Best of IAP Contest Questions

[Scott]

We are holding a little contest later this summer in conjunction with Woodturning Design Magazine. We have come up with four categories, which are: Casting, Segmenting, Kitless and Open class. I have the rules written for this contest, but I have a couple of questions on some of the categories.

In the "Casting" category, should the casting be done by the individual submitting the pen, or should they be allowed to purchase the cast blanks?

Same for the Segmenting category, should the penmaker produce the segmented blank or can they be allowed to purchase all or part of the blank?

In the kitless category, should we allow as many kit parts as they want as long as they aren't visible, or should we limit the kit parts to only a few certain parts? If so, which parts should we limit it to? My idea is to allow any kit parts as long as none are visible when the pen is closed, with the exception of a clip.

Other comments on this contest are gladly accepted, although I have a relatively short time to get this done. Thanks!

Scott.

 

[turbowagon]

My thoughts:

- casting should be done by the contest entrant

- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant

- kitless: either approach sounds reasonable. Whatever you decide should be fine.

- open: anything goes. Perhaps limit it to kit pens though, since there is already a kitless category.

 

[witz1976]

I agree with Joe's comments.

 

[Drstrangefart]

My thoughts:

- casting should be done by the contest entrant

- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant

- kitless: either approach sounds reasonable. Whatever you decide should be fine.

- open: anything goes. Perhaps limit it to kit pens though, since there is already a kitless category.

I totally agree.

 

[MarkD]

My thoughts:

- casting should be done by the contest entrant

- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant

- kitless: either approach sounds reasonable. Whatever you decide should be fine.

- open: anything goes. Perhaps limit it to kit pens though, since there is already a kitless category.

I totally agree with each of these answers

 

[IPD_Mr]

I think Joe is spot on with his post.

I have to say Joe is pretty sharp for his age. :biggrin:

 

[Padre]

I agree with Joe.

 

[Manny]

Joe you are like a seer!
I agree
Manny

 

[omb76]

My thoughts:

- casting should be done by the contest entrant

- segmenting should be done by the contest entrant

- kitless: either approach sounds reasonable. Whatever you decide should be fine.

- open: anything goes. Perhaps limit it to kit pens though, since there is already a kitless category.

Definitely agree as well.

 

[Andrew_K99]

No need to restate what Joe hit on the head with his answer.

AK

 

[ed4copies]

Depends!!!

You want more or fewer entries?

If you allow "non-casters" to purchase blanks, you will have more entries---probably a GOOD thing. On the other hand, you will have more than one person (conceivably) showing the same blank, cast by the same person (a problem??)

Same thing with the segmenting: 3 guys could all purchase a beautiful herringbone (all made by the same talented "bone guy"). This gives you three times as many entrants (a good thing), but makes your judges throw out the herringbone, since you can't have three tied winners.

So, the last consideration: Will the talented blank-makers choose to enter a pen, made from their masterpieces??? If so, the best of the best will come out.

If not---a "second rate" entry could win.

I don't wanna be a judge!!!!!

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Just to be a PITA, I disagree , no I agree, no I disagree,no I agree.
Alkl kidding aside Joe hit the nail flush on the head...

 

[BRobbins629]

Agree with 1 and 2. Personally I think open and kitless should be combined into 1 category called open - anything goes. No definitions or subjectivity required.

 

[mredburn]

I also agree on 1 and 2 this encourages and rewards those that make these Items themselves. Are you trying to encourage the advancement of pen making with these contests or just participation? If you limit the entries to self made, you encourage the participants to stretch their abilities to compete. IF kitless I would recommend limiting the kit parts to nib feed assemblies and refills. In open I think it should be defined as "Thats a pen?" this would be a great category for pens that don't look like the standard pen shape. For example rockets, planes, cannons, feathers, trombone parts. etc.

For participation I would add a general beautiful pen category open to those that make pens from components they have chosen. (You notice I didn't say kits:biggrin

 

[ed4copies]

What about transmissions? For the kitless---or do we assume everyone will do rollerballs or fountains?

 

[mredburn]

Oooops forgot about transmissions. OF course no one says they have to be functional after they are made.

 

[ed4copies]

IF anyone makes ballpoints, there will be a number of "hidden components"---but then, for kitless---do we need ballpoints?

In fact, for CONTESTS, do we need ballpoints?? SHOULD creativity be channeled toward the "high end", thus eliminating ballpoints???

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I think that one should cast his/her own blanks - that way, the caster of the feather blanks (for example) could enter his own product without worrying about twenty people also submitting what is essentially his work.

Make it entirely self-created, and then you'll see a lot of neat entries, I think!

Andrew

 

[MartinPens]

I also agree on 1 and 2 this encourages and rewards those that make these Items themselves. Are you trying to encourage the advancement of pen making with these contests or just participation? If you limit the entries to self made, you encourage the participants to stretch their abilities to compete. IF kitless I would recommend limiting the kit parts to nib feed assemblies and refills. In open I think it should be defined as "Thats a pen?" this would be a great category for pens that don't look like the standard pen shape. For example rockets, planes, cannons, feathers, trombone parts. etc.

For participation I would add a general beautiful pen category open to those that make pens from components they have chosen. (You notice I didn't say kits:biggrin

I like Joe's comments and also Mikes.
I like the idea of having kitless include closed pens with no parts showing apart from the clip. That opens it up a little more to those who don't have the ability yet to do their own threading. I have to admit that I like this for selfish reasons! : ) I would enter a pen in this category in this case. Also on the last category - open - I don't think requiring it to use a kit is really very "open." Keep it as open as possible. This is the "out of the box" category. Require the pen to be functional.

I hope you will post more details on this contest here in this thread as time goes on. I will subscribe to the thread and keep my eyes open as I read the magazine. I love the challenge of a good contest - it inspires me and motivates me to get the juices flowing.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

 

[G1Pens]

I go with the flow...I go with Joe

 

[Andrew_K99]

I think the term kitless REALLY needs to be defined. I've seen quite a few pens that IMO aren't as kitless as stated. They're highly modified kits.

AK

 

[mredburn]

Do we need ball points? no. Should we eliminate them from the contests? again no. You could have a fountain pen only category or sub category but where do you draw the line on how many subcategories are you going to have. We all like to win but to make winning mean something it has to be the best of the best and not devalued by giving everybody that enters a blue ribbon for participation. Part of these decisions will be decide by the direction and focus of the contest. I realize time is short and it would be hard to build a contest that had both a generalized pretty pen with lots of subcategories for the people who make pens from components and a down and dirty competition of the best of the best. Personally will support which ever way it goes down. the only way to lose would be to not have one or not participate when they do. I am taking it for granted that this contest will be open to people other than members of the IAP. That we are simply hosting it.

 

[Monty]

In the "Casting" category, should the casting be done by the individual submitting the pen, or should they be allowed to purchase the cast blanks?

Like the others, I think it should be made by the person making the pen, but how will you verify this? Hope no two use the same blank?

Same for the Segmenting category, should the penmaker produce the segmented blank or can they be allowed to purchase all or part of the blank?

Same thoughts as above.

In the kitless category, should we allow as many kit parts as they want as long as they aren't visible, or should we limit the kit parts to only a few certain parts? If so, which parts should we limit it to? My idea is to allow any kit parts as long as none are visible when the pen is closed, with the exception of a clip.

If you allow any part that does not show, then you essentially have a closed end pen, not a kitless pen.

 

[ldb2000]

I agree with Joe on 1 and 2 . To answer Ed's comment on the kitless I think that Ballpoints should be allowed . As many here know I make more ballpoints then fountain pens . In my area fountain pens just don't sell , most people around here are in the contracting and medical fields and fountain pens just aren't an option for these people . I know I'm not alone in this . I find that making an exceptional ballpoint pen is much more challenging then a fountain pen but the difficulty involved is very under appreciated .
As for the Open category , I think it should be just that , Open to ALL . It should be judged on more then just beauty though . Personally I like the idea of combining the kitless and open into one category and judging it on several levels such as , Kitless , Modified kit , Beauty and Technical difficulty .

 

[KenV]

Scott --- the answer depends on what you are trying to measure --

If the creation of cast blanks is the objective to be measured you get perhaps a different answer than an objective of getting the best quality workmanship on a custom cast blank. There is a possiblity that the caster is a premier pen builder, but there is also a pretty good chance you will have some very talented casting folks who are not as good at penmaking.

Are you going to allow casting to include those who build on tubes and then over cast?? or just those who mix and blend colors and materials?

Contests are a tricky topic --- what are the real objectives and the limits??

 

[Scott]

Hi Everybody! Thanks for the great responses!

When I was writing the rules for this contest, I had to establish some kind of definition about what fit in each of the categories. It would help if I let you know what those are:

Casting – Any and all pens where any amount of casting of some type of polymer compound is used in the making of the pen, including color or mixed color casts, clear casts, items or materials inside or mixed in with the casting material, and hybrid casts where the casting material is only a part of the material the pen is made from.

Segmenting – Any and all pens where any amount of segmenting of any kind is used in producing the blank, including all segmenting, laminating, stacked, layering, inlays, mixed-media glue-ups, and incorporating any materials.

Kitless – Any and all pens produced from any material that includes a minimal amount of kit parts. When closed, the only visible kit part allowed is a clip, but may or may not be included. Any other kit parts may be used as long as they are not visible when the pen is closed.

Open Class – Any and all pens produced from any material. Pens can be any shape, style, size, weight or produced by any means or method of work, but must be made by the individual submitting the pen, and should be able to write. Any kit or no kit may be used. Any material may be used. Any method of production may be used.

I think I will require, for the casting and the segmenting, that the work be done by the pen maker who is entering the pen. The reason I asked is because there are some people who do a great job of casting, but may not be the best penturners, as well as great penturners who may not be very good at casting. Same with segmenting.

I am at a loss on what to require for the kitless pens. We may need to allow a refill and transmission for ball pens, and a nib/feed assembly for fountain pens. But we can restrict it to only these things and nothing else. We want to push the envelope on this contest, given that, how much or how little for the kitless category?

I believe the Open category should truly be open. Pretty much anything goes. I picture this category for those pens that don't necessarily fit anywhere else. Although a kit pen could win this if it is good enough.

As for the question about requiring them to be a member to join the contest, it is an IAP contest, and it doesn't cost anything to join the IAP.

We have been discussing charging an entry fee for this contest. If we did, the money would be used for prizes. What do you think?

Scott.

 

[MartinPens]

I think I'm going to agree with Monty and go back on what I said about kitless. I don't make kitless pens yet, and I think if it is called kitless then that should be distinguished from closed end pens with hidden parts. Just my two cents.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

 

[soligen]

I'm on board with everyone except the kitless. Given the other categories, I think the kitless category should be truely kitless with the only exception being the nib/feed/feed holder for FP, the refill for RB, refill & tranmisson for a BP.

For me the clip is the hardest part of going kitless, so I just dont think it's right to judge together pens with kit clips to those with clips made by the pen maker.

 

[skiprat]

I also think Joe hit the nail on the head.

This sounds like a lot of fun and Scott, I really hope you host it as I think it will do IAP a lot of good right now.:wink:

Will entrants be allowed to enter more than one category with the same pen?

Say for instance that I have a pretty cool home cast and want to put it on a kitless pen, will I be able to enter both?

This really sounds like a lot of fun and I'm really looking forward to participating. :biggrin:

 

[Phunky_2003]

I was about to ask the same question as Steve. Can we enter same pen in multiple categories?

 

[skiprat]

We have been discussing charging an entry fee for this contest. If we did, the money would be used for prizes. What do you think?

Scott.

I think this would be great idea. A nominal amount for the 'standard' class and perhaps a little more for the truely kitless open class?
Although I would be happy to pay between $50 - $100 to enter a serious kitless contest.
Prizes to suit.
I assume that if the money raised would be used for purchasing prizes then this contest wouldn't be riddled with ads?
I also think that if we pay an admission charge then no mention of where the kit or the blank was bought would be good. And as with other similar contests, the pen should never have been seen or discussed on another site before.

 

[PR_Princess]

I was about to ask the same question as Steve. Can we enter same pen in multiple categories?

Then potentially one pen could win all four categories???

 

[bitshird]

I agree with every one on page one!!

 

[Phunky_2003]

I was about to ask the same question as Steve. Can we enter same pen in multiple categories?

Then potentially one pen could win all four categories???

Well I wasn't thinking one pen could cover all 4 categories. But if the same pen is entered in the casting category then can it be enter in the open category or kit less category?

I haven't enter too many pen contests, but have in scrolling. I have had the same piece win advanced, overall and best of show.

Something that may need to be addressed for the rules....

 

[philb]

Joes sounds pretty good!!

Definately in for the segmenting, and always fancy being a caster!!

 

[BRobbins629]

We have been discussing charging an entry fee for this contest. If we did, the money would be used for prizes. What do you think?

Scott.

My vote is for no prizes other than the glory of being published in the magazine. Poll time?

 

[mredburn]

There is alot to be said for charging to enter the contest. It will get serious real quick. You have all sorts of options . YOu could have both paid entries into some of the contests with serious prizes/cash awards and you could have an open to everyone contest that just got you puglished as the winner and a ribbon or small plaque to hang on the wall. It doesnt matter to me which way it goes. its al good.

 

[skiprat]

I was about to ask the same question as Steve. Can we enter same pen in multiple categories?

Then potentially one pen could win all four categories???

Yes, if it entered all four categories, then 'potentially' it could win all four categories. But if it only entered 'multiple' catergories, ie 1, 2, or 3, then of course it couldn't win all four categories:tongue:

But then it would have to be one helluva pen !!!:biggrin:

 

[alphageek]

Ok.. Scott - here is some of my thoughts:

1) Make sure you rules are solid.. Misinterpretation of the rules could cause some headaches. (not saying their not, just saying be sure)
2) Paying for entry raises new issues:
A) Chicken and egg problem with prizes (How much do you raise, and what prizes are offered? What happens if the prizes are over the raised $$?, etc)
B) Paying for entry raises the stakes in some minds
3) Who is judging? There very well can be bias there (one small example, look at the last contest - how many were slimlines and there is alot of anti-slimline these days... Even with Russ Fairfield, many don't look at them in the same way)
4) How is submission going to work? Will it be a blind submission? IE will the judges know who submitted each pen?

Just some things to thing about!

 

[IPD_Mr]

There are some on here that would not pay to enter a pen as they are VERY modest about their work, when in fact it is outstanding. Scott if you are going to run with this send me a PM. Linda and I would be glad to donate some decent prizes.