Work in Progress: WWI Albatros DV Pen

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Flush1974

Flush1974

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
80
Location
St Petersburg, Florida USA
Guten Tag Meine Damen und Herren,

So I'm diving into a pen that is challenging every skill that I have and a few I'm going to have to learn to make this pen. I have been working with model aircraft since I was a kid. On some of the modeling forums they have a Work in Progress thread where you can watch artisans do some amazing things, it also provides crowdsourcing critiques and suggestions. So I'm taking a chance here because I need some of your great knowledge to help make this dream pen of mine a reality.

So what is the goal? Make pen that resembles the WWI Albatros DV aircraft below.

albatros.jpg


This first post will help catch you up to where I am so far. I took some parts from a full-size Gent Series pen because the shape and components lead to customizing due to the two modular finishings. I also took parts from an Albatros aircraft kit and a Spandau machine gun model kit.

Cap finishing with the nose cone of the Albatros (temporary set in place with clay). I used silicon to create a negative cast and then cast it with jewelers wax.

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German Spandau Machine gun (which will be part of the pen clip) being placed into molding putty so I can cast in in wax for lost wax casting.

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Uper and lower tubes with the Wood and Bavarian decals in place.

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Some of the items I'm using to try to cast molds.


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I know this won't be perfect, I'm nowhere near the artisans you guys are on here. So here are some of the issues I'm running into:

My wax positives are smaller than the original by quite a bit. So when I go to do lost wax casting with Aluminum the parts will be even smaller. I am beginning to think I will have to create the finishings first and see the tube sizes after. The other option is to maybe to have someone create the finishings on their metal lathe for me, but I'm really trying to do this myself and I don't have a metal lathe, nor do I have the skills it takes to craft with such precision.

What am I doing wrong with the wax process? I know when things cool they shrink; there hast to be something I can do to solve the "shrinkage" after it cools (so to speak).
 
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I think you are nuts trying a project like this, but man I like it.
Have you considered precious metal clay? There is a shrinkage factor but if you can shape it by hand and sculpting tools do allow for that then you end up with the size you're aiming for. Also needs another toy to cook it with but maybe you already have that.

Private message mredburn. He runs Silver Pen Parts and can help with advise or make pieces for you.
 
Its funny you say that about the precious metal clay, I bought my wife a whole precious metal clay kit for Christmas. I did think about the PMC but I want to paint the nose cone like in the picture so I didn't want to waste good silver just to be painted over. It might be a great option for the end final as I was going to leave it polished aluminum anyways.

So my next thought was to order some Gold Ferris wax and put it on my lathe in a collet and try to shape it just like the whole nose piece. Then I can use the lost wax process to cast the aluminum. Its just taking me a bit to figure out how to make all of the pieces I want and make it work.

I bought a WWI Iron Cross ribbon to embellish the "tail" finish. Adding those to a turned wax end finish should be extremely easy.

The Spandau is going to be interesting to work with to make a pen clip. I've been thinking I was just going to use the one gun, but the other option is to cast the front cowling with the engine and two smaller guns to be more authentic. I've been working on this for a week. I know pens are supposed to be quick and "easy" but this challenge is a ton of fun.

Thanks for the idea of using the PMC, I wouldn't have thought about using it in the "tail" finish unless you said something.
 
If you don't need "real" solid metal parts, you could consider using cold casting techniques. Instead of casting wax to use make your plaster mold to cast hot liquid metal, you could directly create your "metal" part using the mixture of PR and atomized aluminum in your wax mold. If done correctly, the look can be very close to solid metal with good strength.

The other possible advantage is that you could cast hollow parts using other metals than aluminum (e.g. bronze, copper, brass, iron) without picking up the large weight gain you would get with a solid metal casting or a machined part.

Don't need a lot of specialized equipment to try this. Atomized metals are readily available. They do require careful handling. You wouldn't want to inadvertently end with some sort of thermite type reaction turning your shop to ash.

Ed
 
Ed McDonnell said:
If you don't need "real" solid metal parts, you could consider using cold casting techniques. Instead of casting wax to use make your plaster mold to cast hot liquid metal, you could directly create your "metal" part using the mixture of PR and atomized aluminum in your wax mold. If done correctly, the look can be very close to solid metal with good strength.

The other possible advantage is that you could cast hollow parts using other metals than aluminum (e.g. bronze, copper, brass, iron) without picking up the large weight gain you would get with a solid metal casting or a machined part.

Don't need a lot of specialized equipment to try this. Atomized metals are readily available. They do require careful handling. You wouldn't want to inadvertently end with some sort of thermite type reaction turning your shop to ash.

Ed
Click to expand...

Cold Casting is BRILLIANT! So the resin will have some weight and durability and can be painted.

The Spandau will need to be lost wax cast due to the durability and strength issues.

You guys are great!!!! I'll post some more updates tomorrow, hopefully with a wax cast Spandau and the Iron Crosses I intend to use.
 
Cold casting should be safe enough so long as you keep metal dust and metal oxides separated, plus you keep heat sources well enough away from your project. In fact, the most dangerous aspect of the cold casting is accidentally breathing in the metallic dust! Use a dust mask for sure!


Also .... mix your resin first, then slowly add a bit of metal dust at a time till you get the look you desire. Trying to pour your mixed resin into a container of metal dust is an exercise in futility, as the dry dust will clump up and never really want to spread throughout the mix.


Make a master mold using the cross and some type of latex or silicone, and then use that to make your wax copies ....

Link multiple wax copies together using wax bars/pipes in order to allow the molten metal to flow between all of them ... using a large reservoir to properly maintain molten metal at temperature will allow you to make your castings with as little shrinkage as possible.... From barely molten to "safe to handle in bare hands" temperatures, aluminum will shrink approximately 8%. Coating your model guns and parts with a few thin layers of CA ought to make up for the difference.
 
Skie_M said:
Cold casting should be safe enough so long as you keep metal dust and metal oxides separated, plus you keep heat sources well enough away from your project. In fact, the most dangerous aspect of the cold casting is accidentally breathing in the metallic dust! Use a dust mask for sure!


Also .... mix your resin first, then slowly add a bit of metal dust at a time till you get the look you desire. Trying to pour your mixed resin into a container of metal dust is an exercise in futility, as the dry dust will clump up and never really want to spread throughout the mix.


Make a master mold using the cross and some type of latex or silicone, and then use that to make your wax copies ....

Link multiple wax copies together using wax bars/pipes in order to allow the molten metal to flow between all of them ... using a large reservoir to properly maintain molten metal at temperature will allow you to make your castings with as little shrinkage as possible.... From barely molten to "safe to handle in bare hands" temperatures, aluminum will shrink approximately 8%. Coating your model guns and parts with a few thin layers of CA ought to make up for the difference.
Click to expand...

Boy, am I learning so much from you guys! I never took chemistry in school, Business Major. I had to google Thermite yesterday AFTER I ordered Aluminum and Iron powder. So I've got it now, keep both of those things a 100 yards apart.

Skie,

On the wax molding topic: I took my metal kit part and added the nose cone as you saw above. I used Smooth-on to make a latex mold and it turned out great. I then go to melt the wax into the mold, every came out almost as I expected, except the "shrinkage" of the wax part. I would say it's 10-15% smaller than the original. So today I cast it in resin and had no shrinkage. How do I make wax parts that are the right size for lost wax casting? I assume I have to carve them to look the way I desire then lost wax cast them in plaster for metal casting. Is that correct?
 
Flush1974 said:
On the wax molding topic: I took my metal kit part and added the nose cone as you saw above. I used Smooth-on to make a latex mold and it turned out great. I then go to melt the wax into the mold, every came out almost as I expected, except the "shrinkage" of the wax part. I would say it's 10-15% smaller than the original. So today I cast it in resin and had no shrinkage. How do I make wax parts that are the right size for lost wax casting? I assume I have to carve them to look the way I desire then lost wax cast them in plaster for metal casting. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

What most of us would do for your prop spinner would be to take an aluminium bar and put it in our lathe and then turn it and polish it on the lathe. Search the forum starting with the library for turning finials and you'll see how it is don in wood and plastics. You can work aluminium in a wood lathe so no need to get a metal version. We would do the same for any cap or barrel that is round and cylindrical like the fuselage. Stuff like the guns you can take aluminium and shape it with files, rotary files, drills, sandpaper etc. You only have a pair to do so it won't take forever. :wink:

Or you make your wax parts 10 to 15% bigger than you want to finish at. A gun barrel 2.20" long in wax becomes 2.0" cast. The diameter .110" wax becomes .100" cast. Basically you scale everything up the shrinkage amount. Kind of like scaling an aircraft for a model only backwards.
 
Today's Update

So I switched from wax to resin for the nose cone and the loss was only .20mm very tolerable. This one looks good but there is still some work to be done and I found an air bubble that I just didn't swirl around the resin in the mold enough so easy enough when I cast it later if that is the route I take.


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This is a real WWI Iron Cross Ribbon I will use the cross for casting on the tail finish I currently have in silicon casting until tomorrow.


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Thanks for all the help you guys. There is still a long way to go, so stay tuned.
 
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