WHYYYYYYYYYYY (RANT)

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RAdams

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Why are the tubes for the Cigar kit different lengths? Is there a purpose for this? I mean other than the obvious answer of "Just to ruin beautiful blanks when you mount and turn the wrong half with the wrong bushings." I am absolutely sick of ruining amazing blanks because i thought i had the right tube, only to assemble the pen and find the refill sticking out a mile.

Has anyone ever made a cigar pen using two long tubes instead of the long, and the short? Well, actually thinking about it, I guess you need the short tube to engage the transmission turner thingy on the cap/finial.



I just finished half of a cast burl pen blank. It is duocrome green gold PR with natural edge Elm burl. I spent a couple of hours on this blank between making the blank, then CA glueing the air bubbles etc. turning, sanding, finishing blah blah blah. Totally impressed, and proud, I decided to go ahead and assemble the half i had ready. Put the refill in, and you guessed it.

The other half of the blank is still ok to make the bottom of the pen out of, but this "top" tube is turned and finished to the bottom specs, so it is too small... Any ideas on a save for the top half of the finished pen? Or should I just save the other half for a toothpick keychain or something??
 
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Hate to say this but you have no one to blame but yourself. If this was not the first time for your mistake and you didn't learn, I don't think you are going to get much sympathy:biggrin:

But if you want to wail away go ahead no one is listening:biggrin:

Mix an match my friend. Why people don't do it more is beyond me. You probably answered your own question as to what to do with it. Pay attention is the word of the day. Psst I am sure it has been done before and no one is going to live up to it though.:smile::smile::smile:
 
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I am dealing with a similar (but a little different) problem with the cigar, and came across this mod:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161

I haven't tried it yet, but by eliminating the center band and using the long tube for the top, and a second long tube for the bottom, I'm hoping it will work without having to shorten anything. I will still need to press the center band "bushing" into the inside of the top tube though to eliminate any slop. The clip will be a hair too big since that end of the blank is sized for the nib end, but I will likely turn a small "beaded washer" that would transition between the blank end and clip end. I know I won't get to mine until the weekend, but if you happen to try it before me, let me know how it works out.
 
Ron, I'm with Mike. Either cast in clear or build up one end with CA. Then sand it to the right length and use the correct bushings this time around...
 
John t.,

I am not denying that it is my fault. In fact, It is totally my fault. I should have checked one more time obviously. You are also correct in that this is not my first "backwards cigar". I have done it a time or two at least. I guess i am dumber than most, or just don't learn from my mistakes, or what ever other negative comment you want to make about my ability to repeat the same mistake numerous times. For me, making pens is a fun time, and my mind often wanders into contemplation mode and i coast. Sometimes, I do dumb s#%t while coasting. I actually checked to make sure i had the right tube, but obviously my coasting was a bit deeper than my ability to pay attention.

I wasn't asking for sympathy. i was asking for assistance, or maybe some discussion on possibilities, fixes, troubleshoots, etc. As opposed to "you suck" posts. If i wanted that type of reply, I would go to the other turning forums.

My post was more of a question to the engineering design aspects of the kit itself, and possibilities to salvage the blank. If the "big guys" are here listening, stealing our ideas, then why not hit them up about what we don't like, or understand about a kit? I was not ranting that i did it backwards. I make tons of mistakes, and have no need to point out my own downfalls. I was ranting about the tube lengths, and the design of the working parts of the kit.


PS. I think your reply was a fine example of why all the "what is happening around here" posts lately. Instead of trying to answer any of the questions, or even addressing the root of the thread, you simply pointed out my errors. Your post was a poor contribution to this site, but at least you did offer a bit of assistance when you suggested I mix and match the blank. Thanks for that at least.
 
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juteck said:
I am dealing with a similar (but a little different) problem with the cigar, and came across this mod:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161

I haven't tried it yet, but by eliminating the center band and using the long tube for the top, and a second long tube for the bottom, I'm hoping it will work without having to shorten anything. I will still need to press the center band "bushing" into the inside of the top tube though to eliminate any slop. The clip will be a hair too big since that end of the blank is sized for the nib end, but I will likely turn a small "beaded washer" that would transition between the blank end and clip end. I know I won't get to mine until the weekend, but if you happen to try it before me, let me know how it works out.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link! I will have to look closer at that, and see if i can cypher it out. If you get to it this weekend, please post a pic or two. If i get to it (I gotta make a couple of magic wands for the harry potter movie release customers first) i will post as well!
 
RAdams said:
juteck said:
I am dealing with a similar (but a little different) problem with the cigar, and came across this mod:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161

I haven't tried it yet, but by eliminating the center band and using the long tube for the top, and a second long tube for the bottom, I'm hoping it will work without having to shorten anything. I will still need to press the center band "bushing" into the inside of the top tube though to eliminate any slop. The clip will be a hair too big since that end of the blank is sized for the nib end, but I will likely turn a small "beaded washer" that would transition between the blank end and clip end. I know I won't get to mine until the weekend, but if you happen to try it before me, let me know how it works out.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link! I will have to look closer at that, and see if i can cypher it out. If you get to it this weekend, please post a pic or two. If i get to it (I gotta make a couple of magic wands for the harry potter movie release customers first) i will post as well!
Click to expand...

Seriously? that's awesome! I'd really like to see pics of those if you get around to it. I was a little ticked that they split the last book into TWO movies... THAT'S what you should be ranting about!!
 
Way to go RAdams my thought exactly,
this is why I usually just brouse the threads instead of posting that much, some people would rather point out just how stupid you are or may be then to just chuckly to themself and give a better responce or to just go on their way,,
hope you find a saluthion to the problem and sorry I can't help,

Happy Turning..
 
Russianwolf said:
recast in clear, then use the right bushings.

If they were the same length the pen would look funky.
Click to expand...

Great idea Mike. I never would have thought of it, but it makes perfect sense. You still get all the color, etc.

Thank you. A post like this is what makes IAP a great place.
 
WOW If you read the first part of your post I thought you were making fun of yourself.

Hey Ron it was an attempt at humor. No that is why this site has problems because people have such thin skin. Hope you do find an answer. I am sure I will make the same mistake too.

As far as complaining to the big guys. If you recall it was not long ago I started a thread with that very thing in mind and I was looking for complaints about kits hoping by some long shot someone with authority may read them.

Here is another suggestion. Maybe you can make an oops band and glue it to the lower section. Maybe you can make a kitless pen from what you are left with.

Good luck and I will try to hone my humor abit more. Do need to use more smileys I guess. :smile::biggrin::smile::biggrin::monkey:
 
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Actually John, I caught the attempt at humor. It reminded me of a scene in the movie "Talledaga nights", where Will Farrell starts a comment with "With all due respect" and explains that by him saying "With all due respect", it allows him to say whatever he wants to say with no repercussion. He goes on to explain that it is in the Geneva Convention. Pretty funny scene in a hilarious movie...


I actually tempered my reply to accomidate (sp) the "comedy". I am just aggravated that it has become fashion to say something ignorant, and surround it with "I hate to say it but...." and a handfull of smileys. I was guilty of the same thing... I used to say "Not tying to stir the pot, BUT"... KNOWING that i had the spoon in my fist and was whipping it like crazy.

I hold no grudges, against you or anyone else. I just wanted to use this opportunity to point out the validity of the recent uproar. I know you are a stand up guy (I still remember you from WR), and knew you would likely have a fairly positive outlook on what i said. Thanks for the excellent conversation! Seriously!! If we can't talk about what we think are the problems, then we are doomed to repeat them.

And thanks for the ideas about the "oh crap" bands! Some nice accenting colors might set it off. I could even put some on the other blank so they match!
 
Here's an absolutely crazy fix. This will be a personal pen if you do this. Just cut the refill shorter and use the short piece for the lower half. Then turn the long piece to the cap dimensions and assemble. You'll just have to customize the refill everytime you change it.

This is how Hillbilly Jones would do it:wink:
 
EBorraga said:
Here's an absolutely crazy fix. This will be a personal pen if you do this. Just cut the refill shorter and use the short piece for the lower half. Then turn the long piece to the cap dimensions and assemble. You'll just have to customize the refill everytime you change it.

This is how Hillbilly Jones would do it:wink:
Click to expand...

I think his problem is that he has two long pieces and NO short piece...
 
Ron,
I'm feel for you really I do. That kit forced me to learn how to do "oops" bands. Drives me crazy. I still like the kit, but it can be a pain sometimes. I have trimmed the refill too, but still......
 
Ron,

Yes, you can make a cigar with 2 tubes the same length. I have done it. I posted a mod that deleted the CB on a cigar a couple weeks ago. That mod is actually easier if both tubes are long tubes becasue the extra length is about the same as the CB so then the activator doesn't need to be shortened.

I bought some 10mm tubes from my local woodcraft that are for the cigar letter opener - they are actually a bit longer than needed, so I cut to length.

Here is the mod posting I made:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161
This uses the shorter upper tube tube, but in my pith pen (see thumbnail) I used the longer tube:
 

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soligen said:
Ron,

Yes, you can make a cigar with 2 tubes the same length. I have done it. I posted a mod that deleted teh CB on a cigar a couple weeks ago. That mod is actually easier if both tubes are long tubes becasue the extra length is about the same as the CB so then the activator doesnt need to be shortened.

I bought some 10mm tubes from my local woodcraft that are for the cigar letter opener - they are actually a bit longer than needed, so I cut to length.

Here is the mod posting I made:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161
This uses the shorter upper tube tube, but in my pith pen (see thumbnail) I used the longer tube:
Click to expand...

Did you thread your custom nib or glue it in place???
 
Depending on what bushing kit you buy, you either have 3 pieces or 4 pieces to keep track of on the cigar kit.

When I have new turners and present this kit to them, I take a sharpie marker and assign a number 1 through 4 on the bushings. If you have one of the 3 piece bushings, the middle piece will have two numbers on it, one on each end. I then take the instructions and have the student label which one should be appropriate for each piece of the blank on the instructions. Sometimes we use spray paint in different colors for the marks and no numbers. Either way, it gets the students used to what goes where, and they will use the labels for both the bushing and on the instructions in the future to not make the same mistake.

I use the cigar kit for several of the shell casing pens. I have had several end up with the long end as the back of the shell casing pen (DAMHIKIT) because I didnt take the time to set it up correctly. It makes for a much longer pen in my opinion, and just doesnt look right. I have done the oops bands for the cigars to fix them as well, but what I usually do is make the band for both the ends, it makes it a little less obvious that it was an oops, and sort of a design thing. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.....
 
Might have lost me a little. Are both pieces turned? If you only turned the long piece to the cap dimensions, you can get your other bushings out and turn to size. Then turn your short piece to size. This is assuming you only turned half the blank. But if you turned both pieces on a mandrel at the same time I got no answer for ya. I TBC so I only do half at a time, then check for fit.
 
WOO HOO! THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT!

Thanks for all the excellent replies! Lots of thinkin going on around here! I think i smell hair burning!!

I decided to go with the most rediculous fix i could imagine up!!

I had turned the short tube to the dimensions of the lower components, which left the entire blank too small in dia. to fit the center band. I went to my shop and completely disassembled all of the parts, and asked myself "W.W.T.D.". Hmmm.... I think They would find a way to mod the parts themselves as opposed to the blank.Tackle it from a different point of view.... The blank is fine, It is the parts that no longer fit. SO, I checked one end to the clip end, and it was a near match, Just some light re-sanding needed to get it to fit. The other end is where the center band goes, And now the CB is WAY too big, But i need something there to finish it off and protect the edge of the blank. I stuck the CB (minus the little gold ring) in a tube and mounted it in my drill chuck. I turned away the black paint and kept taking thin layers of metal off till i got it to the right dia. I did have to shorten the actuator a little, but it was a really fun repair that i think will really look sharp when it is all finished!

I really appreciate all the links, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, and conversation. It has been a fun exercise for me in troubleshooting!!
 
soligen said:
Ron,

Yes, you can make a cigar with 2 tubes the same length. I have done it. I posted a mod that deleted the CB on a cigar a couple weeks ago. That mod is actually easier if both tubes are long tubes becasue the extra length is about the same as the CB so then the activator doesn't need to be shortened.

I bought some 10mm tubes from my local woodcraft that are for the cigar letter opener - they are actually a bit longer than needed, so I cut to length.

Here is the mod posting I made:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70161
This uses the shorter upper tube tube, but in my pith pen (see thumbnail) I used the longer tube:
Click to expand...


That is a really really nice cigar pen! Very streamline and sleek!
 
Don't know the answer other than measure twice and cut once. I'm doing this for a hobby and to have fun. I refuse to let trivial mistakes like that take that away. If I can't think of a quick fix, I throw it in the S**t can and make another. :biggrin: JMO
 
I hope you work out a fix, but I won't be any help to you... I generally chuck 'em in the trash when I screw up(which happens more often than I'd like to admit). At work, everything has to be perfect, but in the shop, I've got the freedom to relax, turn up the music, and turn off part of my brain.

I actually sold one of the elm burl cast pens on a Jr. Gent this past week. I think you made a great looking blank with that combo. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
 
Check twice, turn once

RAdams said:
Why are the tubes for the Cigar kit different lengths? Is there a purpose for this? I mean other than the obvious answer of "Just to ruin beautiful blanks when you mount and turn the wrong half with the wrong bushings." I am absolutely sick of ruining amazing blanks because i thought i had the right tube, only to assemble the pen and find the refill sticking out a mile.

Has anyone ever made a cigar pen using two long tubes instead of the long, and the short? Well, actually thinking about it, I guess you need the short tube to engage the transmission turner thingy on the cap/finial.



I just finished half of a cast burl pen blank. It is duocrome green gold PR with natural edge Elm burl. I spent a couple of hours on this blank between making the blank, then CA glueing the air bubbles etc. turning, sanding, finishing blah blah blah. Totally impressed, and proud, I decided to go ahead and assemble the half i had ready. Put the refill in, and you guessed it.

The other half of the blank is still ok to make the bottom of the pen out of, but this "top" tube is turned and finished to the bottom specs, so it is too small... Any ideas on a save for the top half of the finished pen? Or should I just save the other half for a toothpick keychain or something??
Click to expand...

I'm really sympathetic but you know I have to check and double check everytime that I have the bushings placed correctly. If I depend on memory, i'm gonna be wrong about half the time. I suspect you better adopt a similar policy.
 
Jgrden said:
RAdams said:
Jgrden said:
I love reading the RAdams RANTS. I usually LMFAO.
Click to expand...


That is a compliment right??:biggrin:
Click to expand...
Yes, some of the predicaments you get yourself into are hilarious. Probably not funny to you, in fact some are not funny, but I laugh at the funny ones. Like this one.

Maybe I should shut up???
Click to expand...



By all means......... please don't!!

I enjoy the situations (Most of the time) that i end up in. That is how i learn to be a better pen maker. If i didn't mess up this pen, I would have never been forced to think of a fix. And if i didn't post about it, then others couldn't laugh at me!! I like the way it came out this time!! Give me a minute to post another reply, and upload my picture and i will attach it to this thread!!
 
David Keller said:
I hope you work out a fix, but I won't be any help to you... I generally chuck 'em in the trash when I screw up(which happens more often than I'd like to admit). At work, everything has to be perfect, but in the shop, I've got the freedom to relax, turn up the music, and turn off part of my brain.

I actually sold one of the elm burl cast pens on a Jr. Gent this past week. I think you made a great looking blank with that combo. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Click to expand...




Well after you see this fix, you may opt to quit throwing them away, and just do this little repair!! What color was the last Elm burl cast in? Do you remember?? I sure don't. This one came out really nice!

In fact, I have been trying to come up with a mod for a pen for you. I know you like Cigar pens as daily writers, so that was my goal. Now that i have modded a Cigar, I think it needs a worthy home!! Look for it in the next box of blanks headed your way!!!

Which leads me to this disclaimer / spoiler alert. I am going to attach a photo pf the pen to this thread on the next post. If you do not want to see it, then you may want to stop reading this thread now.






ONE






TWO






THREE






LAST WARNING




HERE IT COMES.......
 
Wow! Well, at least you know someone is listening. Good luck, can't wait to see the picture of the finished product.
 
Elm Burl cast in duocrome green/gold PR. Custom shaved center band minus trim ring. sanded to 600 paper, and to 12K MM. a few coats of thin CA to finish it off.
 

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Well, looks like a good fix. Probably not as fat either. Might have to experiment a little tomorrow in the shop.
 
Not near as fat!

If i were doing it again, I would shave down the other half of the center band some as well. To make it smaller than the top instead of the same size.


Ernie, your sig is too much man. I love deviled eggs!! I gotta find me one of those chickens!
 
That's a pretty good trick, Ron. I kinda like the way the brass shows through at the bottom. One thing though, if you want the brass to stay shiney, you may need to coat it with something.
 
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