents from the library.

 

[Cwalker935]

Hopefully, I can get it right this time. Here is the cleaned up spreadsheet

View attachment tubes and bushings.xls

 

[TonyL]

Good stuff! Thank you. The intention of my post and poll was to measure the interest in the design of using kits, similar to thoses offered today, but with more material. I didn't clearly state my question - my fault. This may clarify:

Let's look a Jr G2, but with narrower brass tubes (still wide enough to accommodate a Parker-style or RB refill), but the same overall outside diameter (at least where the ends of the material meet the hardware).

I am going to check out some of the kits that were referenced - thank you. I just think there is "room" in the market for kits with heavier walls. Not complaining - I was interested in the thoughts of others. Remember, I have only been making pens for 14 months; I am definitely no "original thinker". This may have been thought about and worked-through before and determined to be a poor idea. Anyway...enjoy the rest of a beautiful Sunday for those on this side of the pond. .

 

[SkewedUp]

Not only for casting, but also for the laser inlay kits - sometimes you can loose some detail (or worse) on thin kits. I suppose that is why you see them turned "fat" sometimes, but that style does not appeal to me personally.

I think what most of us would like to see is not necessarily new pen kits with more "meat" on the tubes...how about re-designing the existing kits to use smaller tubes. Parker and Rollerball refills fit just fine in an 8mm tube.

And while we are wishing here, how about the tubes are all the same diameter when the pen kits get re-designed. I have so many different bushing sets and hate having to buy another set when I want to try out a new pen kit. I'd settle for a standard size of 10mm tubes for all rollerball and Parker refill pen kits.

 

[chartle]

I did a spreadsheet for some of the kits that I use where I added a column to shoe how much meat was left based on tube size and bushing size. It helps me when casting embedded objects. Here it is for anyone that may be interested.

View attachment 133746

Cool spreadsheet Cody!! Looks like a scene from one of the Matrix movies of all computer code :tongue::tongue::tongue:.

But, I'm not good with code!!! :tongue:

Oops, looks like something is getting mixed up in translation. Pm me your email address if you want a copy of the spreadsheet.

Just downloaded it and opened it just fine.

But OP I found this kit at Rockler. Its pretty meaty but its a weird design. What I do is look at the bushings and look for the thickest ones.

Top Long Style Chrome Pen Turning Hardware Kit | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

 

[Smitty37]

Weight....

Finished Sierra vs finished Le Roi V2. Sierra 1.3 oz Le Roi V2 1.4 oz on a postal scale both turned in wood with very very close to the same finished diameter.

What this is implying to me is that weight will not really be much of a factor if going a little smaller diameter on the tube and a little thicker on the blank material.

I see bigger issues with the threaded caps on the larger pens where you probably just can't change the tube size without some redesign.

 

[Smitty37]

Tony, the Curvados I posted in SOYP is fairly beefy - if you use the bushing as a guide for the center near the band, its a hair over 1/8in thick there, as shown below (its an 8mm tube).

If the top tube is 8mm it isn't a Curvado (at least not a PSI Curvado) it is more likely The Graduate which as a 7mm bottom tube and an 8mm top tube...the Curvado is 7mm all the way.

 

[TonyL]

"I think what most of us would like to see is not necessarily new pen kits with more "meat" on the tubes...how about re-designing the existing kits to use smaller tubes. Parker and Rollerball refills fit just fine in an 8mm tube."






That is exactly what I am talking about.


Thank you for succinctly phrasing it.

 

[Smitty37]

I think I understand what you are saying Tony, I just want to point out that isn't a minor undertaking. Let me talk just about the Jr Gent 1, and just the front end of that. There is a coupler that is threaded both internally and externally the internal female threads are where the front end attaches and the external male threads are where the cap attaches.

To go to a smaller tube, you have to make that coupler smaller. To make that coupler smaller you will probably have to make both the front end and the cap (including the clip/finial smaller and that will affect both the RB and FP versions. So you have to essentially re-engineer everything in the kit salvaging only the refills and refill springs...FP Ink converters would also be affected.

If it was easy for a two bbl rollerball I'd have done it when I did the Le Roi V2 where the only things that had to be changed were the size of a couple of presse in parts...which is fairly easy. That is why there are actually a lot of single bbl kits now which are using 3/8th tubes but use bushings sized like sierra's such as the Polaris and the Le Roi Royale. These kits already give more "meat".

 

[edstreet]

I prefer my meat to stay off my pens for one. Not only is it a salmonella risk it's also unsanitary.

 

[Smitty37]

These might work for you

wrong thread....

 

[TonyL]

That's why I prefer the Le Roi Royale over many of the other single tube 3/8 pens.

 

[Bill in Buena Park]

Tony, the Curvados I posted in SOYP is fairly beefy - if you use the bushing as a guide for the center near the band, its a hair over 1/8in thick there, as shown below (its an 8mm tube).

If the top tube is 8mm it isn't a Curvado (at least not a PSI Curvado) it is more likely The Graduate which as a 7mm bottom tube and an 8mm top tube...the Curvado is 7mm all the way.

I'm pretty sure its 8mm (mine are, and seems to indicate so at the PSI website Curvado Chrome Twist Pen Kit at Penn State Industries), and it takes the Parker style refill.

Maybe you're thinking of the Concava - that is definitely 7mm / Cross all the way.

 

[dogcatcher]

I make the Slimlines with the Comfort center bands, or a custom middle band. This allows for a larger diameter pen. I rarely sell, I give most of my pens away, I let the recipient choose the pen out of a selection that I have made. It has been over a year since someone took one of the "generic" Slimline pens. I get the bands from Wood N Whimsies, it adds about .71 cents to my giveaway cost.

Comfort Pen Center Band

 

[Smitty37]

I make the Slimlines with the Comfort center bands, or a custom middle band. This allows for a larger diameter pen. I rarely sell, I give most of my pens away, I let the recipient choose the pen out of a selection that I have made. It has been over a year since someone took one of the "generic" Slimline pens. I get the bands from Wood N Whimsies, it adds about .71 cents to my giveaway cost.

Comfort Pen Center Band

Why not just buy comforts? I think most places there isn't even that much difference in price from slimlines. They still get pretty thin at the tip and cap ends.