work bench and tool advice

[CaptainJane]

Hello all

I am about to join your ranks, and buy my first lathe. I am a novice model ship builder, and want to use the lathe eventually to add more detail to my models. Pens look like a great way to acquire some skills, and have a ton of fun too.

1. I plan to buy a Jet 1221 VS (unless someone here can convince me something else is better), and need a bench or stand to put the lathe on. My "shop" is about 10'x 10', and has no cabinets or benches - just walls and floor. I am 5'-06" tall, and am considering getting the Harbor Freight bench w/4 drawers, or perhaps a work-mate. However, the Harbor Freight bench may be a little too tall.

For the Harbor Freight bench - Is it difficuly to shorten the legs on this bench?
What is involved?

Other not-too-expensive suggestions for bench or stand?

I work on ships out of the country, and am home for only 3-1/2 week spurts, so I do not have time for much DIY fabrication. I am trying to do my shopping from afar, so I wil be ready when I get home this time or the next.

2. The local store really pushes the carbide replaceable blade tools. Is it advisable to take that easy route, or better to buy quality traditional tools?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

JBS

 

[plantman]

Welcome Jane !! Let's start with the bench. One of my benches is from Harbor Freight. This bench is solid maple, has four nice lined drawers on slides, comes with a very good vice, pre drilled holes in the top for bench dogs (included), finished, and is easy to put together as everything is predrilled and taped with easy to follow instructions. Makes a solid heavy bench with a lot of working room. I have installed locking wheels on mine so I can move it at will. If you want to cut it down a bit, mark all the legs and cut before assembly. Watch when it goes on sale (usualy $139.95) and use a 25% off coupon bringing it down to just over $100. You could not buy the lumber and hardware for this amount, let alone build it. As to a lathe. I have large, small, and mini lathes. Each one serves it's own special need. If you are going to make pens and ships,I would take a look at some of the Mini Metal lathes. Perfect for both pens and miniture ships, plus you have the advantage of being able to turn small metal parts with precision for your models and pens. Turning tools. Delta makes sets of both mini, miniture, and full size tools. Carbide may be a little overkill for what you are going to turn at this point of time. I work a lot using adjustable chairs at my benches to keep from getting back pains from standing for long lengths of time. No matter what hobby you take up, a good solid bench will always come in handy. If you need more help or suggestions, just ask, someone here will have ideas and suggestions. Also use the library on this site for extra help. Jim S

 

[Woodkiller]

Get the rubber mats to stand on and then see if the top is still too high. That might be all you need and your legs & feet will thank you later.

 

[JasonC]

I saw this recently at Home Depot and thought it might work for an all-in-one small lathe station.

Husky 46 in. 9-Drawer Mobile Workbench with Solid Wood Top-7440946 at The Home Depot

 

[Charlie_W]

Welcome from Virginia!
The normal ideal height for your lathe is when the lathe centers are at elbow height when you stand beside it.

Good luck!

 

[low_48]

I'm not a fan of the carbide insert tools. I read a lot of folks on here complaining about blowing up blanks, knocking coffee beans out of blanks, and other misc problems with scraping with a piece of carbide. I would recommend an oval skew or a 3/4" roughing gouge. The gouge will easily knock off the corners, and if you rotate it right and lead with an angle position, it will almost mimic the skew. Almost. I'd never mount a lathe on wheels. You might get by turning only pens, but sooner or latter you will want to turn something bigger. I've not seen the HF bench. Sorry I can't help with the shortening of the legs. I've also found recommendations made by salesman to be limiting at best, plain wrong at worst. Ask here first, we are people that actually use the tools.

 

[Bill in Buena Park]

I have the HF bench, and it is only ~2 inches higher than the top of my lathe bench, I could likely use it, but I'm 6 ft, so you may need adjust. IIRC, the leg units are pre-assembled, two legs attached to a top piece that fastens to the benchtop, and bottom piece that is the foot - I don't recall if just screwed, or if also glued, but you'd have to remove the bottom or top piece to shorten. If you don't want to reposition the drawer unit, you may want to cut from the bottom of the legs, but there's a lower shelf that acts as a brace that you likely don't want to get too close to the floor or you'll lose toe-kick area (unless you raise the shelf).

 

[CaptainJane]

keep those replies coming!

Thanks for the replies so far.

As far as tools are concerned, I always remember that when I worked for a boat dealership, they pushed the boat trailer with the highest profit margin, not the best quality. I am sure others do the same, so - you are right - ask IAP first.

Thanks, and keep those replies coming.

Jane

 

[wwneko]

I've been using the harbor freight bench and I'm 1 inch taller than you. IT'S TOO TALL with the jet1221VS, fine with some of the other mini lathes. It's about 6-7 inches too tall in fact. It wouldn't be too hard to cut the legs down during assembly, but too much work for me to take it apart after the fact. I just got my 1221 2 weeks ago, I've been turning with it even though it's too high. My plan is to build a simple platform, it will not only get me to the proper height (whatever that is...) but it will also be much easier on the feet/backthan the concrete floor.

 

[Wildman]

Think a Jet 1221 perfect lathe for what you want to do with it.

I bought a metal tool stand with splayed legs & top at Harbor Freight for my belt 4" x 36" belt sander and added wheels and bottom shelf and it should be just fine for your new lathe. Without wheels 31" high and 33" with wheels, my table measure 18" x 20". You would need to add a longer top to fit your Jet 1221. Tried finding that stand it at their web site and had no luck. They do have wheeled carts but advise no looking at those because did not see locking wheels or splayed legs.

This morning found this lathe stand you would need to add a top. You could also add a bottom shelf if want to later.

Wood Lathe Stand

You can also buy a HSS spindle set of tools there too which runs about $60. There are better tools than that but startng out not bad to learn with.

 

[walshjp17]

My wife bought me a Jet 1221VS a while back and I wanted to get the perfect stand for it. I ended up getting a steel workbench from Lowe's following a few weeks of research on proper dimensions. After assembling the WB and putting the lathe on it, I discovered it was too tall by about 4" for me (I'm 5'7"). To solve this problem I got a pallet, cut the width down and put a HF comfort pad on it and it is now at the proper height for me.

So, if you find something you like, you can either cut it down, build it up or use a pallet to bring it up to your ideal height - as noted, elbow even with the headstock spindle.

 

[dankc908]

I saw this recently at Home Depot and thought it might work for an all-in-one small lathe station.

Husky 46 in. 9-Drawer Mobile Workbench with Solid Wood Top-7440946 at The Home Depot

I bought that one for my lathe when I remodeled my shop and I love it!:biggrin:

 

[shastastan]

I like Wildman's suggestion for the table. For the top I would recommend a double thickness of 3/4" MDF. I had a similar stand for my Jet 1642 lathe. I made a plywood box for the bottom, 4" inside, which I filled with play sand and covered with 1/4" plywood. It helped with vibration and stability. That made a nice bottom shelf. You can also put a shelf on the cross braces. If you get the Jet 1221 know that the threaded mounting holes are in the bottom of the legs of the lathe Take care in laying out those holes before drilling for the mounting bolts.

As another person said take a measurement of your bent arm to the floor also get a measurement of the center of the lathe (chuck spur to live center line) to the bottom of the lathe feet. Deduct the lathe measurment from your personal measurement and that will give you the height of the lathe table to the floor. That's how I determined how tall to make my table cabinet. If you buy the HF lathe table, you can get some of those stearlite plastic drawers to put on the shelves of the lathe table. When I had my other lathe, I added wheels to the back side and a U bolt to the front. I made a lever lift with a hook and wheels so that I could move the lathe around if necessary. I don't use that setup now though.

Glad you're enjoying ship models. I have a kit or 2 and hope to make them some day if I can tear myself away from the lathe.

 

[plano_harry]

Hi Jane, welcome from Plano!

I agree with lathe centerline at elbow height as previously suggested.

No need to buy a bunch of cutting tools. I only use carbides and have taught 8 yr olds to turn using them without any difficulty or blanks blowing up. It is a sharp replaceable edge that you don't have to buy a bunch of equipment and learn yet another skill to obtain. Your choice of curved edge, radiused edge or nearly square. You can use a carbide tool on an angle as a skew, our use it flat as a scraper. Edges are about 65 cents each and will turn several pens.

No problems with wood or acrylic. Use it as a skew for rounding. You have total control over how aggressive you want your cut to be. I only lay it down flat for very fine scraping on my final passes. For pen turning, I literally use one single tool (4" radius square cutter) presented as needed to get the cut I want -- inside/outside curves, v-cuts, or straight cuts. I pick up a parting tool occasionally. That's it.

 

[shastastan]

i agree with everything that Harry said. I have traditional lathe tools and also some carbide tools. I use both. For me the carbide tools are very controllable, but go slow and pay close attention to what you are doing. Once you learn the traditional tools, you will make fewer mistakes with them. I was using a skew today and got a catch. It had been a long time since I had gotten one. S__t happens. There will always be controversy over which type tools are the best even within a category such as scrapers. Many people only use one tool for almost everything. I have some favorites, but I also use different tools on the same project. I turn mostly small stuff.

You will get a lot of advice about which tools to buy. When I started wood working, I bought some cheapo tools but eventually upgraded. That even includes clamps. Oh if I was independently wealthy, I would have some really high quality tools. .

 

[Edgar]

Welcome from Alvin.
I have an HSS tool set and several carbide tools. I've experimented with gouges, skews and carbide round & R2 tools. They will all work for pen turning & it's largely a matter of preference.
Personally, I've pretty well settled on the R2 carbide tool for turning pens - both wood & acrylics. You do have to be careful when turning soft woods, but that's true for any tool.

 

[thewishman]

Hi Jane, welcome from Plano!

I agree with lathe centerline at elbow height as previously suggested.

No need to buy a bunch of cutting tools. I only use carbides and have taught 8 yr olds to turn using them without any difficulty or blanks blowing up. It is a sharp replaceable edge that you don't have to buy a bunch of equipment and learn yet another skill to obtain. Your choice of curved edge, radiused edge or nearly square. You can use a carbide tool on an angle as a skew, our use it flat as a scraper. Edges are about 65 cents each and will turn several pens.

No problems with wood or acrylic. Use it as a skew for rounding. You have total control over how aggressive you want your cut to be. I only lay it down flat for very fine scraping on my final passes. For pen turning, I literally use one single tool (4" radius square cutter) presented as needed to get the cut I want -- inside/outside curves, v-cuts, or straight cuts. I pick up a parting tool occasionally. That's it.

My goal when turning is to make what I want to make. I probably don't use proper techniques and I know I don't use tools the way they are meant to be used. I want to make pens - not worry about being a great turner. Carbide tools make my pen-making experience easier and more enjoyable.

 

[JasonC]

As far as tools I started with the Woodriver 5-piece set and moved on to Easy Wood Tool's mini rougher and mini finisher. With the rougher I can use the square carbide cutter or their R2 cutter. I'll often use only that rougher for the entire pen.

I used the rougher to turn the outside of a bowl from Brown Mallee burl cap cast in Alumilite for SWMBO. I did the inside with the finisher.

I recently picked up some M42 HSS tools from Carter and Son Toolworks. Spindle detailer, 1/8" parting tool, 3/4" roughing gouge, and a 5/8" bowl gouge. Super nice stuff that is overkill for pens but I've found useful on other projects. I regret not picking up their skew at 25% off. Could knock out pens with just that skew.

As nice as the Carter and Son tools are, when turning pens it's hard to not reach for the EWT rougher and use it start to finish.

I have a Trend 300/1000 diamond whetstone I will use to sharpen my carbide cutters instead of replacing them. Just put the cutter top-down on the stone and give it some figure eight passes.

 

[low_48]

I can't help but wonder how those Carter aluminum handles will be in the winter. It gets pretty cool in my shop, and my aging hands are not happy with extended cold. Not an issue for you in Hawaii, but I can't help but think of that here.

 

[shastastan]

Jason, those are beautiful tools. I got a set of 4 Harrison carbide tools. They came with a long and strong inter-changeable handle. It was too long for my setup and I didn't like having to change the handle all the time so I made a handle for each tool. Having separate handles is the way to go, IMO.

 

[CaptainJane]

for Jet 1221EVS, (walshjp17, and wwneko)

Thanks for the replies

Hey (walshjp17 and wwneko) and all Jet 1221 EVS owners - what is the distance on the Jet 1221 EVS from base to spindle center? I figure it is about 13 inches

My elbow measurement is 40 inches, so if the spindle center is 13, I would need a 27 inch tall benchtop - over 4 inches shorter than the Harbor Freight bench (but do-able I think) Unfortunately, the Husky box is much too high - but very nice. Plus, I would like to add wheels.

What wheels are preferred, and where to get them?

Thank you in advance.

Jane

 

[JasonC]

I can't help but wonder how those Carter aluminum handles will be in the winter. It gets pretty cool in my shop, and my aging hands are not happy with extended cold. Not an issue for you in Hawaii, but I can't help but think of that here.

I asked David (the Carter of Carter and son) about that when they were here for the Hawaii woodworking show at Woodcraft. David, Paul (the son), and Valerie were at the show. David said they guys say they (the handles) warm up as they're used. Makes sense since aluminum is a heat sink. The handles on these are 6061-T6, if I remember correctly.

You can also buy the M42 HSS tools separate. Each tool is machined from round stock so making your own handles would be simple. A great thing with those aluminum handles is that they add mass to the tool.

 

[wwneko]

The 1221vs bench to spindle center is a hair under 15 inches, 14 7/8s" is what I just measured. Like I said way to tall... I still haven't built a platform for myself, and it's very uncomfortable to turn at that height. I'd rather turn than build the platform though...
I recommend harbor freight for casters, they are good quality and even better price. I wouldn't put the bench/lathe on castors, takes away from the stability IMO. Plus it adds another 2 or 3 inches to your height issue.

 

[Glenn McCullough]

BE Prepared!!! Once you got the pen turning disease, you may never make another model anything again!!!

 

[Brian G]

Plus, I would like to add wheels.

What wheels are preferred, and where to get them?

Jane

My recommendation is double lock brake, swivel casters on all four corners. The double lock brakes keep the wheels from spinning and swiveling.

Examples are Double Lock Casters on Amazon

The swivels on all four corners make it easier to maneuver.

 

[low_48]

I can't help but wonder how those Carter aluminum handles will be in the winter. It gets pretty cool in my shop, and my aging hands are not happy with extended cold. Not an issue for you in Hawaii, but I can't help but think of that here.

I asked David (the Carter of Carter and son) about that when they were here for the Hawaii woodworking show at Woodcraft. David, Paul (the son), and Valerie were at the show. David said they guys say they (the handles) warm up as they're used. Makes sense since aluminum is a heat sink. The handles on these are 6061-T6, if I remember correctly.

You can also buy the M42 HSS tools separate. Each tool is machined from round stock so making your own handles would be simple. A great thing with those aluminum handles is that they add mass to the tool.

They warm up with time, but if using a tool like a parting tool for just a short use, it will stay cold. Not a fan.

 

[Bill in Buena Park]

Jane,
The HF bench is listed as 110 lbs, and the Jet 1221VS as 137 lbs; together, that's 247 lbs.

Depending on your mobility needs, have you considered the HF mobile base? I think this should work, provide stability when the footpads are down, and still give you a little over 50 lbs of tools and such before you reach capacity. You'd possibly have to take an extra inch in addition to your planned 4 inches (so 5 inches total) off the legs to accommodate the base.

 

[Wildman]

If turning parts for models just need a few basic HSS spindle tools. Might want to add things like beading tools, ¼" round skew, and thin parting tool. Homemade beading tools, round skew, or thin parting tool will work just fine.

Round Skew
Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Round Skew Chisels

beading tools
Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Bead Forming Tools

Mini drive centers or single step center;

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Mini 4-Prong Drive Centers

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Sorby Steb Drive Centers

For boat/ship hull & bodies making two at a time with two pieces of wood makes sense using paper glue joints. Carpenters glue & cardboard or paper that will not allow glue to seep thru will work.

May end up needing a drill chuck so can drill on the lathe. Depending upon what your truning or wanting to drill need a chuck for the headstock might get away with just one here are some options; 4-jaw chuck, collect chuck, pin chuck depending upon what you are doing.

Only thing did not mention is a pen mandrel & pen turning accessories.

 

[pfbarney]

The other thing not mentioned is way to sharpen your new HSS tools. If you already have the correct bench grinder and wheels for it, then all you may need is a good sharpening jig. However, if not, then you're looking at additional costs and time spent learning to sharpen. NOT A BAD THING mind you. That's how I started and I don't regret it a bit. BUT, if you want to spend more of your short time at home making stuff, you may want to go with the carbide tools just for the convenience. I have both. For pens I use carbide (mostly). For everything else I use HSS.

As for the HF bench, I have it and started with a mini lathe sitting on top of it. I think it would work fine for you, but you would need to have a platform to stand on. I think trying to cut down the legs would be more trouble than it's worth. Plus if you move on something later, you have a bench that is 5 or so inches shorter than standard. I will say it got annoying having to clean wood shavings out of the drawers though. The bench dog holes in the top go straight through to the top drawers. I would recommend a thin mat of some sort to cover the bench top. It would help with the shavings and also dampen possible vibration.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[CaptainJane]

Harbor Freight workbench / COUPONS!

I went ahead and bought a Harbor Freight workbench today.

I was looking for a coupon (mine was out of date) - and searched for Harbor Freight coupon. I found a 20% off coupon that appeared to be for online only, BUT when I asked at the store if the coupon code was good for in-store as well - they were perfectly agreeable to that.

The code was: 16041889
It is supposed to be good for the rest of November.

As far as the bench is concerned, it looks like it will not be too much trouble to shorten the legs.
Cutting them off at the bottom will be easiest (remove foot, shorten leg, screw foot back on), but will make the shelf almost floor level - and the shelf is not changeable.
Shortening from the top will involve unscrewing the top rail and side panels (that have the drawer slides attached to them), shorten, then screw side panels and top rail back on.
I have a chop saw with a stop that I can use to cut all the pieces identically.

As far as complaints about the drawers not extending very much - -
It looks to me as if there is a raised "titty" that stops the drawer, and if you mush it down a little, the drawer slide may extend further.

I still do not have my lathe yet. I work out of the country, and leave again before I could get one delivered. I am now waiting to see what Black Friday deals are available.

Jane